List of International BDs with Better PQ, AQ, and/or More Extras

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

but sometimes the change from TrueHD to DTS-HD MA can really help, depending on your amp, I guess.

Huh?


Lossless is lossless - and in terms of resolution the TrueHD track is also 24-bit.

[Early Memphis]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Huh?


Lossless is lossless - and in terms of resolution the TrueHD track is also 24-bit.

Not only are you not allowing for the difference in the action of the amps (how old, what were they originally set up for, how updated are their various codec "readers/translators", etc.), but you're ignoring the fact that a great many remasters have switched from TrueHD to DTS. There must be a reason for that, yes, and I've seen it mentioned as a factor in improved sound in several reviews. I know that my amp (too old as it is), for whatever reason, seems to favor DTS, whereas TrueHD tracks are a little less powerful.

[tenia]

Count me in the people who think that this is just another example of placebo effect.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

Not only are you not allowing for the difference in the action of the amps (how old, what were they originally set up for, how updated are their various codec "readers/translators", etc.), but you're ignoring the fact that a great many remasters have switched from TrueHD to DTS. There must be a reason for that, yes, and I've seen it mentioned as a factor in improved sound in several reviews. I know that my amp (too old as it is), for whatever reason, seems to favor DTS, whereas TrueHD tracks are a little less powerful.

A simple volume adjustment (usually 4dB) renders the difference moot. Trouble is most reviewers don't bother to do that, and many people perceive "louder is better". Hence the crunched dynamic range of most music these days. BTW: a 3dB difference will have an amp putting out double the power. So at the same level the DTS-MA will be louder.

If a codec can decode TrueHD & DTS-MA, again it's the same - they are decoded to uncompressed PCM.

DTS-MA tracks are a lot easier and faster to author. Time is money. That is how Dolby lost the BD market. With Atmos the tables have turned.

[Early Memphis]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

A simple volume adjustment (usually 4dB) renders the difference moot. Trouble is most reviewers don't bother to do that, and many people perceive "louder is better". Hence the crunched dynamic range of most music these days. BTW: a 3dB difference will have an amp putting out double the power. So at the same level the DTS-MA will be louder.

If a codec can decode TrueHD & DTS-MA, again it's the same - they are decoded to uncompressed PCM.

DTS-MA tracks are a lot easier and faster to author. Time is money. That is how Dolby lost the BD market. With Atmos the tables have turned.

Really, you can change the volume? Hey, thanks, I didn’t know that! Gimmie a break with these ass-umptions, please. You’re normally very sharp when discussing BDs, but my entire comment on this (not worth all this time and space) was based on amp differences - “depending on your amp, I guess” - and it was an obvious supposition. Also, I admitted up front that I was “probably just looking for a reason to "upgrade". ”

However, assuming that people are too stupid to adjust their volume - on a site where folks post about adjusting their color temp, etc. all the time is … bizarre. Like most people, when it’s too low for my taste, whatever that might be on any given day/BD, I turn it up - and when it’s too loud, I turn it down. I play my discs on an Oppo and I love my player, but I hate my tired, old Sony amp - which is why I'm looking again.

Way back when I last searched to buy an amp, I recall several discrepancies in the advertising for which codecs an amp was qualified to decode. Over time these codecs are updated, but rarely do most folks search for updates for their amplifier - [if] it's updatable. So, please, don’t give me “placebo effect” - different amps are going to handle different things differently - especially when you consider the age, expense and quality of the amp. I don’t always agree with the reviewers here, but I assume they have solid, modern equipment, yet I’ve seen them mention this change as a factor - and I’m pretty sure they know how to adjust their volume.

In the end, it’s a change, and given the “art” of encoding, it was reason to hope for a possible improvement and ask if “anyone (has) heard them both [which you, apparently, have not] (and can) say anything about whether one AQ is superior or not” - or are we to assume as well that all encoding jobs, like all amps, are equal? I assume ... not. If I buy the DE release, I’ll post what I perceive - after carefully adjusting the volume, of course. So can we please get back to reality now?

[HD Goofnut]

I raised the volume of my center channel a few years ago and it made a world of difference.

[linger63]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I will add the IT disc, but the DE disc has better compression: http://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a...92004&i=10&l=1

The IT disc is also missing lossless audio.

FWIW.....Missing ENGLISH lossless audio but has a 5.1 PCM ITALIAN track.

[linger63]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

Not only are you not allowing for the difference in the action of the amps (how old, what were they originally set up for, how updated are their various codec "readers/translators", etc.), but you're ignoring the fact that a great many remasters have switched from TrueHD to DTS. There must be a reason for that, yes, and I've seen it mentioned as a factor in improved sound in several reviews. I know that my amp (too old as it is), for whatever reason, seems to favor DTS, whereas TrueHD tracks are a little less powerful.

