Archived: Insiders Thread

[LembasBread]

Paidgeek,
the High Def Digest review of Surf's Up states that the TrueHD track is 16-bit. Are they incorrect (yet again) with regard to the bit depth on this title?

[Azumi]

hello Paidgeek,

Originally Posted by paidgeek

There are a few things that those critical of the latest Dracula transfer should know.

1. The new transfer was supervised. This means that a representative from Zoetrope was charged we checking the color correction to make sure it met with the intentions of Mr. Coppola.

2. The new transfer and color correction were not done hastily. This title was carefully planned for BD and we were given the full cooperation of Zoetrope to get it done right.

3. The masters used for the DVD versions of this title were not endorsed by Mr. Coppola, the BD version is. The color correction on the DVD releases was not what Mr. Coppola wanted, regardless of the fact that the elevated brightness in some scenes on the DVD can reveal something not seen on the BD.

4. The answer print of the film is darker than the Blu-ray (answer prints are the approved color timed result that release prints are supposed to match).

5. Mr. Coppola intentionally shunned digital special effects techniques on this film in order to get a result that had the look of the classic horror films. The optical effects lead to some dirt and softening of the master.

A great deal of time and effort went into the remastering of this film, so it is more than a little disappointing that fans would not just second guess the wishes of the person that made the film, but would judge some of the work as careless or incorrect? From what I have read on the forum, the issue seems to stem from the darkening or color adjustment of a few scenes that leaves the viewer with less discernable picture information than was visible on the earlier unapproved release. If your display is properly calibrated, then rest assured that there is information in the video on most titles that you are not seeing. It is your choice if you want to turn up brightness to reveal some dark detail that is not necessarily supposed to be revealed.

I suspect that if we originally released a Dracula with a darker image, then released the Blu-ray with a brighter one, then perhaps these issues would not have been raised. Just remember that the film is supposed to set a mood and tell a story, not dazzle you with the picture details in the shots with a darkened room.

I wish to comment on this, because I think that as the number of catalog releases in hi-def grows, we're bound to see more debates like this, especially if "shortcuts" and other liberties were taken when establishing the DVD look in the first place.

HD is providing a visual experience much closer to the film look, and the added resolution can easily become a double-edged sword. On one hand, studios can work closely with directors and use the added pixels to "restore" the visual narration that got lost in the DVD. But on the other hand, there's also the danger that studios digitally doctor the original movie to satisfy the consensus at large (less film grain, more edge enhancement...).

And given the fact that we are increasingly using our "homevideo visual memories", I think that it's pretty understandable that people do not remember how Dracula looked in movie theaters. Film reviewers should know better. But at the same time, we cannot assume that every single consumer has the entire collection of American Cinematographer and Cinefex at home.

As I'm a supporter of the "better safe than sorry" approach, I think that cases like Dracula could be a superb opportunity for film studios to educate people.

Paidgeek, do you remember the Criterion's LD releases of Lawrence of Arabia and Ghostbusters -- just to name a couple of Col releases? Those were the times where supplementals and director's cuts were dictated more by artistic motivations, rather than marketing opportunities.

So, when releases like Dracula are made, how about creating "meaningful" supplements, that will be able to teach audiences a thing or two on movies?

In retrospect, wouldn't have been wonderful to ask FF Coppola to make a short introduction before the main feature? And how about making a documentary on the before-after Dracula look? And even better - making a documentary on the making of the BD, which teaches us how the new transfer was made and how Zoetrope was involved.

You could even create a specific "director's collection", which would include catalog titles where directors were personally involved in the creation of the BD and great care was used for the transfer.

How about it?

[Rob71]

Originally Posted by Azumi

hello Paidgeek,



I wish to comment on this, because I think that as the number of catalog releases in hi-def grow, we're bound to see more debates like this, especially if "shortcuts" and other liberties where taken when establishing the DVD look in the first place.

HD is providing a visual experience much closer to the film look, and the added resolution can easily become a double-edged sword. On one hand, studios can work closely with directors and use the added pixels to "restore" the visual narration that got lost in the DVD. But on the other hand, there's also the danger that studios digitally doctor the original movie to satisfy the consensus at large (less film grain, more edge enhancement...).

