Sony introduces high-end ZD9 TV series with HDR

[mutelight]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

^^^^

I used to get confused, because an update would come out, and then a week later people would post about an update on AVS. I read somewhere Sony rolls the update out staggered, so that explained that.

Indeed, I seem to be one of those people that gets them someone in between the first and last batch so on a few I flashed the updates via USB once they were downloadable on the website.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by pbz06

Geoff, please post your latest settings

Very similar to the last lot but change contrast to 88 and gamma to -1 in cinema pro, the adjustment to gamma in particular has been a big breakthrough in terms of the fizzy, digital-looking grain I was getting, I can't believe the difference it's made. I elaborated upon it in the Crouching Tiger thread, will quote it here:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Calibration definitely plays a part, the HDR EOTF seems to be very unforgiving to grain if your luminance curve isn't getting the mid-tones correct - that is, the part of the image which lives between the shadows and the highlights (hence the name). My prior calibrations had the lower part of the curve correct but after about 50% brightness it started to lose a fair bit of luminance until it reached the upper peaks of the highlights, I thought I had tons of brightness to spare on the "light cannon" that is the ZD9 so I reckoned I could get away with it. For a while, it was good. Old curve under the spoiler.

[Show spoiler]

Basically the mid-tones were too dark while the highlights were happily blasting away as they would normally be and I think it meant that there was too big of a difference as to how the grain looked in those respective parts of the image, if that makes sense, allowing through less of the "velvety" organic structure of the grain and more of the outright digitally compressed part of it which lives in the highlights. Plenty of newer films looked amazing but I'd put in something like Crouching Tiger and would be knocked sideways by the grain, not "dancing ants" bad but so intensely "digital" looking that it put me right off.

But with my latest recal I dipped the gamma and contrast compared to my prior settings and now get a curve that's still holding firm in the lower areas of luminance but which is now much 'fuller' in the mids whilst toning down the extremes of the absolute peak of the signal, now measuring 1750 nits at its brightest rather than 1900. Freshly calibrated curve under the spoiler.

[Show spoiler]

In a nutshell, I think by making sure that the upper mid-tones are properly illuminated it stops the brightest, 'fizziest' part of the grain in the peaks from dominating the softer, more "velvety" grain in the mids, and the two combine beautifully now. That's not to say grain is gone, it's still plentiful in movies like Crouching Tigger and plenty variable from scene to scene, it just doesn't look as electronically false as it did before.

[vincentric]

Really glad to see you were able to get the grain looking right (or better) on your end. You know I don't hold back on criticisms regarding some of my C7's HDR10/near black performance but I do love how most film based discs look on the OLED particularly the grainy 4K ones from Sony.

[DJR662]

Damn Geoff, make up your mind already.

I can't recall having seen any of the catalogue 4K stuff on my ZD9 (besides The Mummy 1999), I watched all those on the living room XD94 TV. But I will change gamma to -1 then. It's about time to watch Crouching Tiger 4K again anyway, so I will watch it on the ZD9 this time and see what kind of difference it makes with gamma at 0 and -1.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Very similar to the last lot but change contrast to 88 and gamma to -1 in cinema pro, the adjustment to gamma in particular has been a big breakthrough in terms of the fizzy, digital-looking grain I was getting, I can't believe the difference it's made. I elaborated upon it in the Crouching Tiger thread, will quote it here:

Good to know. Since I'm lazy, will this change also stay true for SDR content (saving me from switching regularly)?

[Geoff D]

I like a lower gamma (which = higher setting on the TV) with SDR and contrast at 88 will start to clip whites, so my SDR is unchanged. Cinema home, contrast 80, gamma 0 (that gives you 2.2 gamma, while -1 gives you 2.3 and -2 gives you 2.4, the latter is basically what newer BDs are mastered at anyway).

[elwaylite]

-2 all the way for me. I love a 2.3 to 2.4 gamma.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by pbz06

Good to know. Since I'm lazy, will this change also stay true for SDR content (saving me from switching regularly)?

I still keep HDR, 2D SDR (gamma -2) and 3D SDR (gamma 0) in separate modes. That's why I wish Sony would provide a FW update so the TV automatically goes to the designated picture mode.

[Geoff D]

I was watching the first two CG Resident Evil movies last night (not bad, not bad at all) and when this bit came up in Degeneration I just had to snap a quick pick. Completely dark room, completely dark blacks, this bit looked unreal. Yeah, I know FALD ain't perfect (watch the backlighting shit itself when presented with a starfield) but holy toledo, if you told me 15 years ago I'd ever get blacks (and overall PQ) as good as this from a stinkin' LCD I'd have laughed in your stupid face. Yes, there is a TV in that picture somewhere.

