Films shot in Dolby Vision?

[kristoffer]

I have not been able to find any films either being shot or that has been shot in the new Dolby Vision format?

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolog...by-vision.html

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

I have not been able to find any films either being shot or that has been shot in the new Dolby Vision format?

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolog...by-vision.html

Is current technology up to filming it or dsplaying it? The light output is much higher, so something taking it in would probably have to be digital - anathema to old-school Hollywood.


Vizio's 120" 4K television was vaporware (no surprises, they're notorious for that) but it was the only unit I've heard of that was using the Dolby technology for the set. It had people floored, it was so sharp and bright. That's all I've seen for home playback - perhaps everybody is waiting for a serious 4K market to develop, nothing else will do justice for it.


In theaters, can projectors keep up?


I hope it gets popular, I've heard amazing things.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

I have not been able to find any films either being shot or that has been shot in the new Dolby Vision format?

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolog...by-vision.html

Motion pictures aren’t really ‘shot’ in Dolby Vision, more like (can be) ‘mastered’ in an extended (high) dynamic range format, be it Dolby Vision or other. There is a short film which should debut at a film festival next year which was ‘mastered’ in high dynamic range on a DaVinci Resolve 11 – https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/pro...davinciresolve , shot by a former President of the American Society of Cinematographers and Husky (dog) lover . Who also worked on the DCI StEM Digital Projection Test material, as described several years ago -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In that regard, the StEM (movie short) was a collaborative effort between American Society of Cinematographers and DCI. More than two hours of film were captured in 35mm (and to be completely accurate, a small amount in 65 mm also) by a world-class team of ASC cinematographers. The footage featured a bunch of scenes with a variety of lighting conditions, colors, textures and other variables of photographic definition including rain, confetti, fog, smoke, etc. The footage accumulated was intentionally made to stress the system (i.e. theatrical presentation of the imagery). It was edited down to a mini-movie consisting mostly of 35mm original source and a little bit of 65mm. Eastman negative 5218 (think Van Helsing) was the primary stock and 5245 was used for the shot tilting down from the sky.

The location was Uni’s “European Village" backlot with a wedding scene (b.t.w., the groom in a tuxedo and the bride in a wedding gown is a great way to test blacks and whites) set-up similar to the one in The Godfather. The StEM material also includes some 4k CGI from Disney’s Treasure Planet.

[Richard Paul]

I have to say that Dolby is doing a good job of promoting their HDR system. While I would prefer more details on what they mean when they talk about more colors the Dolby Cinema website is well made.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Motion pictures aren’t really ‘shot’ in Dolby Vision, more like (can be) ‘mastered’ in an extended (high) dynamic range format, be it Dolby Vision or other. There is a short film which should debut at a film festival next year which was ‘mastered’ in high dynamic range on a DaVinci Resolve 11 –

To get the full effect of Dolby Vision wouldn't everything (filming, CGI, post-production) have to be made with it? Excluding conversions done after the movie is completed that sounds like it would be costly.

[steve1971]

Now this is something I would be interested in.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I have to say that Dolby is doing a good job of promoting their HDR system. While I would prefer more details on what they mean when they talk about more colors the Dolby Cinema website is well made.

I don't get what that mini-site is about, since Dolby does not build theatres. It showed a theatre rendering with acoustic panels, but without any surround or ceiling speakers and then it presented Atmos incorrectly, since it showed lines emanating from the screen to the ceiling and surrounds, instead of the ceiling and surrounds emanating to the seats. And really, who needs all that A/V in the corridor leading into the theatre - you'd spend $1 million or more for a spot that most patrons wouldn't spend more than 20 seconds standing. And you know that super-wide display would be used for advertising. I'd rather they spend that money in the theatre itself for better sound, projection or showmanship.

That theatre design looked more appropriate to a museum exhibit. I bet that site was designed out-of-house, by an agency that didn't really know what they were doing.

