HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Thanks Penton-Man. We love Coroando and have visited several times. I'll try Alla Lucana, but my doctor recommends no Swordfish as it's high in Mercury. ):

Lots of goodies on the menu, while you’re looking out over the bay toward the Convention Center…. http://www.peohes.com/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

Some interesting sounding documents...

Since then, a few more have been input, e.g.….
https://www.itu.int/md/R15-WP6C-C-0205/en

[Penton-Man]

For those who missed the EclairColor demo last Oct. - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...w#post12826906

Coming up in several days at CinemaCon 2017 in Vegas is another opportunity -
http://pro.boxoffice.com/cinemanext-...017-las-vegas/

[Penton-Man]

Lunch break over...back to the day job.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

NAB

http://ultrahdforum.org/events/nab-2...for-the-forum/

[Robert Zohn]

Very ^ cool. I'll check this out, we're looking into streaming our 2017 TV Shootout in 4K.

Getting excited about my NAB presentation next month. I'm going to announce to the broadcasters the opportunity to have their FHD HLG content played across our TV Shootout wall so the judges can use FHD/HDR content as one of the elements to evaluate. Hopefully this will be an incentive to push them to begin to give us some HDR programming with the existing FHD infrastructure.

[DanBa]

Samsung's trademark application for HDR10 Plus filed in the European Union:
https://twitter.com/TheTMNinja/statu...72959378300928

[puddy77]

Originally Posted by DanBa

Samsung's trademark application for HDR10 Plus filed in the European Union:
https://twitter.com/TheTMNinja/statu...72959378300928

[Show spoiler]

Trademark? I just looked at the USPTO and noticed Samsung trademarked both HDR10 and HDR10 Plus. I'm not very knowledgeable of trademark law. So anyone know why they would trademark those terms? I thought the tech is supposed to be open source. Why would you trademark the name of an open source technology?

[Penton-Man]

Given the eye candy potential HDR has for animated content (if you click on the raw Cinematic Color VES pdf, it should automatically download to your device for further color science insights related to HDR presented way back in 2012)…..

at the risk of another joke about this franchise by my friend Geoff, I submit Smurfs: The Lost Village as a good content candidate for an HDR Ultra HD Blu-ray….

Smurfs: The Lost Village Official Trailer 1 (2017) - Animated Movie - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Very ^ cool. I'll check this out, we're looking into streaming our 2017 TV Shootout in 4K.

Getting excited about my NAB presentation next month. I'm going to announce to the broadcasters the opportunity to have their FHD HLG content played across our TV Shootout wall so the judges can use FHD/HDR content as one of the elements to evaluate. Hopefully this will be an incentive to push them to begin to give us some HDR programming with the existing FHD infrastructure.

Knowing how broadcasters are restricted/motivated by getting the best ‘bang for the bit’, e.g. this won the Best Paper Award for NAB 2015 – http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7514380/ ….which I actually empathize with given their business situation with regards to data, I think your announcement will be received well.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Knowing how broadcasters are restricted/motivated by getting the best ‘bang for the bit’, e.g. this won the Best Paper Award for NAB 2015 – http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7514380/ ….which I actually empathize with given their business situation with regards to data....

I will have little sympathy for them if not doing 4K HDR beyond the year 2020 <- when the next gen MPEG codec is planned to be completed and expected to provide a 50% bitrate reduction as compared to HEVC.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

color...

Is in the eyes of the beholder ….http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/...e-898894915670

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

color is in the eyes of the beholder….

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

On a little bit more of an advanced colorful note, I’ve often wondered how “subject cDa29” a functional tetrachromat (http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/326976 ) sees our world.

As well as dem eagles....http://www.livescience.com/18658-hum...le-vision.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

What’s critical here is not what the TVs measure, but what they look like (i.e. subjectivity rules), of course, in regards to movies, with the caveat that they are preserving creative intent and not adding on some consumer television eye candy processing changing the picture from what the filmmaker intended in the mastering suite.[/url]

I realize that for practical purposes, all of the following may not be possible for Robert’s 2017 TV Shootout (which, nevertheless, provides a great service and learning experience to consumers, as stated unequivocally - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post13303906), but to give folks an idea as to the strict scientific testing methods for the subjective assessment of the quality of television pictures recommended by the ITU, from Paragraph 2.5 of https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r...1-I!!PDF-E.pdf

“Observers may be expert or non-expert depending on the objectives of the assessment. An expert observer is an observer that has expertise in the image artefacts that may be introduced by the system under test. A non-expert (“naive”) observer is an observer that has no expertise in the image artefacts that may be introduced by the system under test. In any case, observers should not be, or have been, directly involved, i.e., enough to acquire specific and detailed knowledge, in the development of the system under study.

