The Ten Commandments 4K UHD (1956)

[hanshotfirst1138]

Originally Posted by CarlosMeat

I think if you are an atheist you will find this film at best uninteresting and at worst offensive.

If you are generally a believer in a higher power even if that is unspecific I think you will find it inspiring and a great film.

I don’t really think you have to be religious to enjoy it. You can just enjoy it on the level of an enjoyably kitschy piece of filmmaking with a really cool command of cinematic technique. The narrative of the Exodus has a strong archetypal power and you can appreciate things like the cinematography or the acting. It’s not like it’s a Pureflix movie or something. I’m a lapsed Catholic (at best) and I find a lot of cool things to enjoy it. Is it silly? Sure. But that’s sort of the point.

[Juan de Internet]

Originally Posted by The Admiral

I'm sorry but, as hard as I'm trying, I just can't make sense of what you're saying. I'm not Jewish, I'm not a woman, and I found Disobedience to be a really good, moving movie with brilliant actors. The film is 99% about being a (lesbian!) woman in the context of orthodox Judaism. It's just a good movie, mate, I don't need any background knowledge or any cultural connection to its core themes to enjoy it. I never checked my phone once thinking "Man, that woman is rebelling against orthodox conventions because she's a free spirit and she loves a girl! I don't care about those conventions, I'm not Jewish and I'm not a gay chick... hey, I think I'm going to check my phone now."

I'm not at all criticising or having a go at you, Juan, we're just having a chat about different perceptions and viewpoints, that's all

Thanks for engaging in constructive conversation. I'll try to explain it further.

Like I said in my first post on this subject, I find The Witch a compelling movie despite it being at least as much focused on Christianity as The Exorcist and The Ten Commandments. I feel it motivates its characters and actors sufficiently such that the book knowledge I know of Puritanism and its relationship with Witchcraft is enough to immerse myself in their story and have some empathy for what they are going through.

I do not experience the same immersion in The Exorcist, and, to a lesser extent, The Ten Commandments. (I think Exodus is just a more compelling story on its own terms than The Exorcist is.) Let me just limit this to The Exorcist, then. I do not find the plot or what the characters are going through very compelling. So I might ask myself, why don't I find them compelling?

In large part because unambiguously supernatural things happen for an extended part of the movie. I personally do not believe in demon possession, so I am taken out of the movie when characters do things I find unbelievable.

So then I might ask myself why others might feel the movie is compelling when I do not. I don't think those who don't share my opinion are stupid or ignorant or didn't watch the whole film. Instead I look to the possibility that the difference in our opinions might stem from the different backgrounds we bring to the conversation that is watching a movie. And the most obviously relevant context to The Exorcist is knowledge of Catholicism that people not exposed to that faith as children don't share.

That is to say, coming to the conclusion that prior knowledge of a primary subject of a movie may lead to a further appreciation of it is not logically equivalent to saying that you have to be Catholic to appreciate The Exorcist. I'm saying that, for people who already do not find The Exorcist to be compelling, they have reason to think that some others may find it more compelling than they do in part because they have prior exposure to the world it deals with.

It's no different than some people not liking the movie The Lord of the Rings and thinking that others who do and have read the novels might appreciate it more because they're filling in blanks and context and texture that was left out of the movie. They may be wrong for any particular lover of Peter Jackson's movies, but it's not a logically-incoherent thing to think.

[Geoff D]

So if someone doesn't believe in ghosts I guess Ghostbusters is off the table as one of their all-time favourite movies? That's me done for

[Martoto]

Originally Posted by Juan de Internet

Exactly. For many moviegoers, a movie needs to either motivate its characters and their actions or else relies on what the viewer brings to the table for it to be compelling. Different people bring different experiences and viewpoints to their viewing of a movie, and some of them find some movies more compelling because of what they bring to the table.

I never hear anyone blame their lack of background in any other subject but religion if the movie didn't sufficiently prompt them to care about it regardless.

[Led Zappa]

I watch it like I'm watching Raiders of the Lost Ark. I watched Raiders when it came out and it has a certain nostalgia for me now. I saw this at a much younger age years after it was made and it has a different kind of nostalgia for me. Both are great films. I don't look at either as a documentary of things from our history. Just stories based on things from our history.

[Areyakiddin]

Originally Posted by Juan de Internet

Exactly. For many moviegoers, a movie needs to either motivate its characters and their actions or else relies on what the viewer brings to the table for it to be compelling. Different people bring different experiences and viewpoints to their viewing of a movie, and some of them find some movies more compelling because of what they bring to the table.

Since you're asking my opinion, I think Star Wars does a better job of motivating the characters and their actions than The Exorcist does. Star Wars contains an explanation of what the Force is and to some extent how it works and how the characters use it. But you're right that I hold Star Wars to the same criteria, and to the extent that it leaves its supernatural elements undermotivated, I don't think Star Wars is particularly compelling either.

Why should a person raised in a non-Christian society be inherently interested in a story about dispossessing a child? Or that a man came down from a mountain with ten rules for how Jews should live their lives? Can you maybe see how a Buddhist or Hindu would not be interested in that subject matter? And that they would need the movie itself to make them interested in such topics?

And that some of them may draw the conclusion that maybe the difference between them not finding a movie compelling while others do might be because the movie assumes its viewers have a belief system they do not share?

