Superman: The Movie 4K UHD (1978)

[starmike]

Originally Posted by thebarnman

This thread has been confusing to me with all the different types of soundtracks being on different discs with newer releases not having a certain type of sound track a different one has.

I just hope this newer version ends up having the audio originally used from the movie's 70mm release.

It does.

[thebarnman]

Originally Posted by starmike

It does.

Thanks for that, I'll be getting it!

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by starmike

It does.

The "split surround" 6-track mix was apparently created in 1978 as a test, but the technology was so new that the studio reconsidered, and the track wasn't used commercially, the 70mm prints actually went out with a mono mix. Geoff D (very politely) corrected me about this on the thread for the 5-film set, and I did some Googling to find more info.

[Martoto]

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

The "split surround" 6-track mix was apparently created in 1978 as a test, but the technology was so new that the studio reconsidered, and the track wasn't used commercially, the 70mm prints actually went out with a mono mix. Geoff D (very politely) corrected me about this on the thread for the 5-film set, and I did some Googling to find more info.

It's from the famous DVDFile interview with Michael Thau about the 2001 Special Edition DVD:

"Going back to the original mix, we were shocked when we heard it. We grabbed the original 70mm full-coat that actually had the label from the Pinewood stage on it; it had a date of November 1978. We put it up in a dubbing stage. We had Dolby down there a couple times verifying that the set up on the Dolby units, the decoding, was correct.

Superman was the first film that was originally recorded in a 70mm 6-track split surround but here's the rub that no one knows about but it's the truth.
They mixed in split surrounds but they did not use the surrounds very much, especially in a stereo way because it was very new and they were very scared of it.

At the last second, here in America, they brought it over to do some final mastering on the 70mm and they chickened out and the film was only released with mono surround in the 70mm format. So they mixed it for stereo surround, but it was never released that way and the fact is that there wasn't much difference anyway."

[Martoto]

Split the surrounds, you cowards!

[stackerboy99]

[QUOTE=unsung122212;23454530]Since you bought the set, you can just contact WB for free replacements. You’ll get the original 5.1 that’s now in lossless and the opening credits glitch is fixed.

Who do I contact for that? I saw two articles regarding this and there was an email listed that you reach out to and request the discs, but I haven't heard a response yet.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Martoto

Split the surrounds, you cowards!

Heck of it is, the split surround 70mm system was designed to have a type 42 compatible output anyway, as the channel used for the subwoofer carried the mono surround, and the channels used for the stereo surrounds carried the two 'baby boom' tracks, they're just filtered off depending on the decoding used.

[Ssj3 Goku]

[quote=stackerboy99;23464973]

Originally Posted by unsung122212

Since you bought the set, you can just contact WB for free replacements. You’ll get the original 5.1 that’s now in lossless and the opening credits glitch is fixed.

Who do I contact for that? I saw two articles regarding this and there was an email listed that you reach out to and request the discs, but I haven't heard a response yet.

What if I only have the 2018 disc? Can I also get the replacement?

[unsung122212]

Originally Posted by stackerboy99

Who do I contact for that? I saw two articles regarding this and there was an email listed that you reach out to and request the discs, but I haven't heard a response yet.

The main one that keeps getting posted is WHV@wbd.com (or whv@wbd.com). Unfortunately there may not be enough people sifting thru that email account and just doesn’t see everything that is received or the spam function is messing things for them not to see. So, you may just have to keep sending emails til someone notices.

Originally Posted by Ssj3 Goku

What if I only have the 2018 disc? Can I also get the replacement?

I am not sure on that one since it’s been around for so long and the opening glitch was the only issue that was brought up (to WB at least). The audio issue is only relevant to the 2023 pressing and the set had issues on multiple discs. However, it doesn’t hurt to ask them to see if they could replace the glitch opening with a corrected disc since that is available.

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Heck of it is, the split surround 70mm system was designed to have a type 42 compatible output anyway, as the channel used for the subwoofer carried the mono surround, and the channels used for the stereo surrounds carried the two 'baby boom' tracks, they're just filtered off depending on the decoding used.

Those damn baby boomers doomed us all.

[david_blu]

Still waiting for my replacement discs, if someone were to explain the difference audibly between the DD 2018 70mm sound file and the 2025 DTS 70mm, what would you say?

More dynamic, more oomph? MP3 Vs WAVE? Just to get a sense of the upgrade. Course a quick audio snippet would be cool too.

[Indiana Jones]

[quote=Ssj3 Goku;23465332]

Originally Posted by stackerboy99

What if I only have the 2018 disc? Can I also get the replacement?

I am apparently getting the replacement discs and the barcode I sent them for Superman was of the 2018 release.

[stackerboy99]

[quote=Ssj3 Goku;23465332]

Originally Posted by stackerboy99

What if I only have the 2018 disc? Can I also get the replacement?