While the overall Dolby website has gotten more interesting from a graphic design standpoint, it's far less practical - it's harder to find the information you're looking for, harder to find theatre or film listings and harder to find product brochures than it used to be.

As far as more colors are concerned, they do say it's got to be 10 or 12 bit. But they don't say if they'll be following BT2020 or some new standard. I can say that I've seen the Dolby monitor and it's quite amazing. The colors in that monitor are breathtaking. And this encoding format, whatever it is, does require decoding (and license) in the playback device, but I don't think Dolby has anything "real" as yet.

[slimdude]

Dolby is forevermore trying to compete with themselves. What else are they going to come up with!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by slimdude

Dolby is forevermore trying to compete with themselves. What else are they going to come up with!

http://patents.justia.com/assignee/d...ng-corporation

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

I don't get what that mini-site is about, since Dolby does not build theatres.

I think it is mainly to get people interested in the idea of Dolby Cinema and to try to sell that idea to theater owners.

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

As far as more colors are concerned, they do say it's got to be 10 or 12 bit. But they don't say if they'll be following BT2020 or some new standard.

It would be nice if Dolby provided more details about Dolby Vision and a bit less marketing fluff. Dolby has released a white paper about Dolby Atmos but they haven't done that with Dolby Vision.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The problem is that with high or extended (as Dolby actually prefers calling it) dynamic range is that it is even less forgiving than shooting in 4K which, in terms of the cost issue which you bring up, could potentially push make-up, set design, etc. to *up their game*. Additionally, I would say that in order to get ‘the full effect’ or the best effect out of Dolby Vision or any high dynamic range solution will be to light the scene in a way that would make the most out of an HDR finish…which could contribute additional cost. And the best way to check the lighting of a scene would be with the use of an HDR on-set monitor, of which, as of now, there is no practical product available for D.P.’s.

The producer can always have a colorist do an HDR pass on a good dynamic range element from a high end modern day digital camera or even film and produce something better than SDR mastering if the Director and colorist work collaboratively at it but, to get the full effect out of any HDR finish I think it would be optimal to have that finish in mind from the get-go and structure the production accordingly…which could incur additional cost. This is all new territory and the learning curve for everyone has just begun.

For something like a nature documentary I could see Dolby Vision being easy to do but for movies it sounds difficult. I would like to see a movie made from the start for Dolby Vision but I get the feeling that most movies will be some kind of HDR conversion. While I would prefer an update to the DCI standard it does seem like Dolby is going to bet a lot on Dolby Vision.

[Bobby Henderson]

Dolby intends to have Dolby Cinema function as a real ''premium" movie-going experience. But, yes, Dolby must first sell movie theater operators and movie studios on the idea for it to get anywhere.

Dolby Cinema will follow a formula somewhat similar to IMAX' approach. Dolby (and perhaps partnering movie studios) would pay for the expensive laser projection and audio hardware going into the theater. The movie theater operator would provide the building. Dolby and its partners would take a cut of the box office money to pay for sound/vision hardware.

Some aspects of who would pay for what are unclear. Would the theater operator have to pay for the fancy signage and huge animated video wall in the auditorium's entrance? If that wall is a LED-based "jumbotron" display it could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars on its own, particularly if it is high resolution.

At any rate, Dolby has to do something to keep its brand visible in movie theaters.

A movie-goer must deliberately go out of his way to find theaters equipped with Dolby Atmos or Dolby 3D. Hollywood studios are doing next to nothing to promote those formats. When you look at a movie poster these days all you see is IMAX and RealD. Dolby Cinema would change that and get the Dolby brand visible once again on movie posters, trailers, etc.

It's still going to be a challenge to get movie productions on board with Dolby Cinema.

Not all that many movies are mixed in Dolby Atmos and of the ones that are released with Dolby Atmos not many of those have mixes which do much with the format. I've seen a few Atmos movies were the track didn't sound much different than a standard 5.1 or 7.1 track. Really "immersive" mixes like the Atmos mix of Gravity are more rare.

