Halloween 4K UHD (1978)

[BluProofie]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I've said may times that Shout releases have a history of audio problems. They don't seem to focus on audio sadly. Even their fixed version of Black Christmas has sync problems with 2 of the 3 included audio options. That's inexcusable, as I can't fathom for instance Vinegar Syndrome or Synapse putting out a fixed version of a disc for some reason and it still having issues that they missed the second time. Shout is just too sloppy.

No sync issues on my Black Christmas. Watched it with the mono and stereo tracks.

[vailsy]

Originally Posted by JCRW82

Even though the Criterion Laserdisc Mono Mix is the best sounding release in home video format, it is still not the best possible audio source that a company like Shout Factory can get. The right way to go about this is to go back to the master tape (Original 35mm Magnetic Master Mono Soundtrack) just like they did for the video (OCN over an Interpositive like seen in the Lionsgate Halloween 4K release).

You could go back a step further than that to the original 'final mix' multitrack tapes (or first duplicates of those) which made that mono track. Those tapes must be in a storage facility somewhere .. since Carpenter is such a big music/audio fan maybe he has the original tapes

They must have had them when this dodgy 5.1 mix was made in order to access the stems

It then requires starting again, and re-restoring that original source .. that would be the absolute best scenario

[vailsy]

Originally Posted by BobSimms

Is every blu ray label and restoration house going back to the mag reels when they do a new pass & restoration work on a soundtrack (because I don’t get that impression), or are they using optical tracks from the earliest generation finished product?

certainly back in the late 90's early 00's that is what i saw yes .. when soundtracks were being remastered in very large numbers for dvd releases (i saw this for big movies like rollerball and for fairly obscure old tv shows like department s also), and yes they were still doing masters for vhs tapes at that point for some new release movies

I can't imagine things have changed much since .. still people will be using original or first generation multitrack tapes for movies and shows from that era

I guess it's a question of budget though.. I'm not sure about Shout in particular.. do they have there own audio department or do they use remastering houses? I don't know

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by BluProofie

No sync issues on my Black Christmas. Watched it with the mono and stereo tracks.

That is absolutely not true. I documented it in the Black Christmas thread last year. Both the 5.1 and the stereo track (which is just a fold-down of the 5.1 track) go out of sync later in the film, maybe 2/3 - 3/4 through the film roughly, and then stays out of sync for the rest of the film. The mono track is the only track that stays in sync for the entire film. This is on the fixed replacement disc they sent out. I did extensive testing last Christmas when I wanted to put it on for a friend and found the mono track was the only track that stayed in sync.

Some will notice the sync issue and some won't but it's enough that it ruins it for me. It's clearly out of sync once it happens. The mono stays in perfect sync but it's rather rough sounding, especially the dialogue.

[Matt89]

Originally Posted by mar3o

That is absolutely not true. I documented it in the Black Christmas thread last year. Both the 5.1 and the stereo track (which is just a fold-down of the 5.1 track) go out of sync later in the film, maybe 2/3 - 3/4 through the film roughly, and then stays out of sync for the rest of the film. The mono track is the only track that stays in sync for the entire film. This is on the fixed replacement disc they sent out. I did extensive testing last Christmas when I wanted to put it on for a friend and found the mono track was the only track that stayed in sync.

Some will notice the sync issue and some won't but it's enough that it ruins it for me. It's clearly out of sync once it happens. The mono stays in perfect sync but it's rather rough sounding, especially the dialogue.

Sure, but I'll take "rough sounding" original mono over those garbage remixes any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I'm not being an apologist for Shout as the other tracks shouldn't be out of sync if they had proper QC, but the remixes suck so much balls that the mono is the only audio track on that disc that matters.

~Matt

[GeoffOliver]

Originally Posted by mar3o

That is absolutely not true. I documented it in the Black Christmas thread last year. Both the 5.1 and the stereo track (which is just a fold-down of the 5.1 track) go out of sync later in the film, maybe 2/3 - 3/4 through the film roughly, and then stays out of sync for the rest of the film. The mono track is the only track that stays in sync for the entire film. This is on the fixed replacement disc they sent out. I did extensive testing last Christmas when I wanted to put it on for a friend and found the mono track was the only track that stayed in sync.

