Justice League 4K UHD (2017)

[imsounoriginal]

A lot of complaints Transformers gets is well-deserved, but I always thought the character design was fine. Good guys have color and bad guys (with a few key exceptions) are steel grey. What makes it hard for people to follow is the way Bay shoots/edits the action.

Snyder and Whedon have a better handle on that stuff (not that I don't like Bay, but I'll be honest, he has his weaknesses), so I think JL should be fine in that regard. But I'm still wary of how good this movie will really be. I'm trying to be excited for it but it's been difficult.

[BluRayHiDef]

Originally Posted by BigBlue10989

I know you're a troll, but seriously? Read the comments. Transformers is known for reference quality detail, audio fidelity. However it's character design and movement have and always will be maligned.

The movement has been maligned due to poor camera work and not the quality of the animation (i.e. how realistically the characters move). Why don't you understand this? What is wrong with your brain? Also, the camera work has gotten much better; in fact, it hasn't been an issue since Dark of the Moon.

The Last Knight Clip:

Look at the fluidity of the bots' movements; they look fantastic despite not being created through motion capture. Also, everything is in clear view thanks to good camera work. Hence, there's nothing to complain about.

The Last Knight Clip

[BigBlue10989]

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

The movement has been maligned due to poor camera work and not the quality of the animation (i.e. how realistically the characters move). Why don't you understand this? What is wrong with your brain? Also, the camera work has gotten much better; in fact, it hasn't been an issue since Dark of the Moon.

The Last Knight Clip:

Look at the fluidity of the bots' movements; they look fantastic despite not being created through motion capture. Also, everything is in clear view thanks to good camera work. Hence, there's nothing to complain about.


The Last Knight Clip

Lol, what's wrong with my brain?? I guess talking to trolls like you. Fluidity alone, does NOT make good CGI. Good CGI makes it easier to suspend belief. That's the point of it no? To create what can't be practically created.

By purely comparing Thanos and Steppenwolf, it's easy to see how the latter is inferior, technically speaking of course.

[BluRayHiDef]

Originally Posted by BigBlue10989

Lol, what's wrong with my brain?? I guess talking to trolls like you. Fluidity alone, does NOT make good CGI. Good CGI makes it easier to suspend belief. That's the point of it no? To create what can't be practically created.

By purely comparing Thanos and Steppenwolf, it's easy to see how the latter is inferior, technically speaking of course.

Now you're steering the discussion into another direction, because your point has been proven wrong. We're talking about the animation aspect of CGI and not CGI overall. LMAO, and you call me the troll. What a joke.

[BigBlue10989]

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

Now you're steering the discussion into another direction, because your point has been proven wrong. We're talking about the animation aspect of CGI and not CGI overall. LMAO, and you call me the troll. What a joke.

What are you even talking about????? The original argument was that Steppenwolf looked like crap. The point that we're discussing is whether the lack of mo-cap is a factor. Fluidity is NOT what determines the quality of CGI. In fact it's the opposite.

For example, Andy Serkis' imprecision and imperfections when he walks, and his facial expressions when he talks, brings Caesar to life. For a humanoid villain like Steppenwolf to look so cartoonish is not good and it makes him that much less menacing of a villain.

[NegaScott128]

Hey, isn't this thread about Justice League on UHD?

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

Transformers has never used motion capture and the animation has been brilliant, especially in The Last Knight. You don't need full-body motion capture to animate a character realistically. Also, as far as I am concerned, Steppenwolf's animation is great; I honestly don't see what the problem is. I guarantee you that if the animation were the same but it were revealed to have been done via motion capture, pottyaboutpotter1 would say that it looks fine. It's his knowledge of the fact that it's not full-body motion capture that's affecting this opinion and not actually the quality of the animation.

Actually the animation in Transformers is awful. There's no weight or sense of scale to character movements. It's why Pacific Rim was a much stronger giant robot film. There was a real sense of weight to the movements. When dealing with characters on a huge scale, there has to be a sense of weight to the movements to indicate that. The Transformers instead run and jump around like they weigh nothing at all.

And it's not because I know it's not motion capture. In fact I thought the animation on Steppenwolf looked off, then I researched and then learned it wasn't motion capture. It's the problem a lot of fully CGI characters have; the movements often aren't right enough and the characters don't seem to weigh anything, which makes them feel at odds with the scene. And it's ultimately the major flaw with CGI characters who don't have motion capture or puppetry to work from; it's hard to create weight for something that doesn't have weight.

If Justice League had used some motion capture of Hinds, his movements would look a lot better as well as having a better feel of weight. It would also have enhanced the performances of the actors as it would have given them all something to play off. Avengers: Infinity War will likely have a more imposing antagonist in Thanos because Josh Brolin was actually there on set playing the character via motion capture. Ultron was an imposing antagonist because James Spader was actually on set and according to reports some of his more memorable moments were on set improv in response to the other actors.

Doomsday in Batman v Superman was done through motion capture so I'm confused as to why Snyder would not do the same for Steppenwolf, a much more prominent character.

I'm sure if Whedon had been in charge from the start, Steppenwolf would have been portrayed through either live-action actor digitally enlarged or motion capture.

[OI8T12]

Someone please shut this thread down before it get's worse?

[BluRayHiDef]

Originally Posted by pottyaboutpotter1

Actually the animation in Transformers is awful. There's no weight or sense of scale to character movements. It's why Pacific Rim was a much stronger giant robot film. There was a real sense of weight to the movements. When dealing with characters on a huge scale, there has to be a sense of weight to the movements to indicate that. The Transformers instead run and jump around like they weigh nothing at all.