If a Christian background is not the reason for the different appraisals of these obviously Christian-subject movies, what do you propose is? That some other background difference is the reason? And note that I'm not saying a Christian background is a probable explanation for different appraisals of The Exorcist or The Ten Commandments, only that it is a reasonable opinion to think that it is.

Y'all, this whole conversation you're having just makes me think you really have a bias against movies that have fantastical elements in general.

Especially questioning how a "person raised in a non-Christian society be inherently interested in a story about dispossessing a child". Does one have to believe in vampires or werewolves to be interested in horror movies featuring those creatures?

Also, what do you think the two hours of this movie that take place before Moses talks to a burning bush is trying to do if it isn't specifically designed to set-up, motivate, and get people interested in the main characters? Most of that ain't in the Bible.

[aladdin123]

A film's themes and struggles don't need to be necessarily relatable to my life and culture, but how they affect the characters. Ozu's films, for example, tie universal themes of generational conflict and kids leaving their parents into the specific struggles of 1950s japanese culture and social pressures.

Some people demand that a film be directly relatable to them. I've seen people actually criticize a film like Brief Encounter because "I don’t speak like them, I don't get these 1940s rigid moral and social conventions that they are bound to, so I'm bored by the film and find it all silly, why don't they have sex?". I've seen too often bad Letterboxd film reviews whose criticism boils entirely to "this film isn't relatable to me", whether that "me" be culture, "modern audience", whatever. And I don't think that's fair. If you need easy relatability in art, you are limiting its scope and restricting it to the lowest-common denominator.

[DavidRoylance]

I have a friend who is a psychiatrist and 100% atheist. He is also a member of the Atheist Church Choir. All the choir are aetheist. All the choir love church music. His favourite piece of music in the whole world - Handel's Messiah. Still 100% does not believe in God or Christ as his son.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DavidRoylance

I have a friend who is a psychiatrist and 100% atheist. He is also a member of the Atheist Church Choir. All the choir are aetheist. All the choir love church music. His favourite piece of music in the whole world - Handel's Messiah. Still 100% does not believe in God or Christ as his son.

I think that's the point: "belief" is not a prerequisite to enjoy art in whatever form.

[apricissimus]

I don't think you have to necessarily believe in some particular faith to enjoy art that comes from that faith. But if you do believe, surely that colors your experience somewhat. Right? I bet if I were a devout Christian, I would enjoy Bach's masses even more than I already do (all else being equal).

[CrimsonLegionVMCXIX]

I'm apathetic to religion as a whole and I love The Ten Commandments, Ben-Hur, Prince of Egypt, Passion of Christ, Kingdom of Heaven, and enjoy horror films with strong Catholic themes.

Relatability and belief aren't needed to enjoy artistic efforts. They're not even needed to have a deep understanding or appreciation for said artistic efforts.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

So if someone doesn't believe in ghosts I guess Ghostbusters is off the table as one of their all-time favourite movies? That's me done for

I believe in ghosts, but not in busting them

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by apricissimus

I don't think you have to necessarily believe in some particular faith to enjoy art that comes from that faith. But if you do believe, surely that colors your experience somewhat. Right? I bet if I were a devout Christian, I would enjoy Bach's masses even more than I already do (all else being equal).

If you do believe, then great! But if you don't, it shouldn't be the single touchstone which means you can enjoy a movie or not. Aliens, gods, demons, ghosts and goblins, it all comes under an expression of faith and we've all got faith in something...right? Shirley that's a part of the human experience that's universal, unless someone's mind is set up to be so unerringly logical that it cannot process such a thing.

[HeavyHitter]

If belief (whether philosophical, religious, political, cultural, etc.) were a requirement to enjoy films, I would have to throw away most of my collection and maybe look for a different hobby.

[sojrner]

[sfmarine]

Just wanted to say that I love Independence Day but don't believe in ET.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

If belief (whether philosophical, religious, political, cultural, etc.) were a requirement to enjoy films, I would have to throw away most of my collection and maybe look for a different hobby.

Same. I love moving picatures for the glimpses they give me into different times, different worlds, different cultures, different belief systems and so on. Not that I'm some fart-sniffing cineaste who's seen every film ever, good lord no, I'm a total wh0re for glossy Hollywood bollocks and certainly have genres I do and don't like - but is religion a genre in itself? Biblical epic, certainly, but when The Exorcist gets thrown into the mix becuz the devil and whatnot then the lines get a bit blurry.

But as someone just said, it often seems to be religion that comes to the forefront in discussions like this as it's such a powerful force that it generates an equally powerful pushback - dare I say revulsion? - in some folks. Aliens and ghosts and monsters definitely have their fans for sure but don't have entire belief systems that have shaped the world around us - for better or worse - for several thousand years.

[MifuneFan]

If y'all thought this version was controversial, just wait till you see the new iteration the numbskulls at Amazon have come up with

https://www.amazon.com/COMMANDMENTS-...dp/B0FQQP66WD/

[gates70]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

If y'all thought this version was controversial, just wait till you see the new iteration the numbskulls at Amazon have come up with

https://www.amazon.com/COMMANDMENTS-...dp/B0FQQP66WD/

Don't see a problem. You weren't aware that Travolta plays Moses?

[Geoff D]

It was a teenage wedding and Moses wished them well