The Studio Ghibli (JP) Discussion Thread

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by deschain

Lasseter is great too "but its not the success of his films that has so profoundly effected animators, film makers and audiences around the world, its the artistry of his films" what an apt statement considering wind rises lost the oscar and frozen won based almost purely success and hype heh heh heh

You do realize John Lasseter was the main producer of Frozen, right?

[solesupremebeing]

Originally Posted by GC Riot

If that's what you got out of the film then you've REALLY missed the point of it.

Well, if that's your idea of feminism then gender equality really is a distant dream. I know that the gender divide is huge, but when people consider Frozen to be feminist and progression, than it really emphasises how bad things are.

[deschain]

Originally Posted by GenPion

You do realize John Lasseter was the main producer of Frozen, right?

You do realise the only reason Miyazaki got the award is because of Lasseter? Think about it.

If you were to ask Lasseter which film deserved the oscar more what would he say? He made the oscar happen because of the incorrect result.

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by solesupremebeing

Well, if that's your idea of feminism then gender equality really is a distant dream. I know that the gender divide is huge, but when people consider Frozen to be feminist and progression, than it really emphasises how bad things are.

So, because the story featured any romance at all it's somehow not a feminist movie to any degree? The focal point of the story was on the relationship between Anna and Elsa and on their own respective journeys. It was about coming to terms with yourself (Elsa accepting that she had these uniquely different qualities about herself -- her ability to control ice, snow, etc. and to make good with these skills) and accept that it didn't make her an outsider to her family, having friends, etc.

It was also a more interesting take on a Disney story having the first "guy" character turn out to be a total jerk, and having Anna realize on her own who the good characters were, and start to have feelings for Kristoff, but without it being the focal point of the story... the story was mainly about family and the sibling relationship between Anna and Elsa. And both were incredibly strong minded characters.

The reason someone would say it has a feminist angle is because it definitely is a strong girl-empowerment movie with the lead characters being strong, smart, and having their own say in their lives, world, etc. It's not just some story about Anna falling in love with a prince and getting some typical happy ending after swooning over said prince. As I said, this is Anna and Elsa's story. Even though the ending is happy, it wasn't a story that unfolded exactly as audiences predicted.

[solesupremebeing]

Originally Posted by GenPion

So, because the story featured any romance at all it's somehow not a feminist movie to any degree? The focal point of the story was on the relationship between Anna and Elsa and on their own respective journeys. It was about coming to terms with yourself (Elsa accepting that she had these uniquely different qualities about herself -- her ability to control ice, snow, etc. and to make good with these skills) and accept that it didn't make her an outsider to her family, having friends, etc.

It was also a more interesting take on a Disney story having the first "guy" character turn out to be a total jerk, and having Anna realize on her own who the good characters were, and start to have feelings for Kristoff, but without it being the focal point of the story... the story was mainly about family and the sibling relationship between Anna and Elsa. And both were incredibly strong minded characters.

The reason someone would say it has a feminist angle is because it definitely is a strong girl-empowerment movie with the lead characters being strong, smart, and having their own say in their lives, world, etc. It's not just some story about Anna falling in love with a prince and getting some typical happy ending after swooning over said prince. As I said, this is Anna and Elsa's story. Even though the ending is happy, it wasn't a story that unfolded exactly as audiences predicted.

A strong girl-empowerment movie? Oh my, this world is doomed!

One sister is a yet another stick-thin Barbie, yet again perpetuating the idea that women need to conform to that ideal of beauty. The other is a clumsy bimbo who loses her family's kingdom because she gets played by a guy she falls in love with on their first meet! Empowerment?! That's what you call empowerment? The same girl then needs rescuing by another man she falls for. But yes, it's feminist because the film features two family members who love each other. How revolutionary and outstanding!

[deschain]

Originally Posted by GenPion

The reason someone would say it has a feminist angle is because it definitely is a strong girl-empowerment movie with the lead characters being strong, smart, and having their own say in their lives, world, etc. It's not just some story about Anna falling in love with a prince and getting some typical happy ending after swooning over said prince. As I said, this is Anna and Elsa's story. Even though the ending is happy, it wasn't a story that unfolded exactly as audiences predicted.

Seems to me your flawed reasoning is because it's not the usual predictable Disney it gives frozen oscar merit. Not being chauvinistic does not make it a feminist film.

I think an issue here is some people are getting caught up in the hype over an average Disney offering, seriously tangled was more entertaining.

Gen some times I feel like screaming at you "have you ever seen a ghibli film?!?!?"

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by deschain

Seems to me your flawed reasoning is because it's not the usual predictable Disney it gives frozen oscar merit. Not being chauvinistic does not make it a feminist film.

I think an issue here is some people are getting caught up in the hype over an average Disney offering, seriously tangled was more entertaining.

Gen some times I feel like screaming at you "have you ever seen a ghibli film?!?!?"

Why yes, I have seen Ghibli films many, many, many times.

I think we should drop discussion of Frozen in this Ghibli thread. I think it's pretty clear some of us loved it and others didn't. I don't want us to derail things in the Ghibli thread more.

[deschain]

Originally Posted by GenPion

Why yes, I have seen Ghibli films many, many, many times.

I think we should drop discussion of Frozen in this Ghibli thread. I think it's pretty clear some of us loved it and others didn't. I don't want us to derail things in the Ghibli thread more.

Ok let's drop this convo on a positive, Something that we can both agree on.. The wind rises should have won last years best animated feature oscar :P

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by deschain

The wind rises should have won last years best animated feature oscar :P

[sharpshooter720]

Any news on when Kaguya is coming out on blu-ray with English dubs in the US?

