Justice League 4K UHD (2017)

[Phreakuency]

Picked up my copy today, halfway through and it looks good.

Not up there with the best but a nice crisp resolution with lots of details, bright whites, great inky blacks and some decent noise and grain that suits the rooftop/night scenes especially.

Haven’t noticed much in terms of overhead Atmos effects but it certainly sounds good in general. The bank scene with WW was superb though.

I really enjoyed the movie as well. A different tone and visual style (much more like a comic book) than Marvel and there is certainly no reason you can’t enjoy both.

[Jay Mammoth]

Originally Posted by Vict

Is the movie at least, for lack of better words, entertaining/watchable like mortal kombat 95 or Freddy vs. Jason 03? Or is it boring and crappy like Batman vs superman and suicide squad?

Way better than crap like Mortal Kombat. It’s awesome like Batman V Superman.

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by Vict

Is the movie at least, for lack of better words, entertaining/watchable like mortal kombat 95 or Freddy vs. Jason 03? Or is it boring and crappy like Batman vs superman and suicide squad?

It's a frankenstein of a film. It's a mix match of several conflicting visions, has a poorly written plot where things happen for narrative convenience rather than stemming naturally from the story (if you don't like movies where characters act like idiots for the sake of the story, you won't like this), a lead actor who looks like he'd rather be doing anything else, shockingly terrible CGI, it makes all the wrong decisions to fix the problems people have had with DC (it mistakenly believes "more jokes" is the solution to everything), it has perhaps the worst villain in a modern superhero movie (worse than Malekith), makes some terrible decisions regarding character (Flash and Aquaman are relegated to being entirely comic relief), doesn't do anything significant with anyone bar Batman and Wonder Woman (to the point the rest of the team could have been swapped out with any other superheroes from DC's roster and the film would have been exactly the same) and is overall more focused on cool moments than storytelling and character. There is some good moments scattered throughout but the entire film is just a mess.

Basically imagine a film that looked at Marvel and learned all the wrong lessons (lots of comedy, bright colour palette, poorly handled villain etc.) and believes those are the reasons Marvel succeeds. How much you enjoy it depends on how satisfied you are by superficial elements (visuals, cool moments, comedy) and how much you can forgive major failings in storytelling, character development and filmmaking craft.

If you're just looking for a film that has the Justice League in it, you'll be satisfied. If you're looking for a good superhero team up film, you'll be better served watching one of the Avengers films again or watching one of DC's many animated Justice League movies.

I'll finish by saying this; there's a reason why the film has had a massive backlash by critics and audiences and it's all to do with the quality of the film.

[BrandonJF]

Originally Posted by pottyaboutpotter1

It's a frankenstein of a film. It's a mix match of several conflicting visions,

Which you would never have "noticed" had you not gone into the movie knowing the production's history...

has a poorly written plot where things happen for narrative convenience rather than stemming naturally from the story (if you don't like movies where characters act like idiots for the sake of the story, you won't like this),

How about an example and how it is different from these "Avengers" movies you recommend people go watch instead?

a lead actor who looks like he'd rather be doing anything else, shockingly terrible CGI,

What are you calling out as far as the CG goes? The digitally removed mustache you never would've known about if it hadn't been brought up before release? Steppenwolf, who looks no worse than the CG in any of these Marvel or Star Wars movies?

it makes all the wrong decisions to fix the problems people have had with DC (it mistakenly believes "more jokes" is the solution to everything),

Just because it has "more jokes" than "Batman v Superman" hardly means it thinks it's the "solution to everything". It's definitely not an all out comedy like "Spider-Man : Homecoming" or "Thor Ragnarok".

it has perhaps the worst villain in a modern superhero movie (worse than Malekith),

The only one of your points I can get behind. Not that it "ruins" the movie for me, but the movie would've been better served with a decent villain. I still can't believe anyone thought "Steppenwolf" was a good villain for a "Justice League" movie.

makes some terrible decisions regarding character (Flash and Aquaman are relegated to being entirely comic relief),doesn't do anything significant with anyone bar Batman and Wonder Woman (to the point the rest of the team could have been swapped out with any other superheroes from DC's roster and the film would have been exactly the same) and is overall more focused on cool moments than storytelling and character.

Those are valid points that I'm fine with... as long as the same complaints are levied against every single one of Marvel's movies this year (maybe excusing "Black Panther" to some degree, even though I feel the praise for that one is so hyperbolic).

Basically imagine a film that looked at Marvel and learned all the wrong lessons (lots of comedy, bright colour palette, poorly handled villain etc.) and believes those are the reasons Marvel succeeds.

"Justice League" had a "bright colour palette" (I'm guessing this is geared towards the "changed" sky color in the end)? It didn't have "lots of comedy", either. It definitely had MORE than usual, but this was not a Marvel laugh-fest (neither was "Black Panther", but it was the only Marvel movie in 2018 that wasn't a comedy).

What exactly ARE the lessons Marvel can teach super hero movies? The large majority of them are so incredibly safe and adhere to the same template. Whether you liked them or not, what was refreshing about Snyder's DC movies was that they were at least trying something different. "Justice League" was definitely a cookie-cutter super-hero movie. It was tighter narratively than the 2018 Marvel comedies (Guardians 2, Thor, Spider-Man), which were all over the place. Did Hela in Thor really make much more of an impact than Steppenwolf? Not to me. Well, maybe a little because she was at least Cate Blanchett. But, her impact on the story was as great as Steppenwolf's.

Don't get me wrong - I like the Marvel movies, too. But, the only reason most of them are so well liked/reviewed is because people find them funny or cool to look at. It isn't because of the amazing stories or three dimensional characters. A Marvel character just needs a couple of lines to be considered "deep" or to rationalize some sudden change in attitude/behavior.

[Dirk504]

Originally Posted by Mr. Forest

If you didn't like BvS or SS, then you should stay far away from JL.

I like BvS and Mortal Kombat... so I'm sure I'll like this lol.

[pottyaboutpotter1]

Originally Posted by BrandonJF

Which you would never have "noticed" had you not gone into the movie knowing the production's history...

I actually would have done. The Dark Tower, Spider-Man 3 and X-Men Origins: Wolverine for example felt like Frankenstein movies to me and I was not aware of their production history before watching them.

Originally Posted by BrandonJF

How about an example and how it is different from these "Avengers" movies you recommend people go watch instead?

I don't say go watch Avengers instead. I say if you're looking for a well done superhero team up, watch Avengers OR one of DC's animated Justice League movies. I recommend them because they are stronger in terms of narrative and character than Justice League. A superhero team up movie has to actually develop the characters or it's just a bunch of people in costumes running around punching nameless CGI baddies. This is why Avengers and the DC animated movies work, because they manage to flesh out the characters or manage to make every character feel three-dimensional.

Originally Posted by BrandonJF

What are you calling out as far as the CG goes? The digitally removed mustache you never would've known about if it hadn't been brought up before release? Steppenwolf, who looks no worse than the CG in any of these Marvel or Star Wars movies?

The moustache looks awful, people who weren't aware of it noticed it. Steppenwolf looks like a video game character and a bad one at that. The CGI in general is miles behind what you see in a typical Star Wars or Marvel film. While Marvel may not have 100% perfect CGI all the time, they do manage to make sure that CGI doesn't stick out too much. Steppenwolf is just awful.

Originally Posted by BrandonJF

Just because it has "more jokes" than "Batman v Superman" hardly means it thinks it's the "solution to everything". It's definitely not an all out comedy like "Spider-Man : Homecoming" or "Thor Ragnarok".

So wait, Aquaman wasn't saying stuff like "My man!" to try and make the film funnier? Batman wasn't cracking jokes? The film shoves as many jokes as it can in at any opportunity. The film even manages to cram jokes in what should be fairly tense sequences.

Originally Posted by BrandonJF

The only one of your points I can get behind. Not that it "ruins" the movie for me, but the movie would've been better served with a decent villain. I still can't believe anyone thought "Steppenwolf" was a good villain for a "Justice League" movie.

I think it does hurt the film significantly. Because Steppenwolf is such a terrible antagonist, it makes it difficult to care if the Justice League stop him.

Originally Posted by BrandonJF

Those are valid points that I'm fine with... as long as the same complaints are levied against every single one of Marvel's movies this year (maybe excusing "Black Panther" to some degree, even though I feel the praise for that one is so hyperbolic).

Why would it be levied against Marvel's films? Marvel is incredible talented at balancing a large cast and making sure every character earns their place in the film. Every major(ish) character gets character development or focus and everyone has something unique to contribute. There's been very few times I feel a character in a Marvel film could have been swapped with any other character and the film that I feel suffered the most from that was Avengers with Hawkeye. But in a team of six, one character being "replaceable" was fine as the other five were all done incredibly well especially since Hawkeye doesn't join the Avengers until the third act. The film would have been significantly different if you replaced characters. It would have lost a major part of what made it so good if Cap, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk or Black Widow weren't there. The reason Avengers works so well is because those characters, and specifically that combination of characters, works together incredibly well and any tension in the team is natural. Compare to Justice League where Batman and Wonder Woman are the only characters who receive focus and all the others, Aquaman, Flash, Cyborg and even Superman could have been replaced with any other characters and the film would have been exactly the same.

Originally Posted by BrandonJF

"Justice League" had a "bright colour palette" (I'm guessing this is geared towards the "changed" sky color in the end)? It didn't have "lots of comedy", either. It definitely had MORE than usual, but this was not a Marvel laugh-fest (neither was "Black Panther", but it was the only Marvel movie in 2018 that wasn't a comedy).

The film was a lot brighter than the other DCEU films. The scene on Themyscira stuck out to me as one that seemed incredibly brighter than how it was portrayed in Wonder Woman. They forced a lot of humour. Marvel movies aren't laugh-fests (really only Guardians, Ant-Man and Thor fit that). And I didn't realise you'd seen Infinity War and thus know it's a laugh a second comedy

Originally Posted by BrandonJF

What exactly ARE the lessons Marvel can teach super hero movies? The large majority of them are so incredibly safe and adhere to the same template. Whether you liked them or not, what was refreshing about Snyder's DC movies was that they were at least trying something different. "Justice League" was definitely a cookie-cutter super-hero movie. It was tighter narratively than the 2018 Marvel comedies (Guardians 2, Thor, Spider-Man), which were all over the place. Did Hela in Thor really make much more of an impact than Steppenwolf? Not to me. Well, maybe a little because she was at least Cate Blanchett. But, her impact on the story was as great as Steppenwolf's.

Marvel can teach these lessons; finding the right tone for each movie. You can't claim Winter Soldier and Ragnarok fit the same template. Or even Ant-Man and Guardians of the Galaxy. Each film is different enough that it manages to feel unique. Another lesson; CHARACTER. The reason people flock to each Marvel movie is because Marvel has done excellent character development. People care about the characters. See how people are now worried it's been confirmed someone will die in Infinity War and will be dead for good? Notice how Captain America has had one of the strongest arcs in modern superhero movies across the movies he's appeared in? How character traits are defined and characters stay in character in every film they appear in? How Tony Stark remains a snarking but caring hero who feels a great amount of responsibility? Compare to Batman who goes from a murderous brooding and brutal vigilante to a wise-cracking, snarky, emotional superhero in Justice League. It's not consistent. Justice League did not have a tighter narrative than Marvel's 2017 films. Everything that happens in those films ties into the film's overall themes (Guardians = Family and acceptance, Homecoming = acceptance, Ragnarok = identity, acceptance, heroism). The common theme in all three movies was acceptance. Justice League would like to be a film about hope, but this theme is so vaguely represented that the narrative is so incredibly loose trying to fit around it. Hela was a better villain than Steppenwolf because she tied directly into Thor: Ragnarok's themes. Steppenwolf does not tie into Justice League's themes apart from a vague "Fear vs Hope" that is never explored narratively or thematically.

Originally Posted by BrandonJF

Don't get me wrong - I like the Marvel movies, too. But, the only reason most of them are so well liked/reviewed is because people find them funny or cool to look at. It isn't because of the amazing stories or three dimensional characters. A Marvel character just needs a couple of lines to be considered "deep" or to rationalize some sudden change in attitude/behavior.

Way to misunderstand Marvel's appeal. If the movies were well liked/reviewed due to jokes and cool visuals, Justice League would be rolling in cash. Instead it suffered a box office performance that is embarrassing at worst and incredibly disappointing at best. Marvel is best at character and story. That's why people keep coming back. Justice League was a mess of a film narratively. I'm not trying to make this a Marvel vs DC debate, but the reason Marvel keeps succeeding is because they keep making good films and make audiences care about the characters. Marvel characters don't go through changes in attitude or behaviour through a couple of lines. Development is spread over an entire film (or multiple films). Captain America, Iron Man, Black Widow, Hulk, Thor, Loki, Spider-Man, Star Lord, Gamora, Nebula, Rocket, Ant-Man, Black Panther, Doctor Strange and others have all gone through significant character development that ties thematically into each movie they've appeared in. The same can't be said for DC's characters who change personality to suit whatever movie they're in. Wonder Woman is the only character who has actually been consistent in terms of character.

[Geoff D]

Leaving the DC/Marvel pissing contest aside, JL is an unholy mess of a film. It's enjoyable enough if taken in the right spirit and the viewer's baggage is checked at the door, but a masterpiece it is not. I don't need to know about problems behind the scenes to be able to spot reshoots from a mile away, not simply Supes' hastily removed face furniture but stuff like Ben Affleck's freshly botoxed boat race, those BLATANT greenscreen inserts during several scenes etc etc.

[Haywardson]

Entertaining movie but zero consistency with previous characterizations and also it totally is a Frankenstein of a film fof sure.

The reshoots are so painfully obvious. Were my eyes playing tricks or was the scene where Batman is lying down post-Superman fight saying something is broken very clearly a green screen insert lol. Also the Brunch monologue, the coloring of the scene and Ezra Miller’s appearance suddenly jarringly looks different.
It’s like The Dark Tower where every other scene that Jake kid’s hair was a different length and color.
Disappointing to say the least. Was the film taken away from Snyder or did he legitimately leave the film post tragedy? It kinda seems like he wanted to finish it and WB decided they wanted to alter the film due to audience reaction. Super unfortunate. Id rather a coherent vision regardless of quality quite honestly rather then a Frankenstein of a film with obvious pick-ups and blantant inconsistencies throughout the film.

[henry00x]

Originally Posted by Haywardson

Entertaining movie but zero consistency with previous characterizations and also it totally is a Frankenstein of a film fof sure.

The reshoots are so painfully obvious. Were my eyes playing tricks or was the scene where Batman is lying down post-Superman fight saying something is broken very clearly a green screen insert lol. Also the Brunch monologue, the coloring of the scene and Ezra Miller’s appearance suddenly jarringly looks different.
It’s like The Dark Tower where every other scene that Jake kid’s hair was a different length and color.
Disappointing to say the least. Was the film taken away from Snyder or did he legitimately leave the film post tragedy? It kinda seems like he wanted to finish it and WB decided they wanted to alter the film due to audience reaction. Super unfortunate. Id rather a coherent vision regardless of quality quite honestly rather then a Frankenstein of a film with obvious pick-ups and blantant inconsistencies throughout the film.

if you look back in this thread i posted the story, Snyder was fired from the project and is not going to be directing any DC films going forward, execs said his cut of the film was "unwatchable" before they brought in Whedon for reshoots

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Mr. Forest

If you didn't like BvS or SS, then you should stay far away from JL.

Originally Posted by Jay Mammoth

Way better than crap like Mortal Kombat. It’s awesome like Batman V Superman.