[elwaylite]

Not sure if you have watched Stranger Things on Netflix, but when Eleven goes to see people with her abilities, season 2 episode 4 is WOW. It's the person she is looking for sitting in a chair, and all around her is inky black. Eleven comes walking in across the screen, and you can't see the zones doing anything in the black areas, its amazing.

It also blows my mind that the blacks can do that while in HDR mode...

[Geoff D]

Yeah, it's very impressive although I've noticed that the brighter the light the longer it takes to decay when in HDR mode, it can be a little distracting when there's a hot hot highlight in one part of the screen and it quickly cuts to a much darker shot, the 'bloom' of the light source can be seen to fade away where it previously was on the screen. This might just be a Zed thing though, I don't expect to hear that you see it on your set.

Now that it's getting colder I've noticed that the Zed is a lot more smeary-looking too until the LCD panel is properly warmed up, I watched Baby Driver the other day from cold and the smearing was quite distracting. Again, given the already-mediocre response time of the Zed's panel I don't expect to hear the same thing from you.

[elwaylite]

I can see zone delay if I'm off angle some, but haven't seen it yet on angle. I was so concerned watching UHD blu-ray in a dark room when I bought this, but it's been way over what I thought it would be. Haven't missed the OLED at all.

Now if you sat way off angle, the 940E would be a terrible choice.

[Geoff D]

I see mine head-on.

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I see mine head-on.

Must the difference in zone count and how it controls it then.

[DJR662]

I guess it's fair to say the Z9D is the best LCD TV to date, yes/no?

Really want to get my hands on the 75" model before they aren't available anymore, but on the other hand I am also very curious whether there will be a follow up.

[elwaylite]

No way to tell if another is coming, and just because it is, Sony doesn't always stick with zone counts consistently.

The 940C was excellent, the 940D took a step back and lost a lot of zones. What I tell everyone about these models is, get one if you are in the market. They are proven winners and will have Dolby Vision, no need to wait. Plus sales are incoming this time of year, and January/Feb.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DJR662

I guess it's fair to say the Z9D is the best LCD TV to date, yes/no?

Really want to get my hands on the 75" model before they aren't available anymore, but on the other hand I am also very curious whether there will be a follow up.

It's defintely not perfect but it's certainly the best LCD I've ever seen, for what that's worth.

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Must the difference in zone count and how it controls it then.

Brightness itself is shirley a factor, no? The 75" X940E doesn't get as bright as the 65" ZD9 does, it's still plenty bright but they don't call the Zed a "light cannon" for nothing!

If Sony could come up with a better way to filter out that decaying light along with upping the panel response time and expanding the colour gamut then the Zed series really could become the GOAT of LCD. As you say elway, there may be another one incoming for 2018 but even if they do continue this line there's no guarantee that it won't be a case of two steps forward, one step back.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

No way to tell if another is coming, and just because it is, Sony doesn't always stick with zone counts consistently.

The 940C was excellent, the 940D took a step back and lost a lot of zones. What I tell everyone about these models is, get one if you are in the market. They are proven winners and will have Dolby Vision, no need to wait. Plus sales are incoming this time of year, and January/Feb.

I own a X940D and it's still a mystery to me why Sony lowered the number of dimming zones on that one. I still think the PQ is excellent though but far too many issues including/most importantly the horizontal lines during HDR playback, something which I have pointed out (too? ) many times in the owner's thread on AVS.

Not really interested in DV at this point but 3D is something I require so I guess a 2018 Sony model probably won't do it for me anyway. Nevertheless I am still curious what they will come up with next year.

[CYMBOL]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's defintely not perfect but it's certainly the best LCD I've ever seen, for what that's worth.


Brightness itself is shirley a factor, no? The 75" X940E doesn't get as bright as the 65" ZD9 does, it's still plenty bright but they don't call the Zed a "light cannon" for nothing!

If Sony could come up with a better way to filter out that decaying light along with upping the panel response time and expanding the colour gamut then the Zed series really could become the GOAT of LCD. As you say elway, there may be another one incoming for 2018 but even if they do continue this line there's no guarantee that it won't be a case of two steps forward, one step back.

The X940E also has the decaying light. It is a little distracting if I watch a movie in the dark. Otherwise, amazing PQ.

[elwaylite]

I've never seen it on mine. And my OCD causes me to try and hunt it out, why I dont know. You would think I would just enjoy it.

I actually have seen it for clarification, but not when Im dead nuts on at 9 feet, if I get a little off angle, you can see stuff working.