[DanielMann]

John Lasseter Honors Hayao Miyazaki at the 2014 Governors Award

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93-gRTUrHa8

Hayao Miyazaki receiving his award

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZIG14mxB9w

[Girls With Guns]

hey, deja vu! (see a dozen posts back...)

[DanielMann]

Originally Posted by Girls With Guns

hey, deja vu! (see a dozen posts back...)

Ahhhh, so it has been posted...LOL, Sorry, didn't see it up there before

[sharpshooter720]

Originally Posted by deschain

I don't get how you quantify that decades of rescue the princess bullcrap followed by a film where that doesn't happen makes it worthy of an award. "ohh disney have ended the cycle! quick give them an award!!!" the film should win on its own merit not because of its makers history the same way that the wind rises shouldn't win just because its a Miyazaki film.

Im not arguing with you that Frozen had feminist qualities I'm just saying it shouldn't win just because they've finally broken the cycle of predictability.
disregarding the non male hero element my over all opinion of Frozen (which you don't have to respect either ) was that every other part of the film was entirely predictable and average as disney features go.

Broken the cycle? What about Mulan? Tangled? Brave? Not trying to hijack a Ghibli board with Disney stuff, but the Frozen discussion relative to The Wind Rises is pretty flawed on both sides. My personal opinion aside, one would have to understand why Frozen was recognized above any other animated film by "this" academy. For those that don't have faith in the merit of the Academy, this victory or loss shouldn't matter.

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by sharpshooter720

Broken the cycle? What about Mulan? Tangled? Brave? Not trying to hijack a Ghibli board with Disney stuff, but the Frozen discussion relative to The Wind Rises is pretty flawed on both sides. My personal opinion aside, one would have to understand why Frozen was recognized above any other animated film by "this" academy. For those that don't have faith in the merit of the Academy, this victory or loss shouldn't matter.

I agree, Frozen is certainly not the only film to have those kinds of merits. I just think it does have them and that the posters on here who are so easily feeling a need to disregard it are wrong on it's merits.

Back to Ghibli... the John Lassetter speech gave me chills. What a wonderful and gracious speech. His love for Miyazaki films was pouring out of his soul.

Miyazaki's acceptable was also very sweet and humble. You could tell he felt deeply honored by the reception at the awards.

[deschain]

Originally Posted by GenPion

I agree, Frozen is certainly not the only film to have those kinds of merits. I just think it does have them and that the posters on here who are so easily feeling a need to disregard it are wrong on it's merits

Heh heh heh couldn't help yourself!

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by GenPion

Back to Ghibli... the John Lassetter speech gave me chills. What a wonderful and gracious speech. His love for Miyazaki films was pouring out of his soul.

Yes, i can't understand why while these people admire the work of Miyazaki and are blown away by it, they have dismissed completely hand-drawn animation!

[disneywildcat]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

Yes, i can't understand why while these people admire the work of Miyazaki and are blown away by it, they have dismissed completely hand-drawn animation!

In Ed Catmull's book "Creativity Inc.", the Disney/Pixar Animation President did express some regret that The Princess and the Frog did not perform better. Although Catmull did admit some mistakes (scheduling the release on the weekend of Avatar's weekend, the "Princess" title, etc.), he did note that it sent a mixed message to the animators on the direction of Disney Animation in terms of whether Disney Animation was going back to traditional animation or continuing with CG animation. And that while they wanted the filmmakers to drive the story of the film (rather than "creative" executives), they also wanted the filmmakers to feel free to use whatever animation method they felt suited the project. Of course, now Disney Animation now has very few 2D animators left on staff (Mark Henn and Eric Goldberg are the most notable animators left), so it's hard to say how true that is.

Also, the last two Disney Animated films (Princess and the Frog, Winnie the Pooh) in traditional animation did employ some off the shelf animation systems (like Toon Boom) rather than CAPS and Deep Canvas, and some elements of the animation process were outsourced to other studios.

I do wonder if Studio Ghibli does survive as a traditional animation feature production studio, besides possibly going to a contract hiring style, will Studio Ghibli have to outsource some elements of production to other studios (as some Japanese anime studios have done)?

[deschain]

Well I know in the past Ghibli have outsourced work to Korea and it sounds like they will again in the future. I think work for spirited away was done in Korea and possibly mononoke when they were really behind.

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

Yes, i can't understand why while these people admire the work of Miyazaki and are blown away by it, they have dismissed completely hand-drawn animation!

If it were not for Lasseter, The Princess and the Frog would not have been made. Though he has a big influence at Disney he does not ultimately have power over financial decisions which are governed by executive at the top of Disney's financial chain. He does not run Disney, even though he is heavily involved. Lasseter wanted Disney to continue to produce traditional animation, but when the box office was disappointing for the film the studio decided to close the traditional animation studio of Disney.

Though I do wonder why Pixar has never invested in maybe developing a branch of traditional animation. He could do that as the president of Pixar.

He once talked about wanting Pixar to become it's own entity entirely and make live-action and traditional animated movies. So far the only thing outside of CG animation they have done is helped finance John Carter with Disney (though you'll notice the Pixar name is never shown). Most of that had to do with it being the idea and live-action debut of a Pixar director, though. Maybe after Disney secured Pixar as a studio staying with the company, stipulations prevent some of these things from happening... but I have no idea. I'm also sure if it was up to John Lasseter all of Miyazaki's films would get wide releases and not the direct-to-DVD some have had. I think he does what he can but isn't the only one with power over these decisions so it's a bit of a battle with some of the executives whose primary interest in Disney is revenue generating.