Halloween 4K UHD (1978)

[Jay H.]

^ I'm just here for the gasoline.

Whoops; wrong thread.

[CreasyBear]

So, aside from the LD, which DVD or BD releases uses the legit original mono track? I can't seem to remember.

Or...is the LD mono out there somewhere?

[JCRW82]

Originally Posted by hungrywives

If we're all loud enough they might. At least I hope so. Shout has a good history of going back and fixing audio issues. That's why I don't understand the people here who are saying, "eh, the 2014 track is good enough." Why not at least put it out there that you want this set to have the best presentation it can? You have nothing to lose. If you don't care about quality why buy the UHD? Why even look at this thread in the first place? Are you just here for the movie quotes?

Exactly, and even if they are unable to go back and fix it for this release they are at least aware that the 2014 filtered mono mix is not the best audio source available for the original mix and can hopefully go back to scratch for the next release.

I get why some don't think the filtered mono mix is an issue, but there are also many out there that complain "why have the mono mix in the first place? It's just one channel that sounds dated for its time and obviously will be inferior to a surround mix with all those extra channels." I would have even said something like that if I didn't remember how powerful the soundtrack was when watching this movie on VHS way back when. The Criterion laserdisc release and the 2018 vinyl release confirm that the mono mix is the definitive mix and sounds fantastic. Is it too much to ask that the audio quality match up to the efforts made for the video quality?

[JCRW82]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

So, aside from the LD, which DVD or BD releases uses the legit original mono track? I can't seem to remember.

Or...is the LD mono out there somewhere?

I don't think the original mono mix was ever included in a DVD release for Halloween. We saw that mix re-appear on the 2007 Anchor Bay Blu-ray and it was a lossy version of the filtered mono mix. The only other release to have the mono mix was the 2014 Shout Factory Box Set which used a lossless version of the filtered mono mix.

If you are talking about a good quality version of the mono mix, only the Criterion Laserdisc and the Death Waltz 40th Anniversary Vinyl are available. Both of those companies went back to the best possible source (Original 35mm Magnetic Master Mono Soundtrack) and from the sounds of them did minimal tampering to master tape (little to no Noise Reduction, little to no compression/limiting and gentle EQ choices).

[bobbyh64]

Originally Posted by JCRW82

I don't think the original mono mix was ever included in a DVD release for Halloween.

I’m pretty sure the original (filtered) mono mix was on most, if not all, DVD releases.

[JCRW82]

Originally Posted by bobbyh64

I’m pretty sure the original (filtered) mono mix was on most, if not all, DVD releases.

My mistake, I forgot that they included the Mono Mix on the 1999 "Restored" edition DVD release. I don't think the mix was available on the 25th Anniversary Divimax Edition DVD.

It's been a long time since I have owned the 1999 DVD and if that included the Filtered Mono Mix then that would mean it was Chace Productions that did all of the original work to the audio sources and digital copies of these have been ported over to every other release since then (Mono Mix & Surround Mix). It makes sense because both the Mono Mix and the Surround Mix suffer from the same issues: limited, thin & muffled sound.

[CreasyBear]

If there's a link to the Criterion LD mono track, could someone please PM me.

EDIT: Thank you!

[moviebuff75]

The mono track sounds like other mono films I heard at the theater. They sounded canned and hollow. TV broadcasts were brighter and more alive. Just my experience.

[JCRW82]

Originally Posted by moviebuff75

The mono track sounds like other mono films I heard at the theater. They sounded canned and hollow. TV broadcasts were brighter and more alive. Just my experience.

Of course a mono mix is going to have certain limitations but there are some fantastic ones out there (especially when the age of blockbuster films arrived in the 70's) and many of them hold the original mono mix as the definitive reference track. Look no further than Jaws and The Terminator, the mono mixes are dynamic and powerful and put the surround mixes to shame. Same goes for Halloween, just listen to the youtube video of the 5.1 mix vs Criterion Mono mix. The filtered mono track we have had for the last 20+ years offers the illusion that the mono mix is a product of its time, that it sounds wimpy and small and completely dated. The reality is the mix was completely mishandled in the mastering stage. A very easy problem to fix yet no one is willing to do it.