I think it's going to be an even bigger challenge getting the Dolby Vision aspect of Dolby Cinema widely supported. I don't like them using "HDR" when describing it. I associate HDR with all those garish, surreal images I see coming from the still photography world. Imagery in Dolby Vision must still look natural. On top of that, it still has to look like a film-originated movie. The top complaint about 48fps HFR shows is that it looks like videotape from a soap opera or the 6 o'clock news. Lots of movies these days have very muted, dreary color schemes. Sometimes they look like a view through a urine filled fish tank. How will Dolby Vision fit in with that? Wider dynamic range may also mean a significantly bigger color bit depth, both in shooting and post production. That's going to raise production costs.

I don't get what that mini-site is about, since Dolby does not build theatres. It showed a theatre rendering with acoustic panels, but without any surround or ceiling speakers and then it presented Atmos incorrectly, since it showed lines emanating from the screen to the ceiling and surrounds, instead of the ceiling and surrounds emanating to the seats.

The speakers will be hidden from view behind all those angled acoustic panels. I don't mind the idea from an aesthetic viewpoint. Some theaters and private screening rooms have been hiding the surround speakers for many years. A Dolby Atmos system has LOTS of surround speakers, probably enough to create at least some issues with sound wave reflections. The Dolby Cinema concept tries to eliminate as much of that as possible.

BTW, the one thing I really do not like in the Dolby Vision concept: the floating screen. It has no masking, much less no curtains. Something shot in HD aspect ratio (1.77:1) or flat (1.85:1) may fill the screen. But 'scope 2.39:1 movies will be letter-boxed, just like on the TV set at home. The screen even looks like the display from one of those late 1970's era projection screen TV sets. I would like the Dolby Cinema concept more if it had a proper masking and curtain setup for the screen, and if the room wasn't so barren and stark looking.

IMHO, Warren Theaters has a better idea of just what the movie-going public wants in theater aesthetics. They're about to open a new $45 million multiplex in Broken Arrow, OK just outside of Tulsa. The two biggest "Grand Infinity" houses have ornate decor and premium balcony seating for adults age 21 and up. Those two houses will be the first in the United States to utilize 4K laser projectors full time to the movie-going public. The sound systems in all 18 screens are THX certified. The Grand Infinity houses will be equipped with Dolby Atmos, wired and amplified in its maximum 64-channel configuration.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I think it is mainly to get people interested in the idea of Dolby Cinema and to try to sell that idea to theater owners...

Wait till they find out the cost of the build out.

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

For something like a nature documentary I could see Dolby Vision being easy to do but for movies it sounds difficult. I would like to see a movie made from the start for Dolby Vision but I get the feeling that most movies will be some kind of HDR conversion.

Well, to keep things in perspective, that wouldn’t be sooo bad, contrary to the rushed-out-the-door early 3D conversions that were produced back in the day.

For one thing, unless one is referring to the HDR conversion (remastering) of old motion pictures (a la Rob Marshall’s Chicago in Dolby Vision), a new motion picture really wouldn’t be an HDR conversion, per se, even if one exactly exposes scenes as you typically would for only a traditional digital cinema finish (standard dynamic range) and then in post production do an ‘HDR’ finish because the HDR finish would actually come first (be your primary grade or hero master) and then with the aid of the DV plugin you’d then do a quick trim pass for other (standard dynamic range) deliverables.

It’s just that in order to get the ‘full’ effect out of any high/extended dynamic range solution that can leverage the broad dynamic range at the sensor level of high end digital cameras, or film, I think there will have to be additional adjustments (incurring cost) on set during the production process.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

To get the full effect of Dolby Vision wouldn't everything (filming, CGI, post-production) have to be made with it? Excluding conversions done after the movie is completed that sounds like it would be costly.

