Justice League 4K UHD (2017)

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by LoSouL

I want a 4 hour long, VFX free work print.

Why? To torture yourself?

[LoSouL]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

Why? To torture yourself?

It would be interesting to see what kind of cuts could have been assembled and finished, with what kind of tone and flow, out of everything they shot and reshot.

It'd also be prime for fan cuts, fan edits and green screen shenanigans.

This would provide decades of fun and conversation. The opposite of torture. Sell it or leak it.

[Deric2014]

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

That suit is beautiful.

Better than the one used in the credits which looked awful.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by LoSouL

It would be interesting to see what kind of cuts could have been assembled and finished, with what kind of tone and flow, out of everything they shot and reshot.

It'd also be prime for fan cuts, fan edits and green screen shenanigans.

This would provide decades of fun and conversation. The opposite of torture. Sell it or leak it.

People just don't realize that Joss Whedon came in and pretty much re-shot the entire film. The fact that so many believe that there isn't an existing watchable Zack Snyder Cut are fooling themselves and drinking the hateraide. Zack Snyder's version was screened by audiences before Whedon came in to remake the movie and replaced Junkie XL with Danny Elffman for the score. WB used Zack Snyder's family tragedy as the out they needed to get him off the movie so they could let Joss Marvelize Justice League! The truth is going to come out sooner rather than later and it will be more than just deleted scenes and a workprint.

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

People just don't realize that Joss Whedon came in and pretty much re-shot the entire film. The fact that so many believe that there isn't an existing watchable Zack Snyder Cut are fooling themselves and drinking the hateraide. Zack Snyder's version was screened by audiences before Whedon came in to remake the movie and replaced Junkie XL with Danny Elffman for the score. WB used Zack Snyder's family tragedy as the out they needed to get him off the movie so they could let Joss Marvelize Justice League! The truth is going to come out sooner rather than later and it will be more than just deleted scenes and a workprint.

Most leaks indicate that it was only the last third of the film that was mostly reshot. Further leaks also support this sentiment; leaked summaries of earlier cuts line up plot wise with some changes. Narratively, both Snyder and Whedon's cuts hit the same narrative beats according to the leaks. However Snyder told that story differently to Whedon (no two directors will tell the same story the same way). People who have analysed the film do estimate a majority of the footage used is Snyder's.

Whedon did not reshoot the entire film. The reshoots were extensive, but not that extensive. If he did reshoot nearly the entire film, it would have been widely reported (See: Ron Howard reshooting nearly all of Han Solo).

There is nothing to suggest Snyder was forced out apart from speculation. although Time Warner executives (who were apparently furious he was kept on to direct Justice League) were probably relieved he willingly stepped away.

The impression I've got from the official stories and the leaks is that Snyder and WB's plans for the films were completely incompatible. After the death of his daughter, Snyder chose to step away. WB then got Whedon to change the film into one they believed would be more financially successful. If WB had fired Snyder or forced him out, there would have been something solid to support it. For example; when Phil Lord and Chris Miller were fired from Han Solo, the press knew within days.

Besides, I doubt Justice League would have been much better received if Snyder had stayed on board; the leaks saying his first cut was more of what audiences didn't like about BVS suggests as much. It would probably still be a very divisive film, as is most of Snyder's output (only three of Snyder's eight films have received mostly positive reviews). The box office performance also suggested audiences have got very tired of Zack Snyder's style of superhero films (the film was marketed as being a Snyder film).

Besides, all the leaks have confirmed it would cost a fortune to finish a Snyder cut of any kind, since most of the scenes that were deleted/reshot were VFX heavy ones.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by pottyaboutpotter1

Most leaks indicate that it was only the last third of the film that was mostly reshot. Further leaks also support this sentiment; leaked summaries of earlier cuts line up plot wise with some changes. Narratively, both Snyder and Whedon's cuts hit the same narrative beats according to the leaks. However Snyder told that story differently to Whedon (no two directors will tell the same story the same way). People who have analysed the film do estimate a majority of the footage used is Snyder's.

Whedon did not reshoot the entire film. The reshoots were extensive, but not that extensive. If he did reshoot nearly the entire film, it would have been widely reported (See: Ron Howard reshooting nearly all of Han Solo).

There is nothing to suggest Snyder was forced out apart from speculation. although Time Warner executives (who were apparently furious he was kept on to direct Justice League) were probably relieved he willingly stepped away.

