The Hobbit Trilogy 4K UHD Extended & Theatrical (2012-2014)

[dcx4610]

Theoretically if they were to release these in 60fps, does anyone know the technical side behind converting 48fps to 60fps? Would it just insert blank frames?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by dcx4610

Theoretically if they were to release these in 60fps, does anyone know the technical side behind converting 48fps to 60fps? Would it just insert blank frames?

That would make it look like it was flickering, so no. As mentioned they could employ 3:2 pulldown, the system that's been used to make 24fps fit into 60Hz NTSC for all these years by adding duplicated fields/frames, only it would make it visibly juddery which is kinda the thing that HFR is meant to correct, not to make it worse.

They could use the process they employed when creating the 24fps versions of the Hobbitses, i.e. they interpolated new frames from existing ones rather than just chopping out half of the 48 because the motion just didn't look right otherwise. But this would be adding frames rather than taking away, and interpolating a 60fps version of 48fps content across 9 hours would not be quick or cheap so I just don't think it's going to happen. Hobbitses will just be straight upscales of the 2K 24p masters IMO.

[slask]

So, 2K upscales..? :\

Forgive my ignorance, I don't know how these things work, but there's no chance they can make new DIs from the original footage?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by slask

So, 2K upscales..? :\

Forgive my ignorance, I don't know how these things work, but there's no chance they can make new DIs from the original footage?

They shot it at 5K, but what resolution they shot on and what they ultimately output the finished product to are two different things. The Hobbitses were finished at 2K, they were finishing in 48fps 3D as well so that was already four times as much data as a regular 2K show, doing it in 4K48 3D at the time just wasn't feasible as that would've been 16 times as much data as a 2K24 2D workflow!

Essentially the movies are in the same situation as, say, Phantom Menace, and indeed any movie shot on film or >2K video but finished at 2K:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yep, I mean TPM preceded the full DI process, inclusive of colour grading, by a year or two (so it got a photochemical grade once the filmout was printed to positive back in the day) but it essentially had the same thing as modern movies as far as the digital VFX pipeline was concerned: so much of the movie has a CG element that the best quality version of those final shots - all but 170 out of over 2000 shots - is the 2K digital master tapes, NOT any kind of film-based version.

That's not to say that nothing can be rebuilt in 4K as it was done for The Martian, albeit with 2K upscaled VFX and that's kinda the problem with the Hobbitses, Star Wars prequels and the like: SO many shots have some sort of CG element and/or digital tinkering that the vast majority would be locked to 2K anyway. On movies of this scale it's too expensive to grab the original 5K plates/rescan the film and then re-render and recomposite the CG back into literally thousands of shots. Even when Sony do their 4K rebuilds of 35mm 2K DIs they upscale the VFX, credits etc, it's why the end credits for Bad Boys II look so janky while the main body of the newly rebuilt movie looks stunning.

[slask]

Thanks for this stuff, very detailed and super interesting, although it's bad news..

Will it be the same for LOTR tranfers?

[brainofj72]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Essentially the movies are in the same situation as, say, Phantom Menace, and indeed any movie shot on film or >2K video but finished at 2K

Do you mean the other prequels? I believe TPM was finished photochemically, no?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by brainofj72

Do you mean the other prequels? I believe TPM was finished photochemically, no?

Did you not actually read what I posted? TPM had a photochemical grade, it being 1999 when it was released, but the fact remains that the vast majority of the movie is derived from 2K master materials. Could you scan the 2K filmout negative in 4K? Sure you could. Would it be any higher quality than returning to the actual 2K master tapes for a direct digital ingestion? No, it would lose a fraction of quality which is why when they did the 3D conversion they returned to those 2K files and not any kind of film source. I'm not making this up.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by slask

Thanks for this stuff, very detailed and super interesting, although it's bad news..

Will it be the same for LOTR tranfers?

The LOTR movies are basically in the same boat, yes, as is any 2K-finished movie. However they have much less of a reliance on CG than the Hobbitses so there would be more incentive to go back and rescan the camera negative for non-VFX shots. Add to that the issue that the LOTR movies were very early DIs and have certain baked-in problems that won't look good in HDR - Two Towers has some nasty noise reduction in places because they were struggling with the grain in the DI - and I do actually hope that they're being redone.

[levcore]

Rewatched the extended cuts over Christmas, i still say these movies are amazing and almost as good as LOTR.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by levcore

Rewatched the extended cuts over Christmas, i still say these movies are amazing and almost as good as LOTR.

I honestly love all six, they make for an incredible cinematic saga.

[levcore]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I honestly love all six, they make for an incredible cinematic saga.

Absolutely, can't beat them.

It's time PJ made another movie.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by levcore

Rewatched the extended cuts over Christmas, i still say these movies are amazing and almost as good as LOTR.

I also watched The Hobbit trilogy again during the Holidays, in 3D ofcourse!

Desolation Of Smaug is by far my favorite, as it has great execution of the storyline and equally great 3D. I particularly like that both the adventure and mystery aspect is very well done in this movie.

The first one is good too, albeit the many moments of childish humour ruined the moment for me. Five Armies is spectacular, but it gets repetitive after a while.

I'm hoping these will be 24p on UHD, otherwise I'll pass...

[JimDiGriz]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I honestly love all six, they make for an incredible cinematic saga.

Have you read 'Peter Jackson & The Making of Middle-Earth' by Ian Nathan, Geoff? I'm just getting to the end of it - great book and really makes me want to watch the whole lot again!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JimDiGriz

Have you read 'Peter Jackson & The Making of Middle-Earth' by Ian Nathan, Geoff? I'm just getting to the end of it - great book and really makes me want to watch the whole lot again!

Is it the one titled 'Anything You Can Imagine'? Yes, I got it a couple of years ago. Excellent read.

[Gacivory]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Is it the one titled 'Anything You Can Imagine'? Yes, I got it a couple of years ago. Excellent read.

It is! Agreed, loved it!

[JimDiGriz]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Is it the one titled 'Anything You Can Imagine'? Yes, I got it a couple of years ago. Excellent read.

Yep that's it. A must read for any fans I'd say.

[Brian81]

I'll pick these up for the HFR. If they're 24fps, might as well stick with the 3D. Which I'll end up preferring anyways.

[gkolb]

RIP Christopher Tolkien. Age 95. Born November 21, 1924.

A war veteran, scholar, and creative force behind The Silmarillion and The Fall of Gondolin being published.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Brian81

I'll pick these up for the HFR. If they're 24fps, might as well stick with the 3D. Which I'll end up preferring anyways.

No guarantee that they'll have HFR. 48 into 60 doesn't go.

[Gillietalls]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

No guarantee that they'll have HFR. 48 into 60 doesn't go.

Yeah I don't know where the HFR releases of these movies came from.