Some AVR and Pre/Pro models including my Integra DHC 80.3 actually default to AUTO in "Late Night Mode" when initially fed a Dolby TrueHD audio stream.

Manually changing it to OFF restores full dynamics and IME and IMHO........sounds better.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...kyo-avr-s.html

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

However, assuming that people are too stupid to adjust their volume - on a site where folks post about adjusting their color temp, etc. all the time is … bizarre.

You mentioned reviews. You didn't say who was reviewing and where.
And even on this site, it's rare someone will say they adjusted for volume differences.

Way back when I last searched to buy an amp, I recall several discrepancies in the advertising for which codecs an amp was qualified to decode. Over time these codecs are updated, but rarely do most folks search for updates for their amplifier - [if] it's updatable. So, please, don’t give me “placebo effect” - different amps are going to handle different things differently - especially when you consider the age, expense and quality of the amp.

Well you need to update the terminiology - amps are just that - amplifiers. You're talking receivers. It's only in recent times they could be updated for Dolby Atmos and DTS:X or Auro3D which we're not talking about here. It's been about a decade since TrueHD and DTS-MA receivers were available and even then most weren't "updateable" as you're talking about. Firmware updates addressed bugs and other issues (remember the "DTS bomb"?) - they didn't add capability until fairly recently.

In the end, it’s a change, and given the “art” of encoding, it was reason to hope for a possible improvement and ask if “anyone (has) heard them both [which you, apparently, have not] (and can) say anything about whether one AQ is superior or not” - or are we to assume as well that all encoding jobs, like all amps, are equal? I assume ... not. If I buy the DE release, I’ll post what I perceive - after carefully adjusting the volume, of course. So can we please get back to reality now?

There's no "art" of encoding here, it isn't like video.
It's PCM in, it's PCM out with TrueHD and DTS-MA. If they sound different it has to be either a different master - or volume level difference (or Late Night as mentioned).

[Early Memphis]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

[Show spoiler]You mentioned reviews. You didn't say who was reviewing and where.
And even on this site, it's rare someone will say they adjusted for volume differences.

Well you need to update the terminiology - amps are just that - amplifiers. You're talking receivers. It's only in recent times they could be updated for Dolby Atmos and DTS:X or Auro3D which we're not talking about here. It's been about a decade since TrueHD and DTS-MA receivers were available and even then most weren't "updateable" as you're talking about. Firmware updates addressed bugs and other issues (remember the "DTS bomb"?) - they didn't add capability until fairly recently.

There's no "art" of encoding here, it isn't like video.
It's PCM in, it's PCM out with TrueHD and DTS-MA. If they sound different it has to be either a different master - or volume level difference (or Late Night as mentioned).

Peter, last thing I want is to argue with someone whose opinion I respect. It was not a good morning and I felt I was being set up as a straw dog - normally I woulda/shoulda jus let it go. As it is, I meant what I said - money's tight right now, but I'm looking into getting a new amp (I always think of receivers as those things which included radios - which I loathed). I'll gladly check out any recommendations. HD had me looking for an Onkyo 709 (with an all-speaker button/switch), but it's apparently OOP and Onkyo was no help figuring out which current models had such a feature. So, still looking and saving up. There's not much choice locally and I hate buying something online which I can't hear first, but ...

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

Peter, last thing I want is to argue with someone whose opinion I respect. It was not a good morning and I felt I was being set up as a straw dog - normally I woulda/shoulda jus let it go. As it is, I meant what I said - money's tight right now, but I'm looking into getting a new amp (I always think of receivers as those things which included radios - which I loathed). I'll gladly check out any recommendations. HD had me looking for an Onkyo 709 (with an all-speaker button/switch), but it's apparently OOP and Onkyo was no help figuring out which current models had such a feature. So, still looking and saving up. There's not much choice locally and I hate buying something online which I can't hear first, but ...

Well, beware the xx9 Onkyo series. They had wonky HDMI boards, at least my 809 has - it's failed twice now. Fortunately it's been moved to a secondary location and not my primary which is a Denon X6300H with Atmos/DTS:X 7.1.4 (with available Auro3D upgrade - if I want to spend $200 for an inferior format with next to nothing available in the USA).
You want an All Speaker output option - for mono sources?

[Early Memphis]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Well, beware the xx9 Onkyo series. They had wonky HDMI boards, at least my 809 has - it's failed twice now. Fortunately it's been moved to a secondary location and not my primary which is a Denon X6300H with Atmos/DTS:X 7.1.4 (with available Auro3D upgrade - if I want to spend $200 for an inferior format with next to nothing available in the USA).
You want an All Speaker output option - for mono sources?