The impression I've got from the official stories and the leaks is that Snyder and WB's plans for the films were completely incompatible. After the death of his daughter, Snyder chose to step away. WB then got Whedon to change the film into one they believed would be more financially successful. If WB had fired Snyder or forced him out, there would have been something solid to support it. For example; when Phil Lord and Chris Miller were fired from Han Solo, the press knew within days.

Besides, I doubt Justice League would have been much better received if Snyder had stayed on board; the leaks saying his first cut was more of what audiences didn't like about BVS suggests as much. It would probably still be a very divisive film, as is most of Snyder's output (only three of Snyder's eight films have received mostly positive reviews). The box office performance also suggested audiences have got very tired of Zack Snyder's style of superhero films (the film was marketed as being a Snyder film).

Besides, all the leaks have confirmed it would cost a fortune to finish a Snyder cut of any kind, since most of the scenes that were deleted/reshot were VFX heavy ones.

The point you and others seem to always omit is the fact that Snyder's cut was screened to test audiences. That means it was completed and it exists. Regardless of all the other conjecture and discussion about VFX etc etc. That's an excuse people are using to justify their beliefs that the Snyder cut is some unicorn like fable. This conversation is going to go much differently when the Snyder Cut either ends up officially released by WB or leaked online. Either way it won't take 5-10 years. As for the majority of the movie being Snyder's. That's grossly incorrect. ALL of Superman's scenes were re-shot by Joss Whedon, we can tell that by the cgi mustache crap. Scenes with Perry White and various characters from previous DCEU films were cut. Darkseid was cut. (just to give a few examples) Whedon changed dialogue and re-shot virtually everything he had time to because he was complying with WB's lighter tone mandate, and was condensing many plot points to gel with the under 2hr run-time. None of this is disputed. So what makes you think he didn't re-shoot the majority of the film? Last time I checked 60% is considered a majority.

[xbs2034]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

The point you and others seem to always omit is the fact that Snyder's cut was screened to test audiences. That means it was completed and it exists. Regardless of all the other conjecture and discussion about VFX etc etc. That's an excuse people are using to justify their beliefs that the Snyder cut is some unicorn like fable. This conversation is going to go much differently when the Snyder Cut either ends up officially released by WB or leaked online. Either way it won't take 5-10 years. As for the majority of the movie being Snyder's. That's grossly incorrect. ALL of Superman's scenes were re-shot by Joss Whedon, we can tell that by the cgi mustache crap. Scenes with Perry White and various characters from previous DCEU films were cut. Darkseid was cut. (just to give a few examples) Whedon changed dialogue and re-shot virtually everything he had time to because he was complying with WB's lighter tone mandate, and was condensing many plot points to gel with the under 2hr run-time. None of this is disputed. So what makes you think he didn't re-shoot the majority of the film? Last time I checked 60% is considered a majority.

A test screening does not mean a completed cut by any means.

They often are overly long in order to see what to cut, use temporary music, far from complete visual effects (which often produce giggles in screenings I've gone to), lack color grading or proper sound mixing, etc. Given how effects heavy JL is and how far in advance of release Snyder left the project (and he 100% was not fired, WB could not fire except for gross misconduct at that point), there almost certainly would be months of work and millions needed to properly finish the earlier version of the film.

I also do believe that the majority of the theatrical cut was shot by Snyder. It may be more than the 15% of the film some producer said was reshot, but I'm pretty sure if Whedon directed more than half of the completed cut, he would've gotten a co-director credit. And by editing the film or reshooting lines here and there in mostly Snyder shot scenes, Whedon has a lot of sway over the final product even while not shooting a ton of that footage himself.

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

The point you and others seem to always omit is the fact that Snyder's cut was screened to test audiences. That means it was completed and it exists. Regardless of all the other conjecture and discussion about VFX etc etc. That's an excuse people are using to justify their beliefs that the Snyder cut is some unicorn like fable. This conversation is going to go much differently when the Snyder Cut either ends up officially released by WB or leaked online. Either way it won't take 5-10 years. As for the majority of the movie being Snyder's. That's grossly incorrect. ALL of Superman's scenes were re-shot by Joss Whedon, we can tell that by the cgi mustache crap. Scenes with Perry White and various characters from previous DCEU films were cut. Darkseid was cut. (just to give a few examples) Whedon changed dialogue and re-shot virtually everything he had time to because he was complying with WB's lighter tone mandate, and was condensing many plot points to gel with the under 2hr run-time. None of this is disputed. So what makes you think he didn't re-shoot the majority of the film? Last time I checked 60% is considered a majority.