And given the fact that we are increasingly using our "homevideo visual memories", I think that it's pretty understandable that people do not remember how Dracula looked in movie theaters. Film reviewers should know better. But at the same time, we cannot assume that every single consumer has the entire collection of American Cinematographer and Cinefex at home.

As I'm a supporter of the "better safe than sorry" approach, I think that cases like Dracula could be a superb opportunity for film studios to educate people.

Paidgeek, do you remember the Criterion's LD releases of Lawrence of Arabia and Ghostbusters -- just to name a couple of Col releases? Those were the times where supplementals and director's cuts were dictated more by artistic motivations, rather than marketing opportunities.

So, when releases like Dracula are made, how about creating "meaningful" supplements, that will be able to teach audiences a thing or two on movies?

In retrospect, wouldn't have been wonderful to ask FF Coppola to make a short introduction before the main feature? And how about making a documentary on the before-after Dracula look? And even better - making a documentary on the making of the BD, which teaches us how the new transfer was made and how Zoetrope was involved.

You could even create a specific "director's collection", which would include catalog titles where directors were personally involved in the creation of the BD and great care was used for the transfer.

How about it?

I'm not an insider, but that sounds like a good idea.

[MatrixS2000]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Esox

I’m in too much discomfort (knee) to give you guys any cryptic posts these days.
Read my last post carefully……. as it is as forthcoming and honest as I can be concerning this topic. It is not misleading at all, it is as sincere and as up-to-date info as can be publicly provided. I can’t elaborate any further.

All the references I made to PaulGo (who is from North Potomac) were simply idle chatter as my sis indeed lives in Potomac Falls down the street from one of the Marriotts and I did get a doctorate from Collegivm Georgiopolitanvm back in the day. I was just reminiscing with a fellow Blu-ray forum member (Paul).

He bolded "indeed"!

My secret decoder ring tells me this translates into the WB rumor being true!

PS - welcome back PM (not sure when you started posting again as I have been away also...glad your back though!)

[jknuss01]

Is the date of the original post actually correct ?

I took this as confirmation from one of his very first posts on this subject ..... I think people were too busy trying to figure out the cryptic stuff to notice

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by Azumi

hello Paidgeek,



I wish to comment on this, because I think that as the number of catalog releases in hi-def grows, we're bound to see more debates like this, especially if "shortcuts" and other liberties were taken when establishing the DVD look in the first place.

HD is providing a visual experience much closer to the film look, and the added resolution can easily become a double-edged sword. On one hand, studios can work closely with directors and use the added pixels to "restore" the visual narration that got lost in the DVD. But on the other hand, there's also the danger that studios digitally doctor the original movie to satisfy the consensus at large (less film grain, more edge enhancement...).

And given the fact that we are increasingly using our "homevideo visual memories", I think that it's pretty understandable that people do not remember how Dracula looked in movie theaters. Film reviewers should know better. But at the same time, we cannot assume that every single consumer has the entire collection of American Cinematographer and Cinefex at home.

As I'm a supporter of the "better safe than sorry" approach, I think that cases like Dracula could be a superb opportunity for film studios to educate people.

Paidgeek, do you remember the Criterion's LD releases of Lawrence of Arabia and Ghostbusters -- just to name a couple of Col releases? Those were the times where supplementals and director's cuts were dictated more by artistic motivations, rather than marketing opportunities.

So, when releases like Dracula are made, how about creating "meaningful" supplements, that will be able to teach audiences a thing or two on movies?

In retrospect, wouldn't have been wonderful to ask FF Coppola to make a short introduction before the main feature? And how about making a documentary on the before-after Dracula look? And even better - making a documentary on the making of the BD, which teaches us how the new transfer was made and how Zoetrope was involved.

You could even create a specific "director's collection", which would include catalog titles where directors were personally involved in the creation of the BD and great care was used for the transfer.

How about it?