With modern day digital cameras, and even film (celluloid) for that matter, the RAW image already contains the extended dynamic range. Colorists can see it, it’s just that the end user doesn’t with current SDR mastering, e.g. from almost a year ago -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The great value of HDR for imagery comes as no surprise to colorists who have worked with Dolby’s LCD reference color grading monitor, the PRM 4200 or 4220, which some post houses use in their mastering and whose colorists have ever experimented with Dolby’s HDR ACES output display transform to allow movie content to be viewed in HDR and P3 color space while in the DYN operational mode (maximum luminance of 600 nits).

Then, afterwards, when flipping back to traditional non-HDR mode, it’s amazing how much RAW imagery (be it from the Alexa, RED, Sony--whatever high end camera be your acquisition device) is clipped at 100 nits.

The problem is that with high or extended (as Dolby actually prefers calling it) dynamic range is that it is even less forgiving than shooting in 4K which, in terms of the cost issue which you bring up, could potentially push make-up, set design, etc. to *up their game*. Additionally, I would say that in order to get ‘the full effect’ or the best effect out of Dolby Vision or any high dynamic range solution will be to light the scene in a way that would make the most out of an HDR finish…which could contribute additional cost. And the best way to check the lighting of a scene would be with the use of an HDR on-set monitor, of which, as of now, there is no practical product available for D.P.’s.

The producer can always have a colorist do an HDR pass on a good dynamic range element from a high end modern day digital camera or even film and produce something better than SDR mastering if the Director and colorist work collaboratively at it but, to get the full effect out of any HDR finish I think it would be optimal to have that finish in mind from the get-go and structure the production accordingly…which could incur additional cost. This is all new territory and the learning curve for everyone has just begun.

[kristoffer]

Star Wars The Force Awakens could become the first film released in Dolby Vision HDR http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/beh...redirect=false

The Ari Alexa and the new Sony cameras also have the ability to capture the dynamic range of HDR.

[Thomas Irwin]

The Chicago Diamond Edition was apparently mastered in Dolby Vision.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Thomas Irwin

The Chicago Diamond Edition was apparently mastered in Dolby Vision.

apparently

[MrsMiniver]

Originally Posted by Thomas Irwin

The Chicago Diamond Edition was apparently mastered in Dolby Vision.

And Chicago in Dolby Vision has gained almost zero traction since Dolby announced the format. Truth be told, Dolby is desperate for anything as they are no longer the relevant cinema company they once were. This Dolby Cinema is not going to work.

[Penton-Man]

Well, I’d like to see it succeed, at least for the folks in Eindhoven, as I don’t think $18.00/ticket is unreasonable.

[hajiketobu]

They will open the first Dolby Vision Theater this month in the Netherlands, temporarily using 4K laser projectors until the "Dolby Vision-capable ones are ready to ship out next spring".
http://www.engadget.com/2014/12/07/d...ma-imax-rival/

[AVinstallGuy]

I know a few people who got to see some real Dolby Vision projection and they had some info about the first theatres going in as well.

Anyone who has seen the image on the screen has been amazed. The tech demo pat just showing the raw contrast, had people gasping in Vegas. I really wanted to go this year but had other obligations in Illinois so Vegas was off the chart this year. They also ran Pixar's "Inside Out" in Dolby Vision. The "normal" part of the movie in the real world looked like a very good DCI image, but when it went inside the girl's head, the color goes out to rec 2020 with much brighter highlights and far more contrast. I took a look here hoping to see if anyone else on this list saw the Cinema Con demos in Vegas, but I have not found much. I can't wait to check out any movie in this format.

The first theatres are going to be refitted and upgraded AMC Prime sites. Most of them have already been upgraded to Dolby Atmos and have the big chairs and wall to wall screen. They are calling them Dolby Cinema @ AMC Prime and as such it is a little watered down, they are not putting in the cocoon that hides all of the speakers. They are doing any updates that did not fully meet the specs for Atmos and apparently altering the lighting system to remove as much stray light from the screen as possible. I heard mention of working with the local fire marshals to allow dimming the exit signs when the room is dark during the show. This is not new, special venues like planetariums have been doing it for many years. When you are in a very dark space, the signs do not need to be near as bright to be completely visible.

