Sony introduces high-end ZD9 TV series with HDR

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Cinema Home has a lower brightness output than Cinema Pro, for no apparent reason. Try Pro with contrast at 85 and black level 50. Dimming to medium, XDR on high. All other processing shite turned off. Way off.

On Default, Cinema Home has contrast at Max so it ends up being similar to Cinema Pro at 90.

[clemdog]

Thanks Geoff. Will try these and report back...

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by pbz06

On Default, Cinema Home has contrast at Max so it ends up being similar to Cinema Pro at 90.

Who in their right mind leaves contrast on maximamum?

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Who in their right mind leaves contrast on maximamum?

Probably the average consumer who buys a TV and doesn't go on forums

[pbz06]

But it seems like Cinema Home at 95 tracks the same as Cinema Pro at 85...right?

[Geoff D]

I haven't done any direct comparisons between the two to get them to line up exactly, but even if they do it's just nice to have that extra headroom on the Pro settings. Whenever I push contrast into the late '90s I get kinda twitchy.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by pbz06

On Default, Cinema Home has contrast at Max so it ends up being similar to Cinema Pro at 90.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Who in their right mind leaves contrast on maximamum?

I think 10K has contrast on max for SDR on his ZD9.

I've seen calibration reports for the XD9405 where contrast was set to 96 and another was set to max (both for SDR) and from what I have read, these were done by professional calibrators. JerryAustin also has contrast set to 90 on his set whereas if I set it on mine (using S&M), I come up with 70. The thing with the XD9405 is, is that the "contrast" slider or the "brightness" slider or any other picture settings slider on screen activates Local Dimming in that particular area (which can also influence its surroundings, it's not as precise as the ZD9), so you have to look at the test pattern without the slider on screen.

I remember when I had my old Sony 65HX920 calibrated and the calibrator set my contrast at 63, I have never had my contrast turned up all the way.

Originally Posted by pbz06

But it seems like Cinema Home at 95 tracks the same as Cinema Pro at 85...right?

I think that is also what 10K has stated with these settings, yeah.

I've had my ZD9 ISF calibrated where I bought it but I wasn't happy with the results. I only left the white balance settings intact and I took Geoff's settings for the rest (except for gamma on SDR which I have at -2). Also did some tweaking myself for 3D using S&M so I use three different picture modes.



Couple of questions for you, Geoff if you don't mind.

So with contrast set to 85 for HDR on Pro, what gamma setting do you use? Do you still use contrast at 75 for SDR on Home? I think you preferred gamma at -1 for SDR IIRC.

[clemdog]

I tried Geoff's recommended settings for contrast and then watched a baseball game last night. Sure is brighter on things like the white score overlay and the players white pants.... maybe too bright?

Will try a few UHD discs today.

Geoff - Can I asume that somewhere in these 20 plus pages you've posted your overall settings? Could I ask that you copy and paste them here? I'd like to try to copy them to see what results I get.

Thanks to all.

[Laserdisk]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Who in their right mind leaves contrast on maximamum?

Cinema home is for watching with a lot of ambient light in the room.

[Geoff D]

It'd have to be, blimey.

[Laserdisk]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It'd have to be, blimey.

It works, it needs tweaking not to be full full torch mode.
But it's not a bad mode when you cannot correct the lighting in a room at that time of day.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DJR662

I think 10K has contrast on max for SDR on his ZD9.

I've seen calibration reports for the XD9405 where contrast was set to 96 and another was set to max (both for SDR) and from what I have read, these were done by professional calibrators. JerryAustin also has contrast set to 90 on his set whereas if I set it on mine (using S&M), I come up with 70. The thing with the XD9405 is, is that the "contrast" slider or the "brightness" slider or any other picture settings slider on screen activates Local Dimming in that particular area (which can also influence its surroundings, it's not as precise as the ZD9), so you have to look at the test pattern without the slider on screen.

I remember when I had my old Sony 65HX920 calibrated and the calibrator set my contrast at 63, I have never had my contrast turned up all the way.

Dude, you're not talking to some greenhorn here, I never leave the menus up on screen when doing a calibration run or even just eyeballing test patterns. Contrast also affects luminance as well as white clipping so if x calibrator is happy to find a balance between backlight and contrast that suits them and still measures correct then that's fine, personally I don't like pushing it to extremes even if it all measures out equal.

Couple of questions for you, Geoff if you don't mind.

So with contrast set to 85 for HDR on Pro, what gamma setting do you use? Do you still use contrast at 75 for SDR on Home? I think you preferred gamma at -1 for SDR IIRC.