I think the idea of having persons from the film talk about the title on the disc is a good one, but I'm not sure we can get all parties to agree to do this. On the other hand, I think that just having director or post supervisor comments in the package documentation would be a good thing and perhaps not so hard to achieve.

[David Forbes]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

I think the idea of having persons from the film talk about the title on the disc is a good one, but I'm not sure we can get all parties to agree to do this. On the other hand, I think that just having director or post supervisor comments in the package documentation would be a good thing and perhaps not so hard to achieve.

I think this is a great idea!

[Josh]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

I think the idea of having persons from the film talk about the title on the disc is a good one, but I'm not sure we can get all parties to agree to do this. On the other hand, I think that just having director or post supervisor comments in the package documentation would be a good thing and perhaps not so hard to achieve.

Paidgeek... please see my PM.

[ryoohki]

Originally Posted by LembasBread

Paidgeek,
the High Def Digest review of Surf's Up states that the TrueHD track is 16-bit. Are they incorrect (yet again) with regard to the bit depth on this title?

Yet it's easy to see with the PS3.. around 2.1mbits it'S 16bit, aroung 3.2 it's 20bit and around 4.4 it's 24bits

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Innerloop

For reference/comparison, what sort of hint did he post before the Paramount deal was announced?

This situation is not the same at all.
The Paramount thing was a done deal awhile back.

But for the record, in answer to your question...........

Back when I used to post on AVM$, I snuck this in on a codec challenge thread the day before the story broke (c.b. stands for crystal ball)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=124

Nobody ever commented because they had no idea what the hell I was talking about.

B.T.W. Golgot13’s first language is not English, so excuse his sentence structure.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by paidgeek

3. The masters used for the DVD versions of this title were not endorsed by Mr. Coppola, the BD version is. The color correction on the DVD releases was not what Mr. Coppola wanted, regardless of the fact that the elevated brightness in some scenes on the DVD can reveal something not seen on the BD.

Definitely, and that fact can not be overemphasized see the second paragraph of my post several pages ago......
(https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=3576)

given the prolific comparisons between the DVD and the Blu-ray editions.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by JTK

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d=1#post243736

Mods and insiders desperately needed in this thread.

lol,
The best part of your link is Lee’s spelling of the word “Strict”.

I think that the take home message here is how extemely tired of the format war early adopters are....... and they want it to end (one way or another) as soon as possible.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Hussla

Please PM or Paidgeek or any insider go in there and just set it straight, there IS NO ANNOUNCEMENT COMING!

I thought I already said that yesterday evening on this thread.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by stockstar1138

i know, i know, but he has squashed rumors in the past. and i don't feel like he has really squashed this one.

I have no information about any announcement (re. WB) coming today or anytime even in the near future for that matter.

If anything, the OP’s thread has backfired as it has given more visibility to this forum and probably added alot of new members.

Now I’ve got to go and visit my physical terrorist.

[stockstar1138]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I have no information about any announcement (re. WB) coming today or anytime even in the near future for that matter.

If anything, the OP’s thread has backfired as it has given more visibility to this forum and probably added alot of new members.

Now I’ve got to go and visit my physical terrorist.

thank you!

[lch]

erm..., what is physical terrorist ?
do you mean physical therapist ?

[paidgeek]

Originally Posted by LembasBread

Paidgeek,
the High Def Digest review of Surf's Up states that the TrueHD track is 16-bit. Are they incorrect (yet again) with regard to the bit depth on this title?

The THD track is definitely 24bit, LPCM is 16bit and the DD track is 640kbps.

[johnnyd1]

Originally Posted by lch

erm..., what is physical terrorist ?
do you mean physical therapist ?

No, he meant what he said !

[kamiller42]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I have no information about any announcement (re. WB) coming today or anytime even in the near future for that matter.

I kind of wish the "or any time even in the near future for that matter" was in your original post. That would have quelled a lot of anticipation.

Thanks for letting us now. It was a nice dream while it lasted.

[Papi4baby]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Now I’ve got to go and visit my physical terrorist.

i wish i had one of those rolling around smilies.