[L'armée des ombres]

What about the mono on the original DVD release ? there´s no Chace Productions logo on there
https://www.blu-ray.com/dvd/Halloween-DVD/116834/

[JCRW82]

Originally Posted by L'armée des ombres

What about the mono on the original DVD release ? there´s no Chace Productions logo on there
https://www.blu-ray.com/dvd/Halloween-DVD/116834/

I have never seen nor owned that version of Halloween (I still would have been watching movies on VHS in 1997). I think Anchor Bay went to Chace Productions in 1999 to handle the sound for the 2nd DVD edition.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by moviebuff75

The mono track sounds like other mono films I heard at the theater. They sounded canned and hollow. TV broadcasts were brighter and more alive. Just my experience.

That's why I kind of chuckle about this. I completely understand the "controversy", and completely get why people want the clearly (no pun intended) superior track. However, what makes me laugh a little is that if it is the "authentic original theatrical experience" folks are after, the one from the 2014 DVD is probably a heck of a lot closer to what people actually heard in a theater in 1978.

[Vixen of the Night]

Originally Posted by JCRW82

Of course a mono mix is going to have certain limitations but there are some fantastic ones out there (especially when the age of blockbuster films arrived in the 70's) and many of them hold the original mono mix as the definitive reference track. Look no further than Jaws and The Terminator, the mono mixes are dynamic and powerful and put the surround mixes to shame. Same goes for Halloween, just listen to the youtube video of the 5.1 mix vs Criterion Mono mix. The filtered mono track we have had for the last 20+ years offers the illusion that the mono mix is a product of its time, that it sounds wimpy and small and completely dated. The reality is the mix was completely mishandled in the mastering stage. A very easy problem to fix yet no one is willing to do it.

I agree! This is what those who think mono means "inferior/low quality/muffled/tin-can" audio quality don't seem to understand.

I also saw some movies theatrically in mono via revival screenings, like Repo Man and Friday the 13th(1980), which sounded excellent in theaters and in mono.

So the mono = "inferior" mindset needs to STFU and get outta here. It's the reason so many studios don't take audio mixes seriously and only include surround tracks for mono films.

[BobSimms]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

That's why I kind of chuckle about this. I completely understand the "controversy", and completely get why people want the clearly (no pun intended) superior track. However, what makes me laugh a little is that if it is the "authentic original theatrical experience" folks are after, the one from the 2014 DVD is probably a heck of a lot closer to what people actually heard in a theater in 1978.

Original mono soundtrack in the best possible fidelity, is what people want. If that means it would sound better than it did in 1978 theaters, I think we could live with that.

[BNex99]

Originally Posted by mar3o

But what's the point of the original audio design when it's filtered and sounds muffled? I mean I do get the point, but there's no denying a heavily filtered audio track like that does not exactly stay faithful to how they originally designed it. Like Black Christmas, sure it contains the original mono, but the track is damaged and sounds pretty rough - to the point where I wouldn't exactly call it the original sound design, considering the siblance issues.

It's all a matter of preference, but at some point there's something to be said for a crystal clear remix vs a muffled original audio track. But I certainly dislike when those remixes aren't respectful of the original source material.

I agree that using the best available source material would be ideal, and 2014 box set mono does sound more compressed than the Criterion LD, but not to the point of misrepresenting the original sound design.

And realistically, a 35mm optical mono track from 1978 would have been at least a generation or two removed from the magnetic master, and probably would have had some of the highs and lows rolled off. In a sense, this was basically an analog version of "compression."

So an uncompressed digital file straight off the magnetic master would technically sound much better than most 35mm prints, and possibly reveal more imperfections than the sound designers intended. It's similar to how a straight scan of a film negative might reveal more detail than the filmmakers meant to be seen, and so some digital manipulation might be warranted.