Some will notice the sync issue and some won't but it's enough that it ruins it for me. It's clearly out of sync once it happens. The mono stays in perfect sync but it's rather rough sounding, especially the dialogue.

I don't even bother with anything other than the mono for that movie. The remix was a botched, revisionist mess, sync issues or not.

[JCRW82]

Originally Posted by vailsy

You could go back a step further than that to the original 'final mix' multitrack tapes (or first duplicates of those) which made that mono track. Those tapes must be in a storage facility somewhere .. since Carpenter is such a big music/audio fan maybe he has the original tapes

They must have had them when this dodgy 5.1 mix was made in order to access the stems

It then requires starting again, and re-restoring that original source .. that would be the absolute best scenario

If you are going back to the multitrack tapes to create a new mono mix that would be a remix. I don't think a company like Shout Factory need to go down that route unless absolutely necessary (if the Original 35mm Magnetic Master Mono Soundtrack was destroyed and no other sources existed for example).

The multitrack sources would be the way to go for the Atmos Mix. When the 5.1 mix was done in 1999 by Chace Productions, they got assistance from Alan Howarth to source the original 16 track music studio master along with the 35mm Magnetic Dialogue & Effects Track. But they took it a step further and decided to re-create effects like loud thunder cracks which sounded off and overtook the dialogue. They also did a pretty poor job of over processing the stems and balancing the tracks out. Since these all would have been converted to digital files, it has been the easiest and cheapest source for other companies to use and port over to future releases. I fully expect this is what SF have taken as they have been quoted that they are trying to tweak mistakes made by Chace to get those tracks sounding great.

I'm pretty certain the 16 track music studio master exists because Alan Howarth confirmed in 2018 that it was an option they could use for the 40th Anniversary Vinyl release, but they decided to use the Original 35mm Magnetic Master Mono Soundtrack to be true to the original mix and took out the dialogue.

[Torgon]

Originally Posted by dcowboy7

Halloween 1978 was a tuesday.

Lynda said:
"It's totally insane! We have three new cheers to learn in the morning, the game in the afternoon, I get my hair done at five, and the dance is at eight. I'll be totally wiped out!"

What school plays football & has a dance on a wednesday night ??

Originally Posted by JayTL

it's inside outside the realm of possibility that all that happened because it was Halloween that day.

Originally Posted by Rumourd

Not only that, but why aren't any of the three lead characters wearing Halloween costumes to school that day?

(Also, if you listen closely, that's clearly PJ Soles as one of the background cheerleader voices. So she's playing two people in one scene.)

I'm tired of all this talk about the sound mix (last five pages or so). We should be talking about why Halloween is on Tuesday/Wednesday with a football game that night or why Tommy has six toes on his right foot or something. All audio questions will be answered soon and it's too late to worry about it now; what's done is done.

[Kyle15]

Halloween

[moscone_bail_bonds]

I can't remember where I read it, if it was even this forum but I'm sure I read the 5 Halloweens are being released in hard/rigid case boxes. Has that been confirmed?

[halloween5309]

should laurie have got been paid extra for babysitting because she had to protect tommy doyle from a killer?

[DR Herbert West]

Originally Posted by moscone_bail_bonds

I'm sure I read the 5 Halloweens are being released in hard/rigid case boxes.

Correct.

[Markgway]

Sorry, but I still can't believe how shit that artwork is... LMAO

[vailsy]

Originally Posted by JCRW82

If you are going back to the multitrack tapes to create a new mono mix that would be a remix. I don't think a company like Shout Factory need to go down that route unless absolutely necessary (if the Original 35mm Magnetic Master Mono Soundtrack was destroyed and no other sources existed for example).

The multitrack sources would be the way to go for the Atmos Mix. When the 5.1 mix was done in 1999 by Chace Productions, they got assistance from Alan Howarth to source the original 16 track music studio master along with the 35mm Magnetic Dialogue & Effects Track. But they took it a step further and decided to re-create effects like loud thunder cracks which sounded off and overtook the dialogue. They also did a pretty poor job of over processing the stems and balancing the tracks out. Since these all would have been converted to digital files, it has been the easiest and cheapest source for other companies to use and port over to future releases. I fully expect this is what SF have taken as they have been quoted that they are trying to tweak mistakes made by Chace to get those tracks sounding great.