Yeah, I can't deal with 1.0 audio playing on nothing other than the center mid-ranger. I have to play 1.0s on headphones - and while I love movies on headphones, not mono movies. Mono 2.0 uses all the speakers on this Sony. Truth be told, my whole current speaker setup is meh, so I default to my nicer headphones most of the time. It's only stereo, but it's very enveloping.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Well, beware the xx9 Onkyo series. They had wonky HDMI boards, at least my 809 has - it's failed twice now. Fortunately it's been moved to a secondary location and not my primary which is a Denon X6300H with Atmos/DTS:X 7.1.4 (with available Auro3D upgrade - if I want to spend $200 for an inferior format with next to nothing available in the USA).
You want an All Speaker output option - for mono sources?

My 709 has worked flawlessly for five years now. I did have an Onkyo 606 that had one of those cheap faulty Chinese HDMI boards though. It lasted about four years.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

Yeah, I can't deal with 1.0 audio playing on nothing other than the center mid-ranger. I have to play 1.0s on headphones - and while I love movies on headphones, not mono movies. Mono 2.0 uses all the speakers on this Sony. Truth be told, my whole current speaker setup is meh, so I default to my nicer headphones most of the time. It's only stereo, but it's very enveloping.

I don't understand why you don't have something equivalent to Full Mono on your receiver.

[Early Memphis]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I don't understand why you don't have something equivalent to Full Mono on your receiver.

Because it's a crap Sony receiver with 3 soundfields - none of which do that and all of which sound like a cheap fifties Japanese transistor radio.

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

My 709 has worked flawlessly for five years now. I did have an Onkyo 606 that had one of those cheap faulty Chinese HDMI boards though. It lasted about four years.

If you ever see a 709 listed somewhere (or a newer version you believe in) ... beam me up, Scottie.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

Because it's a crap Sony receiver with 3 soundfields - none of which do that and all of which sound like a cheap fifties Japanese transistor radio.



If you ever see a 709 listed somewhere (or a newer version you believe in) ... beam me up, Scottie.

I haven't seen a new one in a couple years unfortunately.

[Early Memphis]

I’m putting together another Amz.de order. The BDs below are all region A titles listed with Best PQ or AQ or both. I own US versions of all but a couple and, unfortunately, cannot afford to get the whole dirty dozen right now, so … are there any BDs on this list that you feel are seriously better, in motion, than their US counterparts? In other words, which half-dozen or so should I focus on first? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Coming To America
Crank
Fistful of Dollars/Few Dollars More
+1-Fury
+1-Gladiator
+1-A Good Year*
Kick-Ass
Kiss of the Dragon
On the Waterfront
Prisoners
+1-Rambo-First Blood
+1-The Sixth Sense
... *no US release

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

I’m putting together another Amz.de order. The BDs below are all region A titles listed with Best PQ or AQ or both. I own US versions of all but a couple and, unfortunately, cannot afford to get the whole dirty dozen right now, so … are there any BDs on this list that you feel are seriously better, in motion, than their US counterparts? In other words, which half-dozen or so should I focus on first? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Coming To America
Crank
Fistful of Dollars/Few Dollars More
Fury
Gladiator
A Good Year*
Kick-Ass
Kiss of the Dragon
On the Waterfront
Prisoners
Rambo-First Blood
The Sixth Sense
... *no US release

I know for a fact Rambo and The Sixth Sense look better than the US discs because I own them. I also own A Good Year and it has very good PQ and AQ.

[Early Memphis]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

I know for a fact Rambo and The Sixth Sense look better than the US discs because I own them. I also own A Good Year and it has very good PQ and AQ.

Thank you, + votes recorded. A Good Year is something I’ve wanted for quite some time (I must've sold my DVD). The Fistful double feature is definitely in (from posting here and emailing every seller on eBay: about 2 out of 3 say it’s RF, the rest strictly maintaining it’s B, like Amz.de says).
I think I’ll trust the List on Kick-Ass as it’s so visual. Fury made me remember all the “black crush” complaints of the time and the List says not on the DE, so … Lastly, I’m really pulling for Gladiator as it’s one of my all-time faves, but, unless an owner of both vouches for it, I have a hard time believing that it would be much better in motion than the corrected US release.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

Thank you, + votes recorded. A Good Year is something I’ve wanted for quite some time (I must've sold my DVD). The Fistful double feature is definitely in (from posting here and emailing every seller on eBay: about 2 out of 3 say it’s RF, the rest strictly maintaining it’s B, like Amz.de says).
I think I’ll trust the List on Kick-Ass as it’s so visual. Fury made me remember all the “black crush” complaints of the time and the List says not on the DE, so … Lastly, I’m really pulling for Gladiator as it’s one of my all-time faves, but, unless an owner of both vouches for it, I have a hard time believing that it would be much better in motion than the corrected US release.

Yeah, I have the DE discs of Fury and Gladiator and can vouch for them as well.