Sony introduces high-end ZD9 TV series with HDR

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

You know my thoughts on it

What are your thoughts?

[Geoff D]

That DV doesn't work very well on Sony TVs. It works well enough that I'd still rather use DV than not, but it has a host of issues.

[mutelight]

Originally Posted by GenPion

Anyone with an Oppo 203 want to chime in on how the Dolby Vision implementation looks on the Sony Z9D?

I’m debating between an Oppo 203 or getting a Sony X800M2 with Dolby Vision and an Oppo 103D (I sold my Oppo 103D before and have to say I miss it as well as the Darbee implementation).

I’m not happy that the new Sony X800M2 player doesn’t have auto Dolby Vision implementation but I can always switch it on and off and hope for a firmware update if need be. However, I would love to hear more thoughts regarding Dolby Vision with the Oppo 203 as I have heard some conflicting thoughts on the way the Oppo 203 works with the Sony model TVs.

It has been fantastic for me on my Z9D and A1E. Zero issues with brightness for me compared to the Apple TV which is slightly dimmer in DV compared to the native apps in the TV.

Compared the same movie between the digital DV version via Vudu and then the disc and could not perceive any difference in brightness.

The nice thing about the Oppo is that I have hundreds of my BD and 4K BD discs backed up to my NAS and can watch them all via the network in full quality, menus, DV, lossless audio, etc. like the disc is in the tray.

[fancycar]

Try to watch THE CROODS 3D on your Z9D
You'll see the improvement after updating

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by fancycar

Try to watch THE CROODS 3D on your Z9D
You'll see the improvement after updating

Noted.

[Geoff D]

I don't have that one either.

I know of a bit in Dredd which ALWAYS had some iffy crosstalk, it's the "hotshot" bit near the beginning. Will have to try it.

[DVD Josh]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That DV doesn't work very well on Sony TVs. It works well enough that I'd still rather use DV than not, but it has a host of issues.

Agree to disagree. Looks great on my 75ZD9.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I don't have that one either.

I know of a bit in Dredd which ALWAYS had some iffy crosstalk, it's the "hotshot" bit near the beginning. Will have to try it.

Is that the scene in which he shoots the bald guy who was holding a girl hostage?

There is some more crosstalk in Dredd. If I remember correctly, the shots looking over Mega City I at the very beginning and at the very end of the movie have some.

Did you update your TV already or not yet?

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That DV doesn't work very well on Sony TVs. It works well enough that I'd still rather use DV than not, but it has a host of issues.

I appreciate your honesty here.

So these issues aren't specifically player related like with the 820 which you mentioned before? DV on the Z9D with your Oppo still has issues then, which therefore I take it makes it a Sony issue?

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That DV doesn't work very well on Sony TVs. It works well enough that I'd still rather use DV than not, but it has a host of issues.

How do we know what's correct or standard if everything runs it differently with various combinations?

Ps I can't tell a difference of course

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DJR662

I appreciate your honesty here.

So these issues aren't specifically player related like with the 820 which you mentioned before? DV on the Z9D with your Oppo still has issues then, which therefore I take it makes it a Sony issue?

No, the Panny is still worse off even within the remit of the other problems that Sony DV has.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by pbz06

How do we know what's correct or standard if everything runs it differently with various combinations?

Ps I can't tell a difference of course

Have a look in the Spears & