HDR Discussion Thread

[puddy77]

Vimeo now supports HDR10 HEVC. And unlike YouTube, they actually show a badge indicating the video has HDR. Unfortunately, like YouTube, I don't see a way to search for HDR yet.

It says it works on Apple products now. Hopefully support for Android/Chromecast and other apps are coming.

https://vimeo.com/blog/post/luminous...ty-hdr-arrived

[BrownianMotion]

Originally Posted by puddy77

Vimeo now supports HDR10 HEVC. And unlike YouTube, they actually show a badge indicating the video has HDR. Unfortunately, like YouTube, I don't see a way to search for HDR yet.

It says it works on Apple products now. Hopefully support for Android/Chromecast and other apps are coming.

https://vimeo.com/blog/post/luminous...ty-hdr-arrived

YouTube has a badge indicating HDR.

[puddy77]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

YouTube has a badge indicating HDR.

Yeah, I guess they do when you are watching on an HDR device. Maybe I should have clarified that they have a badge showing at all times, even on SDR devices. It identifies it as an HDR video, not just when you are watching it in HDR.

[BrownianMotion]

Originally Posted by puddy77

Yeah, I guess they do when you are watching on an HDR device. Maybe I should have clarified that they have a badge showing at all times, even on SDR devices. It identifies it as an HDR video, not just when you are watching it in HDR.

Fair enough.

It's good that Vimeo is supporting HDR now. Hopefully they make it available on more devices soon.

[oddbox83]

I can’t tell the difference between Dolby Vision and HDR10 on my LG 55850V. I believe this is because despite being Dolby Vision compatible the screen isn’t true 12-bit display. Are the B7/C7 OLEDs capable of true 12-bit colour? The reviews I’ve read don’t go into that sort of detail but I want to know.

[DanBa]

""We expect that only 23 percent of the ultra-high-definition televisions that ship in 2017 will offer the full HDR experience," IHS Markit analyst Paul Gray said. "The remainder will be able to decode a signal, but lack the high contrast capability to display HDR content to an advantage."

The cost of backlights for liquid-crystal displays (LCDs) remains the biggest obstacle to HDR, the analysis said."
https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2017...7-9mi-in-2021/



"The truth is that to be an HDR TV, you don’t need to be able to show the benefits of HDR. It’s true. All you need to do is to add the software so you can read the HDR information contained in a signal, and then use that to display an image. What this means is that you have HDR TVs that cannot show brighter highlights, that cannot show richer colors, and cannot do local dimming to improve contrast. It means that when you send an HDR signal to these fake HDR TVs, you will get an image that is virtually identical to an SDR image.

To truly show HDR content with benefits over SDR, a real HDR TV needs to have true local dimming, wide color gamut support, and produce highlights of 500-600 nits or brighter."
https://referencehometheater.com/201...nd-statistics/

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

YouTube has a badge indicating HDR.

Yes, sure. Rant coming: but the wider, MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM, is that you can't search for HDR on YouTube because they refuse to add a filter for HDR in their search as a technical parameter, like they do for other technical parameters.

99% of text matches for "HDR" on YouTube are SDR content videos either about HDR, photography, someone filming their HDR TV in SDR, etc.

Yet YouTube DO provide search filters for:

• 3D
• HD
• Subtitles/Closed Captions
• 4K
• Live
• 360°

etc.

Trying to find HDR content on YouTube is harder than finding a needle in a haystack. At least with a haystack that you can use a magnet.
It is an incredibly frustrating experience because you have to start Playback of each and every match to find out if it's HDR or not.

This problem is still dragging on now, a full YEAR after YouTube launched HDR support! It's as if they don't want people to find HDR content - and don't care.

If anyone reading this has contacts at YouTube, please can you give them a kick? Ta

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

At CAMERIMAGE 2017 (although I’ve been posting about the festival for years, be it in Club Penton or the 4K Movies Releases thread, here is some background for those unfamiliar – “Camerimage has become so established that, on the week of Nov. 11, any name cinematographer who isn't working is likely to be found in Bydgoszcz, Poland”- http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/beh...season-1031391 , and yes, we even have some native Polish membership here on Blu-ray.com),

a tip of the hat to Arri for providing this workshop, a how-to on HDR/WCG – https://camerimage.pl/en/wydarzenie/...ji-obrazu-hdr/ , which I think will fill the seating capacity.

Sony making its own news in Poland at Camerimage –

Official Press Release:
Bydgoszcz, Poland – 15th November: After a successful launch of the next generation CineAlta motion picture camera VENICE, and extensive conversations with filmmakers following the camera’s debut, Sony is responding to strong requests to implement Full Frame image capture from day one, in time for the shipping of VENICE in February 2018.

The feature enables filmmakers to realise VENICE’s full potential by utilising 24x36mm Full-Frame 6K recording in Sony’s established 16-bit acquisition format, X-OCN[i]. In addition to Full Frame image capture, Sony plans an extensive roadmap of features planned to be implemented in future firmware upgrades

“Sony’s development of the VENICE motion picture camera platform represents our commitment to the film industry in furthering image capture in the key areas of dynamic range, colour rendition and large format aspect ratio freedom. VENICE demonstrates our commitment to developing tools that support Directors and Cinematographers in bringing their vision to the screen”, said Claus Pfeifer, Head of Technical Sales, Broadcast & Cinematography, Sony Professional Solutions Europe. “This announcement reflects our strong relationship with filmmakers around the world and enables them to create Emotion in Every Frame.”

