Superman: The Movie 4K UHD (1978)

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by Ben_UK

I know its been said before, but would love to see an officially WB sanctioned SII "Final Cut" or something with all the Brando scenes put back in and whatever Lester scenes needed to be added in to make a complete coherent film. Its always going to be a compromise since Donner never completed it but the Donner Cut threw out too much and much of what was inserted, looks amateurish and cheap.

Originally Posted by ravenus

I doubt there can be a WB sanctioned cut, because too many of the people involved, including Donner and Ilya Salkind might object to it (I expect Lester is too cool to make a fuss).

This has been asked before (by me and others), but who gets to decide what would be included in a "Final Cut" at this point? Donner and Mankiewicz are gone, Lester retired from filmmaking and public life long ago, and Ilya Salkind basically has, too.

And as we've seen in this thread and others, if you ask 10 different fans what they think, you'll get about 50 different opinions. I really don't see much use in trying to reconcile all of that in an official release. The people involved in the actual production of the film have had their say, for better or worse. It's done.

An interesting case study is Paul Seydor's attempts at a speculative "final cut" of PAT GARRETT AND BILLY THE KID. Both times he drew upon decades of research into the film and its creation, and for the second, he even included one of its original editors in the process. And he's still been excoriated relentlessly by many of the film's fans for not doing it "right," or for even presuming that he could do it at all. You just can't win.

And at some point, you have to let go and let it be (or do your own fan edit ).

[motorheadache95]

Yeah I have to agree that the Donner Cut is what it is and that’s fine with me. It’s not trying to be a “definitive” cut of the movie, it just gives you what Donner shot, keeps the minimum amount of Lester footage to make the story coherent, and that’s it. All these ideas about flashback dialog and stuff sound like clever ideas for a cool fan edit of someone trying to combine their favorite footage of either version but I wouldn’t have wanted that in the actual cut, I just want to see Donners footage.

[hanshotfirst1138]

The Donner Cut is 2/3rds of a movie. It just kind of is what it is. Aspects of it are genuinely great, but it’s more a glimpse of what could’ve been than a complete work.

[TylerDurden389]

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138

The Donner Cut is 2/3rds of a movie. It just kind of is what it is. Aspects of it are genuinely great, but it’s more a glimpse of what could’ve been than a complete work.

Vudu aired the Donner Cut of 2 once several years ago, and they not only re-instated the entire East Houston, Idaho sequence, they even added in the 2 deleted scenes where Non kills the boy that tries to escape on horseback and the Suffle' scene (Superman cooks it in 8-10 seconds with his heat vision before him and Lois have dinner).

The biggest change of all, something no other version has is when Eve finds the toilet in the FOS, they added a flush sound and her screaming and it fades away as Lex smiles (pretty sinister when you think about it. But hey, at least one version of this flick explains why she's not around for the rest of the film, lol).

There was probably some other changes as well but they were very minuscule compared to those 4 things. Either way, having that stuff re-instated, IMO, bumps it up from 2/3 of a movie, to about 3/4 of a movie, lol.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by TylerDurden389

The biggest change of all, something no other version has is when Eve finds the toilet in the FOS, they added a flush sound and her screaming and it fades away as Lex smiles (pretty sinister when you think about it. But hey, at least one version of this flick explains why she's not around for the rest of the film, lol).

Which is more toilet humor than anything Lester came up with in Superman 2 and 3 combined.

[Kamdan]

Originally Posted by ravenus

Which is more toilet humor than anything Lester came up with in Superman 2 and 3 combined.

And cringer than any gag Lester came up with. Should have just left it as it was in Restored International Cut, which was more than likely edited under Lester’s direction.

Thau tried to bullshit his way saying the Donner footage in the theatrical II was edited by Baird, but The Making of Superman II features John Victor-Smith cutting together the final Fortress scene using Donner’s footage.

Thau also tried to dismiss his first superior Donner Cut that got leaked to streaming sites instead of owning up to it as the first assembly. It’s painfully obvious judging from Donner’s interviews and commentary that he saw this version and asked for material like the soufflé and the boy getting killed by the police siren cut out, sorely because they’re Lester scenes.

[motorheadache95]

Why would they want those scenes left in the Donner Cut? They’re Lester’s scenes, and he didn’t even end up using them in the theatrical cut.

I do want that extended TV cut, though.
That’s the version I grew up watching recorded on a tape.

[Bourne1886]

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138

The Donner Cut is 2/3rds of a movie. It just kind of is what it is. Aspects of it are genuinely great, but it’s more a glimpse of what could’ve been than a complete work.

I love it more than the theatrical cut even with all its glimpses into what could have been to this day.

[Kamdan]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

Why would they want those scenes left in the Donner Cut? They’re Lester’s scenes, and he didn’t even end up using them in the theatrical cut.

I do want that extended TV cut, though.
That’s the version I grew up watching recorded on a tape.

They’re good bridging scenes for the narrative to flow and keep the threat of the villains still going. Without those, it’s rather abrupt to go from confronting the sheriff and deputy to suddenly being national news material. Again, this an inherent problem with the Mankiewicz script where the villains simply confront Texas Rangers, find out they need to see the president, Zod makes his speech on the Washington Monument while the others destroy world monuments and then they take over the White House.

Something that was severely disappointing to learn was that there was an under estimation of what Donner completed. There should have been no Lester material of Superman and Lois’ date in the Fortress since that was one of the first sets they build and had to strike. For whatever reason, those scenes weren’t completed and we were stuck with what we’d seen already. Again, Donner was hardly interested in making something that could stand alongside Superman: The Movie. He just heard about the response the Restored International Cut had and just handed the task off to Thau for him to complete and sign off on for Superman Return’s promotion.

[Shane Rollins]

I still can't get over Superman 4 having a definitive release while 1 and 2 have issues on every single copy.

And 4 has the 1987 theatrical cut on both formats, plus most if not all deleted scenes. 1 hasn't had its 1978 theatrical cut on anything since VHS and laserdisc, and I'm sure if I looked hard enough there's still some scenes missing from the copies.

This is a crown jewel, so I have no clue why Warners can't be bothered to let someone with brain cells do the film right.

[Dr. T]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

1 hasn't had its 1978 theatrical cut on anything since VHS and laserdisc

What? The theatrical cut has been issued on DVD (in 2006), Blu-ray and UHD.

[Dsneybuf]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

I still can't get over Superman 4 having a definitive release while 1 and 2 have issues on every single copy.

The 2011 disc of Superman IV down mixed the audio from 2.0 surround to 2.0 stereo, then the 4K disc used early takes of the score in the Atmos soundtrack.

[Dr. T]

Originally Posted by Dsneybuf

The 2011 disc of Superman IV down mixed the audio from 2.0 surround to 2.0 stereo

That's not a thing.

[TheOneWithThePrize]

Originally Posted by Shane Rollins

This is a crown jewel, so I have no clue why Warners can't be bothered to let someone with brain cells do the film right.

They would have to find someone at Warners with brain cells to come up with the idea in the first place.

[Shane Rollins]

Originally Posted by Dr. T

What? The theatrical cut has been issued on DVD (in 2006), Blu-ray and UHD.

I have the 2006 DVD and both 4Ks. I don't have the Blu-ray, so I toss to someone who does.

None of the discs I own have the 1978 theatrical cut. They come close, but have issues.

All of them use the 2000 color timing and effects enhancements, which keep Superman's costume the same color (it faded from blue to shades of blue, teal, and green; and from red to shades of red, pink, and orange during the unaltered scenes), remove wires, and smooth over mattes. In addition, the DVD has a 5.1 mix created in 2000, which is not even remotely close to either of the three original mixes (six track (LCRS+Baby Booms), 4/2/4 Dolby Stereo (most say the LCRS tracks in the six-track mix are 1:1 versions of the Dolby Stereo mix, but I haven't verified this), and mono). The first 4K contains the old 5.1 mix and a better Atmos mix, but no original sound. The second 4K includes a DTS-HDMA 2.0 track, but I have no clue what it even is.

So unless there's a miracle Blu-ray I haven't heard of, the last US release I can find is the 1994 Warner Bros. Family Entertainment VHS in the clamshell (very common). No widescreen VHS showed up in the US, for reasons unknown. The last widescreen copy in the US is the 1990 laserdisc, which I don't have. There's also a 1995 laserdisc from Japan, about which LDDB user oliver_uk said this:

The last pressing of Superman: The Movie on LaserDisc. Best version to own of the original film. Superior to the US Pioneer pressing [12030 A/B], plus comes with original teaser trailer at the end of side 3.

So my money's on either of those laserdiscs, because WB pulling their heads out...frankly, we have a better chance of finding Jimmy Hoffa sipping a margarita in Jamaica.

[Dr. T]

Your definition of "theatrical cut" is puzzling. The current UHD has the 143 minute theatrical cut of the movie. There is no footage missing or additional footage. The Atmos track is a remix, best to be avoided, but the 5.1 track on the 2018 disc is original, as is the anemic 2.0 track on the repressing.

To state otherwise is incorrect.

[Martoto]

Just let WB leave Superman II alone. We got a great sequel when it was released in 1980 despite the troubled background. We got a look at what Donner intended. We got a look at what he shot that the Salkind's cheapskated on (Brando) and we saw what Donner would NOT have done (the Lester parts he cut). I don't think we can realistically demand more from the owners of the movie. There's always fan edits. Stick Krypto in there making a souffle if you like. And why shouldn't you?

[david_blu]

I think as most people have said if they release the extended TV cut of Superman II then we can close the book. That feels like it has the best extension of scenes and the best takes used. Also seeing some of that stuff in widescreen finally would be great.

I worked out I think there is about 20 minutes of stuff still there not covered by either the Donner or Lester cuts or the deleted scenes. The Concorde scene is the clear example, but there are several other bits dotted about that arent much but added up still make for a sizeable chunk not seen in widescreen.

[Mick B]

Hi,
I too would love a bluray copy of the extended Superman II. I am surprised WAC have not released it yet as its been a few years now since STM got released and I believe that sold well.

With regard to SII. It would be nice if WB could ask Richard Lester to do a commentary track for SII as that would be interesting. I think I read somewhere that he is not interested, but it would still be a great extra for the fans.
It would have also been great if WB had sorted some of the bad FX in SII the same was they sorted the ones in STM back in 2000. Not on about changing anything, just sorting several of the bad mattes. Lucas did it for Star Wars etc. SII deserves similar treatment. Didn't really mind BITD when I had small TV and film on VHS, but now I project Blurays onto a 8 foot screen so everything now shows up even more.

Maybe when WB have put out better versions of STM and SII in UHD, I may buy a new player and upgrade to them. Until then, I will stick with the boxset from 13 years ago.
Isn't it odd that WB have not bothered in 13 years to revisit these 2 films on Bluray when you look at other films that made far less money for them get multiple re-releases that sometimes aren't even necessary, whereas STM and SII are calling out for re-mastering for Bluray (and UHD reading some of these posts).
And... if they do get re-done, please can they both at least feature their original 6 track sound in DTS MA.

Oh, one strange thing, In SII when Clark and Lois return from the Fortress, the car scene is taken from STM (where Lex overturns the car). However, in the Donner cut a different version is used and that also featured in the extended TV cut of II.
I assume Richard Donner filmed both versions so it seems odd to re-use footage from STM when this was surely filmed and available.

Mick.

[DR Herbert West]

Originally Posted by Mick B

Isn't it odd that WB have not bothered in 13 years to revisit these 2 films on Bluray

Not really.