I would assume so, yes.

[KC-Technerd]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

It's from the famous DVDFile interview with Michael Thau about the 2001 Special Edition DVD:

"Going back to the original mix, we were shocked when we heard it. We grabbed the original 70mm full-coat that actually had the label from the Pinewood stage on it; it had a date of November 1978. We put it up in a dubbing stage. We had Dolby down there a couple times verifying that the set up on the Dolby units, the decoding, was correct.

Superman was the first film that was originally recorded in a 70mm 6-track split surround but here's the rub that no one knows about but it's the truth.
They mixed in split surrounds but they did not use the surrounds very much, especially in a stereo way because it was very new and they were very scared of it.

At the last second, here in America, they brought it over to do some final mastering on the 70mm and they chickened out and the film was only released with mono surround in the 70mm format. So they mixed it for stereo surround, but it was never released that way and the fact is that there wasn't much difference anyway."

In these comments and others, I think Thau really made every attempt possible to belittle the excellent 70mm Dolby Stereo 6-track mix in order to justify and promote his 5.1 remix/recreation for the Special Edition. After hearing the 6-track mix myself, I put very little trust in anything Thau has had to say about it. I believe the split surrounds were used very effectively, where that use was appropriate. I think it is sometimes forgotten today that sound obviously coming from off screen locations should be primarily be reserved for appropriate effects and not distract from the on screen action and dialog.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by KC-Technerd

In these comments and others, I think Thau really made every attempt possible to belittle the excellent 70mm Dolby Stereo 6-track mix in order to justify and promote his 5.1 remix/recreation for the Special Edition. After hearing the 6-track mix myself, I put very little trust in anything Thau has had to say about it. I believe the split surrounds were used very effectively, where that use was appropriate. I think it is sometimes forgotten today that sound obviously coming from off screen locations should be primarily be reserved for appropriate effects and not distract from the on screen action and dialog.

I agree with you, but to be fair to him not many movies had that kind of audio care with audio remixing at the time he made the SE

I don't listen it to it very often but the fact that almost 25 years later his mix is still the basis of the current Dolby Atmos track, says a lot about how advanced his work was back then. And Donner was very happy with it

It's a different experience for sure but still worth to listen to....

He recreated an isolated score track that is still magnificient as well

[motorheadache95]

I don’t mind the redone audio, I think it sounds pretty good, but in my mind it belongs on the Special Edition. That to me differentiates that version in addition to restoring a few of the deleted scenes— it makes a nice alternative version of the movie (I watched the TV cut exactly once, and I have no desire to ever sit through that again).
The theatrical cut, however, should be watched with the theatrical audio. I’ll probably never watch the UHD with the Atmos track.

[KC-Technerd]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Heck of it is, the split surround 70mm system was designed to have a type 42 compatible output anyway, as the channel used for the subwoofer carried the mono surround, and the channels used for the stereo surrounds carried the two 'baby boom' tracks, they're just filtered off depending on the decoding used.

I'm very doubtful that a wide release of type 43 (split surround) prints was ever planned for 1978. (I suspect Thau's comments about this was just part of his badmouthing the 6-track.) This was a very early experiment. I suspect that in 1978 many 70mm venues still had unconverted Todd-AO sound systems, with full range reproduction of tracks 2 & 4 (the tracks carrying both the baby boom and the split-surround info above 450 Hz) on LC & RC speakers. Releasing type 42 prints was probably considered easier and more reliable for ensuring compatibility with those installations than requesting/requiring appropriate filtering for or turning off the LC & RC speakers. Also turning off LC & RC would have eliminated any baby-boom reproduction, and was probably considered a less desirable solution than using a type 42 print.

[KC-Technerd]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

I don’t mind the redone audio, I think it sounds pretty good, but in my mind it belongs on the Special Edition.

Exactly!

[starmike]

Originally Posted by KC-Technerd

I'm very doubtful that a wide release of type 43 (split surround) prints was ever planned for 1978. (I suspect Thau's comments about this was just part of his badmouthing the 6-track.) This was a very early experiment. I suspect that in 1978 many 70mm venues still had unconverted Todd-AO sound systems, with full range reproduction of tracks 2 & 4 (the tracks carrying both the baby boom and the split-surround info above 450 Hz) on LC & RC speakers. Releasing type 42 prints was probably considered easier and more reliable for ensuring compatibility with those installations than requesting/requiring appropriate filtering for or turning off the LC & RC speakers. Also turning off LC & RC would have eliminated any baby-boom reproduction, and was probably considered a less desirable solution than using a type 42 print.

You're right. There was only one house in SF (Northpoint) that had the capability of showing it split. But it WAS shown publicly.

EDIT: Also, this was discussed TO DEATH in the box set thread. I don't want to go through that again.

That thread was Ruined