You do realise that just because a cut is screened doesn't mean it's anywhere near complete? All evidence points to it being an earliest of early cuts that was screened to gauge potential audience reactions. People who worked on the film have confirmed it wasn't a cut Snyder himself was happy with thus calling it a Snyder cut is incorrect. It wasn't complete in any measurable way, so to say it was complete is completely untrue. Movies like this aren't complete in any way until very close to release date. Assembly cut or initial cut would be a more accurate term than Snyder cut. Either way, it was a cut that would cost way too much money to finish.

Yes, all Superman's scenes were reshot but Superman is barely in the film and reports indicate this was always the case. Darkseid's role was minimal and was probably cut because WB were worried about people drawing similarities to Thanos (apparently he only appeared at the other end of a portal during the climax). Likewise, other characters were cut because their role was minimal.

What's your evidence for Whedon reshooting everything? Like I said, Ron Howard reshot about 80% of Han Solo and there's evidence for it everywhere (Disney has even pretty much admitted it). But all the evidence for Justice League points to Whedon reshooting about 40% at most. Here's a list claiming what is and isn't Snyder's. https://www.resetera.com/threads/dce...0#post-1089110

Seems to indicate the final film is mostly Snyder with bits of Whedon scattered throughout (and mostly just jokes added during Snyder scenes).

Throw in some evidence that the film was entirely reshot by Whedon and I'll gladly listen, evidence that isn't fans being hyperbolic would be helpful - as fans can exaggerate things (see: some Star Wars fans trying to make it out that Mark Hamill hates The Last Jedi despite the man himself continually correcting fans and press that he loves the film).

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by xbs2034

tI'm pretty sure if Whedon directed more than half of the completed cut, he would've gotten a co-director credit.

^ This.

If Whedon had reshot a majority of the film, he'd be able to get either a director's credit or an executive producer's credit. As he doesn't have either, then a majority of the footage used in the film isn't his/his contribution to the film wasn't major.

For example, James Mangold has an executive producer's credit on The Greatest Showman due to overseeing the reshoots and the post-production - having done enough work that it was felt Mangold deserved a credit. A similar situation to Justice League but a different result. Mangold was credited for his work but Whedon wasn't, which indicates Whedon's work on Justice League wasn't as extensive as Mangold's on The Greatest Showman.

[testmon112]

I don't think Zack is going anywhere soon (unless they clean house) because Deborah Snyder is a producer on most of the slated films that DC are putting up that's why he has some form of leverage.

Audiences have shown with the disappointing BO that the interest is just not there. Brand loyalty and reputation mean a lot in today's climate. Wonder Woman worked not only because of a Patty Jenkins but also because it was divorced from most of the baggage of BvS, it had the room to breathe to just be a good origin film.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by pottyaboutpotter1

You do realise that just because a cut is screened doesn't mean it's anywhere near complete? All evidence points to it being an earliest of early cuts that was screened to gauge potential audience reactions. People who worked on the film have confirmed it wasn't a cut Snyder himself was happy with thus calling it a Snyder cut is incorrect. It wasn't complete in any measurable way, so to say it was complete is completely untrue. Movies like this aren't complete in any way until very close to release date. Assembly cut or initial cut would be a more accurate term than Snyder cut. Either way, it was a cut that would cost way too much money to finish.

Yes, all Superman's scenes were reshot but Superman is barely in the film and reports indicate this was always the case. Darkseid's role was minimal and was probably cut because WB were worried about people drawing similarities to Thanos (apparently he only appeared at the other end of a portal during the climax). Likewise, other characters were cut because their role was minimal.

What's your evidence for Whedon reshooting everything? Like I said, Ron Howard reshot about 80% of Han Solo and there's evidence for it everywhere (Disney has even pretty much admitted it). But all the evidence for Justice League points to Whedon reshooting about 40% at most. Here's a list claiming what is and isn't Snyder's. https://www.resetera.com/threads/dce...0#post-1089110

Seems to indicate the final film is mostly Snyder with bits of Whedon scattered throughout (and mostly just jokes added during Snyder scenes).

Throw in some evidence that the film was entirely reshot by Whedon and I'll gladly listen, evidence that isn't fans being hyperbolic would be helpful - as fans can exaggerate things (see: some Star Wars fans trying to make it out that Mark Hamill hates The Last Jedi despite the man himself continually correcting fans and press that he loves the film).