Originally Posted by clemdog

Geoff - Can I asume that somewhere in these 20 plus pages you've posted your overall settings? Could I ask that you copy and paste them here? I'd like to try to copy them to see what results I get.

Thanks to all.

Two posts, one stone (white balance adjustments not shown for obvious reasons):

SDR

cinema home
brightness 6
contrast 80
gamma 0
colour 52
black level 50
local dimming medium
xdr off
live colour off
everything else OFF

This measures about 130 nits peak, it's a little higher than SMPTE suggest but up to about 90% it tracks luminance perfectly so I won't tell them if you won't. Average gamma 2.22, anything higher than that (-1 is 2.3, -2 is 2.4) and the blacks are a touch too dark for my liking. Yeah, I know that 2.4 is what they supposedly use these days but, again, I won't tell if you won't. Average dE across the greyscale is 0.27, highest is 0.64. After white balance adjustment colour temp is almost ruler flat across the range, on or about 6500K.

HDR

cinema pro
brightness max
contrast 86
gamma 0
colour 52
black level 50
local dimming medium
xdr high
live colour off
everything else OFF

This measures 1942 nits peak with much fuller tracking of the ST 2084 luminance curve, it starts to shallow a little bit at 70% but it's getting the brightness correct in the lower HDR range that I'm more concerned about which is why I've stopped fiddling with the gamma control in HDR. Average dE across the greyscale is 0.30, highest is 0.71. Colour temp is running a bit higher (nearer 6600K so just a touch bluer) up until about 35%, after that it's bang on 6500K again. Resolves clear to 2000 nits in ryan's HDR white clipping pattern.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Dude, you're not talking to some greenhorn here, I never leave the menus up on screen when doing a calibration run or even just eyeballing test patterns. Contrast also affects luminance as well as white clipping so if x calibrator is happy to find a balance between backlight and contrast that suits them and still measures correct then that's fine, personally I don't like pushing it to extremes even if it all measures out equal.

[Show spoiler]Two posts, one stone (white balance adjustments not shown for obvious reasons):

SDR

cinema home

brightness 6
contrast 80
gamma 0
colour 52
black level 50
local dimming medium
xdr off
live colour off
everything else OFF

This measures about 130 nits peak, it's a little higher than SMPTE suggest but up to about 90% it tracks luminance perfectly so I won't tell them if you won't. Average gamma 2.22, anything higher than that (-1 is 2.3, -2 is 2.4) and the blacks are a touch too dark for my liking. Yeah, I know that 2.4 is what they supposedly use these days but, again, I won't tell if you won't. Average dE across the greyscale is 0.27, highest is 0.64. After white balance adjustment colour temp is almost ruler flat across the range, on or about 6500K.

HDR

cinema pro

brightness max (50)
contrast 86
gamma 0
colour 52
black level 50
local dimming medium
xdr high
live colour off
everything else OFF

This measures 1942 nits peak with much fuller tracking of the ST 2084 luminance curve, it starts to shallow a little bit at 70% but it's getting the brightness correct in the lower HDR range that I'm more concerned about which is why I've stopped fiddling with the gamma control in HDR. Average dE across the greyscale is 0.30, highest is 0.71. Colour temp is running a bit higher (nearer 6600K so just a touch bluer) up until about 35%, after that it's bang on 6500K again. Resolves cleae clipping pattern.

Geoff, I can't wait to play with these latest settings. You're like a Dr. Frankenstein playing with the monsters of display luminance.

[Geoff D]

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

This measures 1942 nits peak with much fuller tracking of the ST 2084 luminance curve, it starts to shallow a little bit at 70% but it's getting the brightness correct in the lower HDR range that I'm more concerned about which is why I've stopped fiddling with the gamma control in HDR. Average dE across the greyscale is 0.30, highest is 0.71. Colour temp is running a bit higher (nearer 6600K so just a touch bluer) up until about 35%, after that it's bang on 6500K again. Resolves clear to 2000 nits in ryan's HDR white clipping pattern.

I'm wondering if anyone has really good 3D settings.

I found one on AVS and it looked good with no ghosting but the flickering in bright parts of the image was driving me insane. I needed a mode that allows the frame interpolation at medium which eliminates the flicker but still looks like 24fps and not some soap-opera effect. Except now ghosting is there (Rogue One 3D ghosts something terribly).

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I'm wondering if anyone has really good 3D settings.