And it's not because I know it's not motion capture. In fact I thought the animation on Steppenwolf looked off, then I researched and then learned it wasn't motion capture. It's the problem a lot of fully CGI characters have; the movements often aren't right enough and the characters don't seem to weigh anything, which makes them feel at odds with the scene. And it's ultimately the major flaw with CGI characters who don't have motion capture or puppetry to work from; it's hard to create weight for something that doesn't have weight.

If Justice League had used some motion capture of Hinds, his movements would look a lot better as well as having a better feel of weight. It would also have enhanced the performances of the actors as it would have given them all something to play off. Avengers: Infinity War will likely have a more imposing antagonist in Thanos because Josh Brolin was actually there on set playing the character via motion capture. Ultron was an imposing antagonist because James Spader was actually on set and according to reports some of his more memorable moments were on set improv in response to the other actors.

Doomsday in Batman v Superman was done through motion capture so I'm confused as to why Snyder would not do the same for Steppenwolf, a much more prominent character.

I'm sure if Whedon had been in charge from the start, Steppenwolf would have been portrayed through either live-action actor digitally enlarged or motion capture.

Do you know how boring it would be to watch Optimus Prime and all of the other transformers punch, kick, and throw one another slowly? The quick movements of the bots were the result of a conscious decision that Bay made in order to make the fights fun and entertaining. Slow movements work well for Pacific Rim, because the Jaegers are the size of Godzilla and would therefore look quite comical if they were to move quickly. However, Transfomers aren't that large; yes, they are much larger than humans, but they aren't anywhere near the size of Godzilla. Furthermore, they are alien robots, which means that they are composed of advanced technology that could explain why they move more quickly than we'd expect them to.

Having said all of this, it must be understood that movements at the pace of a snail are not necessary to indicate weight. Weight can be indicated via the sound foot steps, the force behind punches and kicks, and - since you're so concerned with speed - the perceived speed of movement when viewed from afar, all of which the Transformers movies employ. Take a look at Prime running from 0:09 to 0:13 and notice how much slower he appears to move, and listen to the sound of his steps; this short snippet conveys just how heavy he is.

AoE Clip

[Dubstar]

what the hell ??

[Sky_Captain]

[The_Donster]

Originally Posted by NegaScott128

Hey, isn't this thread about Justice League on UHD?

Which I'm wondering why we're even talking about it? The movie hasn't even come out or been announced for preorder

[imsounoriginal]

This thread is about the JL/Transformers crossover. Have you all not been paying attention? smh

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by BluRayHiDef

Do you know how boring it would be to watch Optimus Prime and all of the other transformers punch, kick, and throw one another slowly? The quick movements of the bots were the result of a conscious decision that Bay made in order to make the fights fun and entertaining. Slow movements work well for Pacific Rim, because the Jaegers are the size of Godzilla and would therefore look quite comical if they were to move quickly. However, Transfomers aren't that large; yes, they are much larger than humans, but they aren't anywhere near the size of Godzilla. Furthermore, they are alien robots, which means that they are composed of advanced technology that could explain why they move more quickly than we'd expect them to.

Having said all of this, it must be understood that movements at the pace of a snail are not necessary to indicate weight. Weight can be indicated via the sound foot steps, the force behind punches and kicks, and - since you're so concerned with speed - the perceived speed of movement when viewed from afar, all of which the Transformers movies employ. Take a look at Prime running from 0:09 to 0:13 and notice how much slower he appears to move, and listen to the sound of his steps; this short snippet conveys just how heavy he is.

AoE Clip

Moving with weight isn't about moving slow. It's about the character having the right sense of weight that they feel they occupy the space instead of being added in later. Height also has nothing to do with it.

Optimus Prime in Transformers: The Last Knight is 30ft according to Hasbro.

King Kong in the 2005 King Kong film is 25ft.

Kong moves with a lot more weight than Prime and feels like he occupies the space.

Optimus Prime feels weightless and you are always reminded he was added in after the fact.

You are always aware Optimus Prime is a CGI character because he doesn't move with enough weight for his scale. They make him sound heavy, but this isn't reflected in the visuals. In fact they're just lazy. Transformers continually take everyone by surprise without being in vehicle form, despite the fact it's impossible for a Transformer to sneak up on anyone because of the amount of noise it would make.

Michael Bay even made an effort to obey the laws of physics and mass when making the first movie; by making sure no robot would "change mass" when transforming as they would only have vehicle forms that their robot forms could theoretically change into. This rule was dropped for the sequels so it's no surprise then that the first movie is the only one where the Transformers move with the required weight and mass; as it's the only one where they made an effort in that department.

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

This thread is about the JL/Transformers crossover. Have you all not been paying attention? smh

I can't wait for the post-credits scene where the Batmobile transforms into Megatron to set up the sequel.

[RalphoR]

Flash actually looks like a Transformer. Anyways.....nothing in this thread is going to decrease my excitement for JL. Once in the theater and seeing it in full motion it's going to be awesome.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by pottyaboutpotter1

I can't wait for the post-credits scene where the Batmobile transforms into Megatron to set up the sequel.

Justice League v. Transformers: Dawn of Deafness

[RalphoR]

81f87b6458e170e7bc199f0c2a61bdb3--dc-injustice-hq-dc.jpg


"Trust me. This movie won't suck. If you think it does you can kiss my....."


aa158021a20b01874add79a0565314d9--the-flash-comic-the-flash-art.jpg

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Justice League v. Transformers: Dawn of Deafness

Transformers: Revenge of the Justice League: The End of Quality Cinema

[ROSS.T.G.]

Another thread ruined. Hahaha