Funny how the link you provided proves my point almost entirely. Whedon re-shot 60% of Justice League and most of VFX work that everybody is saying will prevent the release of a Snyder Cut was completed. Thanks for the link!

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

Funny how the link you provided proves my point almost entirely. Whedon re-shot 60% of Justice League and most of VFX work that everybody is saying will prevent the release of a Snyder Cut was completed. Thanks for the link!

Actually most of the Whedon stuff on that link is inserts (new bits of dialogue, reaction shots, quick jokes). Not a majority of the film. So... yeah. Not 60% of the film.

And the VFX on the initial cut was not completed. VFX on the major movies is not completed until a couple of weeks before released. VFX takes a long time.

I’m not sure where you’ve got the impression that there’s a compeltely finoshed Snyder cut that WB are sitting on.

A VFX artist on the film has even said that the necessary VFX for the Snyder cut is unfinished and will cost millions to complete. The only VFX work done on any of the deleted sequences was removing Iris West and replacing her with a random woman from a scene with the Flash because the scene may be on the Blu-Ray special features and m the studio wants to introduce Iris properly in Flashpoint. The rest of the VFX is remaining unfinished.

There is no Snyder cut with completed VFX. I don’t think you understand how long it takes to do VFX and that early cuts are screened without finished VFX (I heard they even cut to Storyboards for some sequences in the early Justice League cut as VFX was nowhere near complete).

WB aren’t releasing a Snyder cut out of spite, they’re not releasing one because of the logistical reasons to do so. They’re losing $50-100 million on Justice League. They’re not spending more money on finishing another cut.

Besides, the reshoots only cost $25 million of the estimated $300 million budget. If Whedon has reshot nearly the entire film, then how did he only spend $25 million instead of the $275 million Snyder spent? You’re suggesting that a film that took six months to film and cost $250-275 million was compeltely reshot in two for $25 million. There’s no way that happened.

The Snyder cut is dead. Bury it.

[Mr. Chaverria]

Originally Posted by testmon112

I don't think Zack is going anywhere soon (unless they clean house) because Deborah Snyder is a producer on most of the slated films that DC are putting up that's why he has some form of leverage.

Audiences have shown with the disappointing BO that the interest is just not there. Brand loyalty and reputation mean a lot in today's climate. Wonder Woman worked not only because of a Patty Jenkins but also because it was divorced from most of the baggage of BvS, it had the room to breathe to just be a good origin film.

i don't think Jenkins' involvement would matter really based on how average the film was. WW's debut in BvS hammered how cool she was. WW had it alright to jump into.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by pottyaboutpotter1

Actually most of the Whedon stuff on that link is inserts (new bits of dialogue, reaction shots, quick jokes). Not a majority of the film. So... yeah. Not 60% of the film.

And the VFX on the initial cut was not completed. VFX on the major movies is not completed until a couple of weeks before released. VFX takes a long time.

I’m not sure where you’ve got the impression that there’s a compeltely finoshed Snyder cut that WB are sitting on.

A VFX artist on the film has even said that the necessary VFX for the Snyder cut is unfinished and will cost millions to complete. The only VFX work done on any of the deleted sequences was removing Iris West and replacing her with a random woman from a scene with the Flash because the scene may be on the Blu-Ray special features and m the studio wants to introduce Iris properly in Flashpoint. The rest of the VFX is remaining unfinished.

There is no Snyder cut with completed VFX. I don’t think you understand how long it takes to do VFX and that early cuts are screened without finished VFX (I heard they even cut to Storyboards for some sequences in the early Justice League cut as VFX was nowhere near complete).

WB aren’t releasing a Snyder cut out of spite, they’re not releasing one because of the logistical reasons to do so. They’re losing $50-100 million on Justice League. They’re not spending more money on finishing another cut.

Besides, the reshoots only cost $25 million of the estimated $300 million budget. If Whedon has reshot nearly the entire film, then how did he only spend $25 million instead of the $275 million Snyder spent? You’re suggesting that a film that took six months to film and cost $250-275 million was compeltely reshot in two for $25 million. There’s no way that happened.

The Snyder cut is dead. Bury it.

