Sony introduces high-end ZD9 TV series with HDR

[Member-425016]

Is 1500 Nits the cap for the 65" model?

I was watching Aquaman (HDR is truly to die for on this one) and although it has a peak nit brightness of 4,000 authored on disc, my Sony won't go beyond 1,500, and I thought I read that it could achieve 1,700 Nits possibly higher.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Filmfan73

Is 1500 Nits the cap for the 65" model?

I was watching Aquaman (HDR is truly to die for on this one) and although it has a peak nit brightness of 4,000 authored on disc, my Sony won't go beyond 1,500, and I thought I read that it could achieve 1,700 Nits possibly higher.

FYI, 4000 is the Max on that container, in no way do the contents have to fill it.
They can have a 700 max nit movie in a 4000 nit container.

[Member-425016]

Originally Posted by gkolb

FYI, 4000 is the Max on that container, in no way do the contents have to fill it.
They can have a 700 max nit movie in a 4000 nit container.

I will most likely own a 4,000 nit TV in the future, and The Aquaman disc locked at 1,500 is a bit of a letdown.

Not that what I'm seeing now is unimpressive, but still.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Filmfan73

Is 1500 Nits the cap for the 65" model?

I was watching Aquaman (HDR is truly to die for on this one) and although it has a peak nit brightness of 4,000 authored on disc, my Sony won't go beyond 1,500, and I thought I read that it could achieve 1,700 Nits possibly higher.

Aquaman doesn't have a peak brightness of 4000 nits, that's just the mastering display level. The Maximum Content Light Level (MaxCLL) of the actual grade according to the metadata on the disc is 3241 nits. BTW I get 1800 nits peak from my 65" ZD9 using 10% windows, but as it starts to lose a lot of colour volume at that brightness it's not actually all that useful, unless one is a total wh0re for brightness alone.

Originally Posted by gkolb

FYI, 4000 is the Max on that container, in no way do the contents have to fill it.
They can have a 700 max nit movie in a 4000 nit container.

The 4000 nit mastering display level doesn't cap anything, it's exactly what it says it is: the mastering level of the display used to grade it. Doesn't mean that the content can't go lower as you say, or indeed MUCH higher, e.g.

Ghostbusters 9633 nits peak




Ghosbusters II 9887 nits peak




nuGhostbusters 10,000 nits peak

[Nothing371]

Must feel good to be a Z9D owner in 2020.

I'm still happy with my mini-Z9.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Nothing371

Must feel good to be a Z9D owner in 2020.

It has felt good for the past 3/4 years and I think it will continue to do so in the foreseeable future.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Aquaman doesn't have a peak brightness of 4000 nits, that's just the mastering display level. The Maximum Content Light Level (MaxCLL) of the actual grade according to the metadata on the disc is 3241 nits. BTW I get 1800 nits peak from my 65" ZD9 using 10% windows, but as it starts to lose a lot of colour volume at that brightness it's not actually all that useful, unless one is a total wh0re for brightness alone.


The 4000 nit mastering display level doesn't cap anything, it's exactly what it says it is: the mastering level of the display used to grade it. Doesn't mean that the content can't go lower as you say, or indeed MUCH higher, e.g.

Ghostbusters 9633 nits peak




Ghosbusters II 9887 nits peak




nuGhostbusters 10,000 nits peak

Seems kind of weird to master some content beyond your display, no? I wonder how they judge that then if it's clipped even on their own mastering displays...it probably doesn't matter since it's reserved for the smallest of peak highlights.

[Member-425016]

Originally Posted by DJR662

It has felt good for the past 3/4 years and I think it will continue to do so in the foreseeable future.

With the exception of 3D, I hope Sony makes a model as close as possible to this one(better?). I love the TV, and can't think of another model of any type I could possibly want to take the place of it...if something were to happen to it.

[Nothing371]

my 930E just received a firmware update a few days ago. Any reason to not install it right away? I just worry about the firmware breaking existing things like Dolby Vision, black levels, or anything else that you see LG owners complain about all the time with their updates.

[G_Dubble]

I love my Z9D! The 4K HDR, and now DV, in this set is stunning.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by pbz06

Seems kind of weird to master some content beyond your display, no? I wonder how they judge that then if it's clipped even on their own mastering displays...it probably doesn't matter since it's reserved for the smallest of peak highlights.

What's "beyond your display" is all relative, I mean if something hits 1000 nits MaxCLL then there aren't many TVs that can do that properly, never mind 4000 or 10000 nits. The transfer function used for HDR exists in a 10k nit BT.2020 container, i.e. every single thing we're watching in HDR10, 10+ or DV is encoded inside that container. Some studios stuck religiously to the early BDA guidelines that MaxCLL should not exceed 1000 nits and MaxFALL not exceed 400 nits, other studios like Sony and Warners went 'nah mate' and mastered stuff out to virtually the full 10k nits on some of their earliest titles.

While it means that our displays *now* may well struggle with such extreme content without the benefit of Dobly (other dynamic tone mapping options are available), it also means that this content is 'future proof' to a certain degree.

As to how they can master it that high if the display tops out at 4k nits e.g. Pulsar they can use waveforms to gauge what it's doing. Temporary tone mapping is also another option but that's more for <4k nit displays I think, as I recall Penton saying that they don't do temporary tone maps when grading on Pulsar.