"Tomorrowland" and "Inside Out" are the first 2 features being done in Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos for these theatres. A friend also told me that post processing an image to take advantage of this greater range seems fairly easy. A pass on a color correction system while veiwing it on the Dolby Vision projector will allow the colorist to put back the highlights and shadow blacks that had to be crushed to fit in the normal dynamic range of the current projectors. Think of it like this. When you take a picture, you have to adjust the exposure to fit the important part of the brightness range into the signal range of the camera. Now with Dolby vision in the projector, you can take a very bright image of a sun lit scene for example, and dial it in so the highlights can hit twice as bright as could be shown before, and yet the shadows can still be down in the ink black range. Also a dark scene that needed a big aperture and slow exposure to get enough light on the imager, can now be shown darker and still have details down in the deep blacks.

Even 31 FL and 1,000,000 : 1 contrast is far short of reality, but it is a huge step closer. Just aim a light meter at a parked car on an overcast day, and I bet it is more like 100 FL. Movies at 14 FL rely on your eyes opening up to make it seem bright enough, and then using the 2000:1 contrast range to convey a decent image. Having your eyes adjusted to a brighter image just gives them more room to convey a greater range of difference than could be done before.

The larger color gamut is basically that. Deeper red, green, and blue so that you can more accurately hit more of the colors you could find in real life. Current xenon lit DCI projector green can't even hit real grass, Rec 2020 can. But there is more. The greater light output of each primary, as well as the greater contrast means that the Dolby Vision projector can also maintain greater color saturation up to a higher level of light output.

The best descriptions I have heard all say the same thing, it is impossible to really understand the different until you see it for yourself. And I just can't wait for it. I will be in California soon and will see this thing first hand very soon. I am hoping to do a good compare between the new IMAX laser and the Dolby Vision, but there is no way to do any kind of A-B apples to apples comparison as they are in different buildings playing different content.

Anyone who has seen these for real, please give you opinion here.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by slimdude

Dolby is forevermore trying to compete with themselves. What else are they going to come up with!

How is this competition with themselves? They don't put together whole theatres today and this incorporates existing Dolby Atmos. However, where I do think they compete with themselves is with the numerous different implementation of surround and other formats in the consumer market. I find those numerous offerings confusing and I think they should be consolidated.

Especially during the era of 35mm digital sound when digital presentation was also being introduced, the average consumer couldn't make heads or tails out of the difference between 35mm digital audio and DCP digital presentation.

Originally Posted by MrsMiniver

And Chicago in Dolby Vision has gained almost zero traction since Dolby announced the format. Truth be told, Dolby is desperate for anything as they are no longer the relevant cinema company they once were. This Dolby Cinema is not going to work.

Dolby Cinema may or may not be a viable business (I suspect that it might not be viable in the U.S.), but to say that Dolby is not a relevant cinema company is absurd, IMO. While they are also heavily engaged in broadcast and other industries and they don't break out numbers (at least I haven't found them), their quarterly income is $227 million in the latest quarter and was only $69 million ten years ago. So they've been growing consistently, which makes them very relevant.

It may not be like the analog days where virtually every print was Dolby encoded in one form or another or the 35mm digital days when Dolby beat DTS and SDDS in the market, but they're doing quite fine and even though there aren't a tremendous number of Dolby Atmos installations as yet, it's an industry-leading technology that IMO, makes them very relevant.

And while there are certainly many questions about Dolby Cinema, I'd love to see Dolby compete with IMAX and the other upscale presentation formats, some of which optionally already contain some Dolby technology.

The problem for any cinema technology company today is the consolidation of the chains. If one of the larger chains decides they're not using you, you're screwed.