I found one on AVS and it looked good with no ghosting but the flickering in bright parts of the image was driving me insane. I needed a mode that allows the frame interpolation at medium which eliminates the flicker but still looks like 24fps and not some soap-opera effect. Except now ghosting is there (Rogue One 3D ghosts something terribly).

Depending on the setting it is used on, I always thought Sony's Motionflow was the least soap opera looking interpolation in the business. I had to use it on my old 65HX920 otherwise the flickering would be unbearable but luckily the SOE was neglectable, I hardly noticed it if at all and I'm quite sensitive to it.

On my XD9405 it is the other way around, any Motionflow setting would cause horrible flickering which I don't mind since I never want to use interpolation anyway so I'm glad I could leave it disabled. I also have Motionflow disabled on my ZD9 without issues regarding flickering. But it could also be the case that I am not as sensitive to flickering as you are?

[PaulGrinny]

Originally Posted by DJR662

Depending on the setting it is used on, I always thought Sony's Motionflow was the least soap opera looking interpolation in the business. I had to use it on my old 65HX920 otherwise the flickering would be unbearable but luckily the SOE was neglectable, I hardly noticed it if at all and I'm quite sensitive to it.

On my XD9405 it is the other way around, any Motionflow setting would cause horrible flickering which I don't mind since I never want to use interpolation anyway so I'm glad I could leave it disabled. I also have Motionflow disabled on my ZD9 without issues regarding flickering. But it could also be the case that I am not as sensitive to flickering as you are?

Anyone know any good 3D settings for the 55XD9305, to eliminate ghosting?

Cheers

[Geoff D]

Active 3D on Sony TVs has, as a rule, always been shit. Ghosting is part and parcel of the experience - doubly infuriating because some discs will look great while others are so bad it's like you haven't even got the glasses on - and activating Motionflow makes it look 10x worse.

When I got my ZD9 I thought I'd give the 3D a try and holy shit it's terrible. So no 3D settings from me, I wouldn't go there even if you paid me. Well, okay, I would if you paid me but other than that I don't even regard the TV as having 3D. What grinds my gears is that I assumed that it would carry over the option to manually deactivate 3D and just watch the left eye stream (so's I can watch them VAR movies without the crappy 3D) but nope, they've locked it out for these later Android sets. Balls. So instead I just rip the left eye and play it off a USB stick.

[pbz06]

I was never into 3D but tried it when I got this TV. First movie I tried was Dredd, and it was so underwhelming I thought I might have missed a setting. Lots of ghosting and flickering. Barely any 3D ness.

I gave it another shot with Passengers and that was WAY better and pleasing. Still a little too much noise for me and I do end up always getting dizzy or nauseous...so I don't know, just was never my cup of tea.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Active 3D on Sony TVs has, as a rule, always been shit. Ghosting is part and parcel of the experience - doubly infuriating because some discs will look great while others are so bad it's like you haven't even got the glasses on - and activating Motionflow makes it look 10x worse.

When I got my ZD9 I thought I'd give the 3D a try and holy shit it's terrible. So no 3D settings from me, I wouldn't go there even if you paid me. Well, okay, I would if you paid me but other than that I don't even regard the TV as having 3D. What grinds my gears is that I assumed that it would carry over the option to manually deactivate 3D and just watch the left eye stream (so's I can watch them VAR movies without the crappy 3D) but nope, they've locked it out for these later Android sets. Balls. So instead I just rip the left eye and play it off a USB stick.

You must have a different ZD9 than I have then cause apart from the occasional and inevitable crosstalk (why Sony still opted for active 3D on their 4K sets is still a mystery to me), I think there is nothing wrong with the 3D picture. Yes, some movies will exhibit more crosstalk than others, especially with subtitles and other bright parts on dark backgrounds but that's active for you. I've come from a NX810, then a HX920, along with a HX850 until I got my two 4K TVs and the HW 55ES PJ and I have seen Sony's (active) 3D only get better throughout the years.

Originally Posted by pbz06

I was never into 3D but tried it when I got this TV. First movie I tried was Dredd, and it was so underwhelming I thought I might have missed a setting. Lots of ghosting and flickering. Barely any 3D ness.

I gave it another shot with Passengers and that was WAY better and pleasing. Still a little too much noise for me and I do end up always getting dizzy or nauseous...so I don't know, just was never my cup of tea.

IMO Dredd is great in 3D and it's the way to watch it, there are some shots/scenes that have amazing depth to it like when characters are falling down from a building. That scene in which Ma Ma is taking a bath also looks awesome with the water moving in slow motion, same goes for when Dredd pushes her through a window at the end of the movie, so many great scenes in 3D.