The Matrix 4K UHD (1999)

[Nothing371]

You know what Tony Soprano would have done to Cypher???

[OutOfBoose]

^Nothing. There are no horses in The Matrix.

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by benhoppel

Separation masters are usually 3 positive film elements (IPs) in black and white. When printed on colour negative film they render a duplicate colour negative.

I know there are three of them as each is sensitized to a different primary color, but I wasn't aware that they were positives. I thought they were black and white duplicate negatives.

[JohnCarpenterLives]

No blue= no deal.

I got rid of the Blu-ray and went back to DVD after that green mess.

[OutOfBoose]

Because the brown version is totally accurate, lol.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Yeah, I'm on the fence if I want the sequels. I never bought them on BD, but caught some of them on cable recently and they might be interesting to revisit especially on UHD BD. I would rather buy them separately so I can possibly just sell them off and just keep the first movie.

Reloaded is a worthy sequel and Revolutions is good for the last 30 minutes. That's really about it.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by singhcr

I know there are three of them as each is sensitized to a different primary color, but I wasn't aware that they were positives. I thought they were black and white duplicate negatives.

You can't dupe a neg off a neg AFAIK, the point of the YCM separations is for them to be recombined to print off a high-quality negative source. Combining three pieces of film means more grain of course, during the era of optical line-up this wasn't so much of a problem because of the inevitable drift and misalignment between the layers which would obfuscate the sharpness. But with the precise scanning and alignment of today's digital tech then grain management is sometimes necessary when recombining seps, particularly if layering seps back onto a scan of the actual negative to affect the reinvigoration of a certain colour.

[OutOfBoose]

I'm one of those that don't think that the sequels ruin the first Matrix. They had an interested idea of deconstruction of the first film. I just think they're poorly dramatized for the most part and rather underdeveloped/rushed, with plenty of redundant and self-referential action. But I love it's core concept. Quite anti-blockbuster. The imagery, music are great too. I'll gladly buy the sequels and the animated feature when they become available, unless WB screws-up video presentation.

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Reloaded is a worthy sequel and Revolution is good for the last 30 minutes. That's really about it.

Yeah, Revolutions is very nice in the second half.

[Geoff D]

I'm down with just having the first Matrix for now, I'm v. surprised that Warners didn't just do a trilogy set first off as that's what they did with HD DVD and BD, but after them Nolanses I guess they gotta scale back a little!

As Boosey said it's perfectly self-contained as a piece of filmmaking and although I do recognise the need for others to then continue the story I'm content with watching it now and waiting on the other two. There were four years between the theatrical release of the first movie and the sequels, after all. We coped perfectly well during The Great Matrix Sequel Shortage back in the day.

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

You can't dupe a neg off a neg AFAIK, the point of the YCM separations is for them to be recombined to print off a high-quality negative source. Combining three pieces of film means more grain of course, during the era of optical line-up this wasn't so much of a problem because of the inevitable drift and misalignment between the layers which would obfuscate the sharpness. But with the precise scanning and alignment of today's digital tech then grain management is sometimes necessary when recombining seps, particularly if layering seps back onto a scan of the actual negative to affect the reinvigoration of a certain colour.

Ah. I thought the separations were themselves the duplicate negative, not necessarily the source for a new one. You could make a duplicate negative using reversal film, but from what I know from comparing slides to negative film at least is that reversal film has significantly less latitude than negative film has which would not be an ideal preservation source.

Yeah, I suppose grain would be more pronounced with better alignment. Although I am surprised that it would be that objectionable considering the insanely low ISO of intermediate film. For example, Kodak Edupe is used to make duplicates of color transparencies and it has an ISO of 6. Considering that 50 or even modern 100 ISO film is essentially grainless (i.e. Fuji Velvia or Kodak Ektar or even Kodak Portra 160), I'd think the added grain wouldn't be too bad and would require very slight management at best. But then again you still have three copies of the grain of the OCN to pile on top of each other even if the intermediate adds none of its own, so I see your point. I have a tendency to ask and answer questions while I am writing

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm down with just having the first Matrix for now, I'm v. surprised that Warners didn't just do a trilogy set first off as that's what they did with HD DVD and BD, but after them Nolanses I guess they gotta scale back a little!

As Boosey said it's perfectly self-contained as a piece of filmmaking and although I do recognise the need for others to then continue the story I'm content with watching it now and waiting on the other two. There were four years between the theatrical release of the first movie and the sequels, after all. We coped perfectly well during The Great Matrix Sequel Shortage back in the day.