Prior to a session, the observers should be screened for (corrected-to-) normal visual acuity on the Snellen or Landolt chart, and for normal colour vision using specially selected charts (Ishihara, for instance). At least 15 observers should be used. The number of assessors needed depends upon the sensitivity and reliability of the test procedure adopted and upon the anticipated size of the effect sought. For studies with limited scope, e.g., of exploratory nature, fewer than 15 observers may be used. In this case, the study should be identified as “informal”. The level of expertise in television picture quality assessment of the observers should be reported.”

[batman2000]

when will dolby vision ultra hd blu rays start to come on the market?

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I realize that for practical purposes, all of the following may not be possible for Robert’s 2017 TV Shootout (which, nevertheless, provides a great service and learning experience to consumers, as stated unequivocally - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post13303906), but to give folks an idea as to the strict scientific testing methods for the subjective assessment of the quality of television pictures recommended by the ITU, from Paragraph 2.5 of https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r...1-I!!PDF-E.pdf
...”

"The colorimetry and other characteristics of film may give a different subjective appearance to studio camera pictures. If this affects the results, direct studio sources should be used, although this is often much less convenient."


The colorimetry and other characteristics of film may give a different subjective appearance to studio camera pictures: color appearance phenomena like Hunt effect due to tested TVs with different luminance capabilities?

"To illustrate the Hunt effect, Poynton suggested we think of the color of flowers in sunlight, then think of the color of those same flowers at twilight. The color of the flowers has not changed, but our perception of the colorfulness of them has – they don’t look as colorful in dim light.
His point: "If you capture the flowers in daylight and show on a display with only 300 nits of brightness, the flowers will look like they are captured at twilight."
Since displays cannot show the full dynamic range of the natural world, we have to apply "artistic intent" to alter the image to produce what is desired. In other words, if you want the flowers rendered at 300 nits to have the visual colorfulness that they did in sunlight, you have to add more color."
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1171


"direct studio sources should be used":

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

And with regards to another consideration offered to make thee TV shootout the best ever, I’ll kindly remind Robert and/or other silently lurking organizers of the event, of a recommendation I made last August (2016) for his upcoming shootout….

As an alternative to the X300 as a reference monitor for the shootout, you might be able to procure a Dolby 2000 nit LCD as shown here at SMPTE conference, but I wouldn’t recommend it because the black level is not that good. For your purposes, I would also not recommend the 4,000 SIM2 HDR display -



as a reference monitor for comparison to the consumer TV contenders.

[Canada]

I would love to see what Dolby Vision brings to the HDR table, once it hits. Is the Oppo BDP 203 the only UHD Blu-ray player that can do Dolby Vision right now.

[DanBa]

. Mobile HDR & Netflix:
"Netflix will use Google's VP9 codec, which means shows can be compressed more effectively without adversely affecting quality. Smaller file sizes, better quality when your on-the-go signal isn't so hot, plus less data used overall. It's a win-win situation

For now this update applies for mobile only, with content delivered in up-to-1080p at various bitrates depending on the quality of connection. Netflix, at this time, has no plans to release 4K content for mobile - that's reserved for TVs via smart apps, compatible set-top boxes and consoles.

Just because there's no ultra-high definition for mobile, however, doesn't mean the streaming service isn't seeking out ways to improve quality. Mobile HDR will be available for the LG G6 at launch, with Dolby Vision support, meaning 10-bit colour and enhanced maximum brightness compared to a non-HDR handset. Other devices will follow (some with HDR10 only, not Dolby Vision), but Netflix isn't say exactly what or when."
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1404...r-lg-g6-launch



According to a Dolby VP, "Dolby Vision is codec-agnostic. Today, it is integrated with H.264 and HEVC but others like VP9 or AVS+ are also possible if required in the future".
http://tech.firstpost.com/news-analy...ow-309996.html


. Mobile HDR Premium – Ultra HD Alliance: HDR format-agnostic



"If the human eye was a digital camera, it’s "data sheet" would say that it has a 60 pixels/degree at the fovea (the part of the retina where the visual acuity is highest). This is called eye-limiting resolution."
http://sensics.com/understanding-pix...ng-resolution/



http://phrogz.net/tmp/ScreenDens2In.....2,distUnit:in

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by batman2000

when will dolby vision ultra hd blu rays start to come on the market?

Three major Hollywood studios committed to releasing Dolby Vision Ultra HD Blu-ray titles in “early 2017”. So, depends upon what your definition of ‘early’ is and whether you and others feel that goal is now a moving target.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

the Hunt effect

Another effect well known among imaging scientists, but not so much with hobbyists is the Bartleson-Breneman Effect, i.e. a dark surround decreases perceived contrast. Scroll down to a description with pictorial illustration here - http://facweb.cs.depaul.edu/sgrais/color_context.htm