The VENICE CineAlta digital motion picture camera system is scheduled to be available in February 2018.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by oddbox83

I can’t tell the difference between Dolby Vision and HDR10 on my LG 55850V. I believe this is because despite being Dolby Vision compatible the screen isn’t true 12-bit display. Are the B7/C7 OLEDs capable of true 12-bit colour? The reviews I’ve read don’t go into that sort of detail but I want to know.

There are no 12-bit displays at this time. Just 10 and some 8's that pretend to be higher.

DV on disc is output at 12-bit 4.2.2, and the tv processor will adapt the signal to it's 10-bit display.

Note for Sony owners, the X-1 Extreme processor in their flagship models processes at 14-bit and adapts the signal to their 10-bit panels.
(DV update still in limbo being tested, hope to have by year end.)

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Yes, sure. Rant coming: but the wider, MUCH BIGGER PROBLEM, is that you can't search for HDR on YouTube because they refuse to add a filter for HDR in their search as a technical parameter, like they do for other technical parameters.

99% of text matches for "HDR" on YouTube are SDR content videos either about HDR, photography, someone filming their HDR TV in SDR, etc.

Yet YouTube DO provide search filters for:

• 3D
• HD
• Subtitles/Closed Captions
• 4K
• Live
• 360°

etc.

Trying to find HDR content on YouTube is harder than finding a needle in a haystack. At least with a haystack that you can use a magnet.
It is an incredibly frustrating experience because you have to start Playback of each and every match to find out if it's HDR or not.

This problem is still dragging on now, a full YEAR after YouTube launched HDR support! It's as if they don't want people to find HDR content - and don't care.

If anyone reading this has contacts at YouTube, please can you give them a kick? Ta

Nice rant! Ta, indeed...

[puddy77]

Originally Posted by puddy77

Vimeo now supports HDR10 HEVC. And unlike YouTube, they actually show a badge indicating the video has HDR. Unfortunately, like YouTube, I don't see a way to search for HDR yet.

It says it works on Apple products now. Hopefully support for Android/Chromecast and other apps are coming.

https://vimeo.com/blog/post/luminous...ty-hdr-arrived

Update. In the comments, a Vimeo staff member says they are working on an HDR search, HDR channels, etc...

Also, they didn't mention it in their main blog post, but they also support HLG HEVC uploads. Which I believe means people with certain cameras like the Panasonic GH5, the Sony a7RIII, and other Sony high end camcorders can upload directly to Vimeo straight out of the camera with no editing, mastering, transcoding, etc...

https://help.vimeo.com/hc/en-us/arti...ing-HDR-videos

[zmarty]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

you can't search for HDR on YouTube because they refuse to add a filter for HDR in their search as a technical parameter, like they do for other technical parameters.

A few months ago I had a chat with them about this and they said they won't do that until they ship HDR support on Desktop and HDR is widespread.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by gkolb

There are no 12-bit displays at this time. Just 10 and some 8's that pretend to be higher.

DV on disc is output at 12-bit 4.2.2, and the tv processor will adapt the signal to it's 10-bit display.

Note for Sony owners, the X-1 Extreme processor in their flagship models processes at 14-bit and adapts the signal to their 10-bit panels.
(DV update still in limbo being tested, hope to have by year end.)

Maybe for flat panels, but there are a few end to end 12 bit projectors on the market, mine included.

[Penton-Man]

FCC just voted to authorize the Next Generation TV broadcast transmission standard, as known as ATSC 3.0, Richard Paul et al should be especially happy .

[Robert Zohn]

Me too! I'm very very happy!

[crackinhedz]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

FCC just voted to authorize the Next Generation TV broadcast transmission standard, as known as ATSC 3.0, Richard Paul et al should be especially happy .

does that mean HDR over the air (broadcast tv)?

[Robert Zohn]

Yes, OTA, and OTT and IP.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Maybe for flat panels, but there are a few end to end 12 bit projectors on the market, mine included.

But the projektor doesn't do DV, shirley? So it can't take advantage of that 12-bit DV content anyway.

[PaulGo]

FCC approves TV technology that gives better pictures but less privacy

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1DG2XF

Rosenworcel: FCC Should Go Back to Drawing Board on ATSC 3.0

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/new...atsc-30/170078

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

FCC just voted to authorize the Next Generation TV broadcast transmission standard, as known as ATSC 3.0, Richard Paul et al should be especially happy .

Democratic Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel said the new technology would force consumers to buy new televisions. “The FCC calls this approach market driven. That’s right — because we will all be forced into the market for new television sets or devices.”


Ugh. This is why politicians should stay away from technology. First: 4K TVs are already on the market for a few years now. Second: most people get their signals from a device like a cable or satellite box. Third: you can get an adapter to receive an OTA ATSC 3.0 signal. Fourth: AFAIK there's no mandatory phase out like there was for NTSC->ATSC.