[JimShaw]

Originally Posted by G_Dubble

I love my Z9D! The 4K HDR, and now DV, in this set is stunning.

I feel the same

I'm always looking for a TV that might be better for my situation. So far, nothing.

I'm going with three years with my set. I usually buy after two but not after buy the Z9D

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JimShaw

I feel the same

I'm always looking for a TV that might be better for my situation. So far, nothing.

I'm going with three years with my set. I usually buy after two but not after buy the Z9D

Same here, I mean I'm not one of those folks who changes their TV on what seems like an hourly basis because I don't have the funds or inclination to do so, BUT it's very rare that I hold on to a TV for this amount of time, it's been three years already for me too. And I can't find anything that's better for my situation either, when you consider that this set is essentially five years old in tech terms (it would've been developed in 2015 as it was released in 2016) it's still mind-boggling how massively over-engineered it was. It doesn't just "hold up" either, it's still impresses me every damned day and I'm not easily pleased.

Do I very much wish the 65" panel had a better response time (I'm glad the weather is warming up, put it that way) and that it had better colour volume to go with its insane brightness? Absotively. I'd give cash money if I could improve the infuriatingly uneven 3D performance as well. But the addition of Dobly has given it a new lease of life, for although the low latency version isn't perfect it's still great to have an option for DTM on this set, as that's about the only thing that was missing picture-wise.

I've mentioned before how surprisingly effective the audio is on the TV, it kicks out a very decent faux-surround effect and was only lacking for bass. But now that I've plugged my XLS200 subwoofer into it (it's the only bit of kit remaining from my surround sound setup after I sold the rest) it's transformed the sound and gives it more body and heft. There was me about to go chasing after sound bars - already tried a Sony one and I was not impressed, it actually sounded worse than the TV! - when I realised I could just plug the sub into the TV using an old 3.5mm to phono cable I had lying around. Change the menu setting to subwoofer output and boom, it was that easy.

[DJR662]

I was under the impression the Z9D had a form of dynamic tone mapping of its own already, because of the way it analyzes the HDR picture and ignores the metadata?

[HDMan72]

Still enjoying my 65" Z. Even though I notice some vertical light banding from time to time it will take more than that to get me to ditch it for an upgrade and like some of you I used to buy tv's every 2 years.

[Nothing371]

Originally Posted by HDMan72

Still enjoying my 65" Z. Even though I notice some vertical light banding from time to time it will take more than that to get me to ditch it for an upgrade and like some of you I used to buy tv's every 2 years.

The Z9D has turned out to be an incredible investment. Sony still hasn't matched that performance with newer LCDs. I kinda wish that I would have bought one on clearance in 2018.

[LettuceJUMP]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Same here, I mean I'm not one of those folks who changes their TV on what seems like an hourly basis because I don't have the funds or inclination to do so, BUT it's very rare that I hold on to a TV for this amount of time, it's been three years already for me too. And I can't find anything that's better for my situation either, when you consider that this set is essentially five years old in tech terms (it would've been developed in 2015 as it was released in 2016) it's still mind-boggling how massively over-engineered it was. It doesn't just "hold up" either, it's still impresses me every damned day and I'm not easily pleased.

Do I very much wish the 65" panel had a better response time (I'm glad the weather is warming up, put it that way) and that it had better colour volume to go with its insane brightness? Absotively. I'd give cash money if I could improve the infuriatingly uneven 3D performance as well. But the addition of Dobly has given it a new lease of life, for although the low latency version isn't perfect it's still great to have an option for DTM on this set, as that's about the only thing that was missing picture-wise.

I've mentioned before how surprisingly effective the audio is on the TV, it kicks out a very decent faux-surround effect and was only lacking for bass. But now that I've plugged my XLS200 subwoofer into it (it's the only bit of kit remaining from my surround sound setup after I sold the rest) it's transformed the sound and gives it more body and heft. There was me about to go chasing after sound bars - already tried a Sony one and I was not impressed, it actually sounded worse than the TV! - when I realised I could just plug the sub into the TV using an old 3.5mm to phono cable I had lying around. Change the menu setting to subwoofer output and boom, it was that easy.

I sometimes wonder if I should have went with the ZD9 instead of the x900F. I'm not 100% blown away. But the size/price value was better and the reviews seemed decent. But a part of me regrets not spluring for the ZD9 for some of these high end master class options.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by LettuceJUMP

I sometimes wonder if I should have went with the ZD9 instead of the x900F. I'm not 100% blown away. But the size/price value was better and the reviews seemed decent. But a part of me regrets not spluring for the ZD9 for some of these high end master class options.

With all due respect to the XF900 (which is a fine TV by itself), but no other Sony set (including the Z9G) has topped the Z9D, so that basically means the peak has halted in 2016.

Out of curiosity, what is it you don't like about the XF900?

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by pbz06

Seems kind of weird to master some content beyond your display, no? I wonder how they judge that then if it's clipped even on their own mastering displays...it probably doesn't matter since it's reserved for the smallest of peak highlights.

Displays keep getting better, they stay the same grade.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

Displays keep getting better, they stay the same grade.

Gonna be a while till we see 10,000 not displays.