I think it a bit odd that they would not just release the entire trilogy in one go right away. I would be a little annoyed if I bought this and then had to buy it again in order to get the sequels a few years down the line.

Ahh, the early 2000s. Truly a difficult time without more Matrix action. I am shocked I lived through it!

[NARMAK]

The first Matrix movie is probably my all time favourite movie and can easily stand alone without the sequels and so I hope it gets a 5/5 video and audio remaster as well as the sequels just cause I'm a completionist lol

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by singhcr

Ah. I thought the separations were themselves the duplicate negative, not necessarily the source for a new one. You could make a duplicate negative using reversal film, but from what I know from comparing slides to negative film at least is that reversal film has significantly less latitude than negative film has which would not be an ideal preservation source.

Yeah, I suppose grain would be more pronounced with better alignment. Although I am surprised that it would be that objectionable considering the insanely low ISO of intermediate film. For example, Kodak Edupe is used to make duplicates of color transparencies and it has an ISO of 6. Considering that 50 or even modern 100 ISO film is essentially grainless (i.e. Fuji Velvia or Kodak Ektar or even Kodak Portra 160), I'd think the added grain wouldn't be too bad and would require very slight management at best. But then again you still have three copies of the grain of the OCN to pile on top of each other even if the intermediate adds none of its own, so I see your point. I have a tendency to ask and answer questions while I am writing

It's always great when people answer their own questions

Point taken with reversal but as you rightly say it cuts down your range considerably (which is why movies aren't typically filmed on reversal stock) so it would not be ideal for duping a negative which can have a huge amount of range.

The thing about seps is that they're not generated using fine-grained intermediate stock but actual black and white stock, reason being that there's no colour dye, just silver, and as these silver records don't fade then they're far more robust in the longer term for preserving colour. Each of these B&W records is coated with the corresponding colour for printing as if it were a layer in conventional film, so the blue record is coated with yellow, red with cyan and green with magenta. contact printed with an RGB light to intermediate stock to recombine the image and create a new dupe neg in the photochemical world. When thusly combined you get the original colour back and this is why seps are so important a tool in digitally restoring faded negative.

[edit] I keep mentioning Spartacus' restoration but the seps were still able to yield a massive portion of the original colour after all this time while the yellow layer had almost completely gone on the negative. The seps themselves weren't perfectly aligned of course, they'd all suffered a certain degree of shrinkage (shrinkage unique to each sep) which is what makes re-aligning them such a PITA even in the digital domain, but that we can do it at all is thanks to the powah of modern restoration tech. For the 1991 photochemical restoration RAH had to make do with optically realigning the 8-perf 35mm seps as best he could and outputting to 65mm internegative using a special anamorph to reverse the slight 1.5x Technirama squeeze.

[Scottie]

Database entry

[tyrok]

Lets hope Warners is smart enough to realize that putting the sequels out later is a bad idea. They will sell much better in a box set or if they're readily available to people who only intended to buy the first one.

[OutOfBoose]

Maybe the other two aren't ready...

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by tyrok

Lets hope Warners is smart enough to realize that putting the sequels out later is a bad idea. They will sell much better in a box set or if they're readily available to people who only intended to buy the first one.

The other two films are complete horse dung. I wouldn't buy a set if that's the only way to get the first.

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The thing about seps is that they're not generated using fine-grained intermediate stock but actual black and white stock, reason being that there's no colour dye, just silver, and as these silver records don't fade then they're far more robust in the longer term for preserving colour. Each of these B&W records is coated with the corresponding colour for printing as if it were a layer in conventional film, so the blue record is coated with yellow, red with cyan and green with magenta. When combined you get the original colour back and this is why seps are so important a tool in digitally restoring faded negative.

Yup, that's true. The seps are B&W but they are also intermediate/copy stock, just black and white rather than color as you lose a lot of highlight information if you attempt to use standard black and white film as copy film. As you pointed out, metallic silver is extremely robust and should last a long time with proper storage, especially with modern ESTAR/polyester backing as opposed to nitrate or acetate.

So for color is each film strip coated in a dye, or just standard B&W copy film that has been exposed to a color filter like the three strip Technicolor process?

[reanimator]

I'm happy with only the first MATRIX. If they want to drop more Wachowski films to UHD, start with BOUND then give me SPEED RACER.

[dyne]

Originally Posted by reanimator

I'm happy with only the first MATRIX. If they want to drop more Wachowski films to UHD, start with BOUND then give me SPEED RACER.

Speed Racer in HDR would be eye melting.