I'm pretty certain the 16 track music studio master exists because Alan Howarth confirmed in 2018 that it was an option they could use for the 40th Anniversary Vinyl release, but they decided to use the Original 35mm Magnetic Master Mono Soundtrack to be true to the original mix and took out the dialogue.

i get your point but it wouldn't be a remix if the final mix stems before mixing them down to mono are used .. mastering houses go back to multitrack tapes to remaster as well, not remix. Probably yes people would go back to the digitized versions of these and revisiting multi track tapes is becoming less common (although over recent years there has been a big resurgence of interest in tape, also massive advances made in the area of a/d converters and so on, so going back to tape would not be a terribly bad idea)

.. but if you are going to go to the effort of doing an atmos mix why not revisit the original stems (digital or otherwise) in order to reproduce the mono as well in the best possible way, especially since things seems to have gone on a bad tangent with this 'filtered mono' .. that would also ensure you make an authentic atmos mix too and not one that reproduces the same errors and additions found on the 5.1 version

It would also mean you could create something which is even better than for example the laser disc that was put out some 25 years ago

I'm talking in an ideal world here.. ideally that is the kind of effort that we would want, especially since so much effort goes into the picture

Since there are 6 pages of comments on audio, and many many threads that are talking about authentic audio, it seems a demand for this is starting to emerge and has existed for some time

[cherrybomb]

Originally Posted by halloween5309

should laurie have got been paid extra for babysitting because she had to protect tommy doyle from a killer?

psssh, his parents better have offered to pay for her college tuition after the hell she went through haha

[vailsy]

Originally Posted by Markgway

Sorry, but I still can't believe how shit that artwork is... LMAO

yes there is so much that is off about it..

Michael Myers looks like a hieroglyphic and those pretty leaves ...

[happydood]

Originally Posted by Markgway

Sorry, but I still can't believe how shit that artwork is... LMAO

It's not good. And yet, I like it better than the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray pastel print from Womens' Wear Daily.

[DaylightsEnd]

Originally Posted by Markgway

Sorry, but I still can't believe how shit that artwork is... LMAO

It was stunning at first, but it's been filtered, like the mono audio track

[JCRW82]

Originally Posted by vailsy

i get your point but it wouldn't be a remix if the final mix stems before mixing them down to mono are used .. mastering houses go back to multitrack tapes to remaster as well, not remix. Probably yes people would go back to the digitized versions of these and revisiting multi track tapes is becoming less common (although over recent years there has been a big resurgence of interest in tape, also massive advances made in the area of a/d converters and so on, so going back to tape would not be a terribly bad idea)

.. but if you are going to go to the effort of doing an atmos mix why not revisit the original stems (digital or otherwise) in order to reproduce the mono as well in the best possible way, especially since things seems to have gone on a bad tangent with this 'filtered mono' .. that would also ensure you make an authentic atmos mix too and not one that reproduces the same errors and additions found on the 5.1 version

It would also mean you could create something which is even better than for example the laser disc that was put out some 25 years ago

I'm talking in an ideal world here.. ideally that is the kind of effort that we would want, especially since so much effort goes into the picture

Since there are 6 pages of comments on audio, and many many threads that are talking about authentic audio, it seems a demand for this is starting to emerge and has existed for some time

Whenever you are going back to multitrack stems I would still call it a remix. Unless they have all the original worknotes available to them, they would not be able to mix a mono track exactly to how the original was done. They can get close, but that's about it. I have heard that practice done in music (Nat 'King' Cole for example) and they are labelled a remix. In the case of the Original Mono Mix, it is confirmed that the original mag tape is still available. The Criterion Laserdisc release and the 2018 vinyl release both confirm there is nothing audibly wrong with the master tape. This would still be the best option to use for a future release.

I agree that now that we have audio comparisons and dialogue in place questioning the quality of the audio we can maybe hope for an improvement in a future release. Maybe they would devote more time and budget to get the audio up to code since they won't need to do much for the picture (unless Mr. Cundey wants another go at it).

[cuzzin]

Three more weeks to release day. (Silver Shamrock!) Hopefully less for Shout! pre-orders.