I'm going off of the link you provided. If you read what the person who has seen multiple cuts of Justice League had to say, you will notice how he points out that the majority of the VFX were completed. It's in there! Also you are taking at face value that Whedon's re-shoots were small because of I don't know what. I highly doubt those re-shoots were that cheap as it is one again made abundantly clear in the link you provided that the majority of what was released in theaters was either shot by Whedon or tinkered with by Whedon. The score being replaced is a nice part of that 60% too!

[RalphoR]

Not too excited if we should get another cut or not of JL on the 4k release. I was fine with the movie as is. I am looking forward to the new solo movies (with hopefully a few small cameos in each) as long as they follow the successful formula of Wonder Woman. We can revisit a new JL movie a few years down the road.

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

I'm going off of the link you provided. If you read what the person who has seen multiple cuts of Justice League had to say, you will notice how he points out that the majority of the VFX were completed. It's in there! Also you are taking at face value that Whedon's re-shoots were small because of I don't know what. I highly doubt those re-shoots were that cheap as it is one again made abundantly clear in the link you provided that the majority of what was released in theaters was either shot by Whedon or tinkered with by Whedon. The score being replaced is a nice part of that 60% too!

Again, I'm going from various leaks which all agree that the reshoots were extensive but not that extensive that most of the film was redone. VFX was not completed. VFX on the film would not have been completed for early spring (when the first cut was screened). There's no realistic way VFX would have been completed for then. Try and look at this a little more objectively and you'll begin to see the cracks in the fiction that Whedon reshot most of the film.

Ron Howard reshot nearly all of Han Solo nearly a year before release; this is widely known, lots of evidence for it, the budget has ballooned as a result and there's concerns the film still might not be finished for it's May 2018 release date. If you're suggesting Justice League went through something similar in six months, you really don't seem to understand how all this works.

If Whedon had completely redone the film and only minimal footage from Snyder was used, rules and laws would have demanded Whedon be credited as the sole director.

WB firing Snyder under the pretence of his family tragedy, completely redoing the film, not crediting Whedon as director, keeping Snyder credited etc. would be one of the biggest Hollywood production scandals in recent memory. If this is what happened, people would be desperate to leak the story to the press. But there's been nothing. No major Hollywood Reporter article like there was for Suicide Squad's production issues. No Variety Expose like there was for The Mummy. Nothing. AT ALL.

This idea that Whedon has completely redone the film has no basis in actual evidence and is all mainly based on feels - fans on forums who can't accept that they just didn't like the movie and instead believe there's some grand conspiracy as to why it's "bad". You see it all the time. See: "Disney ruined the movie!" posts every time a new Star Wars movie is released.

[Deric2014]

Originally Posted by pottyaboutpotter1

Again, I'm going from various leaks which all agree that the reshoots were extensive but not that extensive that most of the film was redone. VFX was not completed. VFX on the film would not have been completed for early spring (when the first cut was screened). There's no realistic way VFX would have been completed for then. Try and look at this a little more objectively and you'll begin to see the cracks in the fiction that Whedon reshot most of the film.

Ron Howard reshot nearly all of Han Solo nearly a year before release; this is widely known, lots of evidence for it, the budget has ballooned as a result and there's concerns the film still might not be finished for it's May 2018 release date. If you're suggesting Justice League went through something similar in six months, you really don't seem to understand how all this works.

If Whedon had completely redone the film and only minimal footage from Snyder was used, rules and laws would have demanded Whedon be credited as the sole director.

The 2016 Comic Con trailer and Official Trailer from March contained lot's of finished CGI so Zack Snyder's Original Cut must be half finished or somewhat finished.

[GC Riot]

Originally Posted by Deric2014

The 2016 Comic Con trailer and Official Trailer from March contained lot's of finished CGI so Zack Snyder's Original Cut must be half finished or somewhat finished.

There are definitely a lot of finished shots that ended up being cut, but it would still cost millions to finish up the rest. Millions that I don't think Warner are too keen on pouring into a project that ultimately would end up confusing a lot of people ("Soooo, which one of these is canon?" etc)

[tyrok]

The director's guild wouldn't have allowed them to keep Snyder's credit as director if Whedon had reshot more than 50% of the movie. Just like how the director who finished Superman II had to shoot just enough footage in order to get his credit as director instead of Donner.

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by Deric2014

The 2016 Comic Con trailer and Official Trailer from March contained lot's of finished CGI so Zack Snyder's Original Cut must be half finished or somewhat finished.

Doesn’t mean anything. VFX teams rush certain shots in films so they can be used in marketing. And notice how much those shots changed between trailers. They weren’t finished.