I hated BvS but loved SS. I also happen to love MK. Wonder Woman was okay I guess. Don't like either of the Avengers movies at all.

I wonder if I will like JL? Didn't see it in theaters as planned after all. Not so sure whether to blind buy it or not now. Haven't been keeping up with this thread (or the one in the "movies" section) but judging from the trailers, it seems to me humor plays a large role in the movie. If it's like SS then I don't mind but if it's the all out Marvel way, then I know I don't need to bother.

[bookcase]

Originally Posted by DJR662

Not so sure whether to blind buy it or not now. Haven't been keeping up with this thread (or the one in the "movies" section) but judging from the trailers, it seems to me humor plays a large role in the movie. If it's like SS then I don't mind but if it's the all out Marvel way, then I know I don't need to bother.

I'll blind buy eventually because I enjoy these movies for what they are, but the reactions in this thread (and in general, really) lead me to believe it's not worth blind buying at $30. I can wait.

[imsounoriginal]

I enjoyed JL in theaters but looking back on it, I've soured a bit since then. Need to see it again without all the hype from the screening I went to, but I don't plan on buying this right away.

[xbs2034]

Originally Posted by DJR662

I hated BvS but loved SS. I also happen to love MK. Wonder Woman was okay I guess. Don't like either of the Avengers movies at all.

I wonder if I will like JL? Didn't see it in theaters as planned after all. Not so sure whether to blind buy it or not now. Haven't been keeping up with this thread (or the one in the "movies" section) but judging from the trailers, it seems to me humor plays a large role in the movie. If it's like SS then I don't mind but if it's the all out Marvel way, then I know I don't need to bother.

I'd say the film it is probably closest to in style and tone is Age of Ultron (no doubt some of the Whedon influence), so if that's not your type of movie, not sure you'll enjoy this.

Personally I hated SS, though this and BvS are pretty similar to me, I enjoyed them both despite some obvious flaws, though they have different strengths/weaknesses

[meatball_84]

The problems with the movie are made worse if you k ow everything that went on behind the scenes. The movie is not awful like Fan4stic, but it was not up to par if you really enjoyed Snyder's previous DC movies. It was way to short and the score was a major downgrade. I can still watch it, but I don't love it. Steppenwolf isn't as bad as he is made out to be, but was probably much more intimidating in Snyder's cut. The CG on him was 2 or 3 passes from being done, not bad, but sub par for a movie of this scale. Mustachegate is very real, it's bad. You can tell many of the reshoot scenes due to awful green screen, unfinished cgi, and actors that clearly did not want to be there or agree with the changes. Apparently Whedon was brutal to the actors on set. You can tell the level of give a damn between takes. Especially from Affleck.

I give Justice League a 6/10. And for reference, both Man of Steel and BvS are 9.5's for me. Wonder Woman is 8.5, Suicide Squad is probably about a 5, maybe lower

[Anthos]

Got my steelbook early!

[AdubW1982]

Anyone that's already received their copy, have you watched it yet to see what the 1 extra scene is?

[Nice Guy Eddie]

After everything I've read/heard about JL I'm starting to wonder if I should even bother to get/watch it at all. If I do buy it I'll have to get it tomorrow because I'd want the SB but $35+ is steep.

[Kylo8791]

Originally Posted by AdubW1982

Anyone that's already received their copy, have you watched it yet to see what the 1 extra scene is?

I watched the 4K last night and the extra scene wasn’t on that disc so I’m guessing it’s just on standard Blu-ray...

[AdubW1982]

Right on. Is that on the 4k disc as well or just Blu-ray?

[meatball_84]

Originally Posted by AdubW1982

Anyone that's already received their copy, have you watched it yet to see what the 1 extra scene is?

Both scenes have been online for awhile now. Don't think there were any others on the disk. It was the scene in the ship with the black suit, and the scene with Alfred and Superman. Both excellent in my opinion and should have been in the theatrical version, or at least added to the movie for home release