All that said, it would be great if SF could get hold of the better source for the audio, but they've got to make decisions based on their own resources and their own cost/benefit analyses.

And I guess we all have our own thresholds for what we'll accept. Having heard both the Criterion LD and the 2014 box set mono for H1, I'd prefer the former, but I can live with the latter.

[JCRW82]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

That's why I kind of chuckle about this. I completely understand the "controversy", and completely get why people want the clearly (no pun intended) superior track. However, what makes me laugh a little is that if it is the "authentic original theatrical experience" folks are after, the one from the 2014 DVD is probably a heck of a lot closer to what people actually heard in a theater in 1978.

The sound experience in movie theaters is a mixed bag, even up to today with brand new movie releases. I remember going to see The Dark Knight Rises and being unable to understand most of the dialogue in the film because the sound was so poor. I had to watch that one at home to get a better perspective of the mix. Yet I have had fantastic experiences at the theater too.

When I was allowed to go see Terminator 2 in the theater, that film sounded fantastic. Makes sense that the film won an Academy Award for Best Sound in 1991, yet they never seem to include that award winning CDS Surround Mix in any of the home video releases. Isn't that a bit insulting to the sound engineers involved with the film? It's honestly a shame how many films have the audio spectrum completely neglected or take the revisionist approach and deem the original mixes irrelevant. Halloween is just one of the many films to suffer that fate.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by BobSimms

Original mono soundtrack in the best possible fidelity, is what people want. If that means it would sound better than it did in 1978 theaters, I think we could live with that.

Like I said, I completely get it - it's just a funny side note to think about.

[JCRW82]

Originally Posted by BNex99

I agree that using the best available source material would be ideal, and 2014 box set mono does sound more compressed than the Criterion LD, but not to the point of misrepresenting the original sound design.

And realistically, a 35mm optical mono track from 1978 would have been at least a generation or two removed from the magnetic master, and probably would have had some of the highs and lows rolled off. In a sense, this was basically an analog version of "compression."

So an uncompressed digital file straight off the magnetic master would technically sound much better than most 35mm prints, and possibly reveal more imperfections than the sound designers intended. It's similar to how a straight scan of a film negative might reveal more detail than the filmmakers meant to be seen, and so some digital manipulation might be warranted.

All that said, it would be great if SF could get hold of the better source for the audio, but they've got to make decisions based on their own resources and their own cost/benefit analyses.

And I guess we all have our own thresholds for what we'll accept. Having heard both the Criterion LD and the 2014 box set mono for H1, I'd prefer the former, but I can live with the latter.

I agree and hope that the next time Shout Factory reissue Halloween (and we know that's going to happen sooner rather than later LOL) they obtain the Original 35mm Magnetic Master Mono Soundtrack and use it instead. Potential licensing restrictions aside, I doubt it would cost SF much to run a fresh, unprocessed A/D transfer of the mag tape. They would need to pay for someone to obtain the tape and maybe a days worth of time to perform the conversion. We're not talking months of work here, more like hours. They also end up with a high bit rate, raw, uncompressed digital copy that can be used for every subsequent release going forward and be a safety backup in case the 35mm tape has an unfortunate accident down the road. Seems worth it to me to go that route for more than just better sound quality.

[BluProofie]

Originally Posted by hungrywives

If we're all loud enough they might. At least I hope so. Shout has a good history of going back and fixing audio issues. That's why I don't understand the people here who are saying, "eh, the 2014 track is good enough." Why not at least put it out there that you want this set to have the best presentation it can? You have nothing to lose. If you don't care about quality why buy the UHD? Why even look at this thread in the first place? Are you just here for the movie quotes?

Well, people were saying the 2014 track was “good enough” for 7 years.

[hungrywives]

Originally Posted by BluProofie

Well, people were saying the 2014 track was “good enough” for 7 years.

And now we know better.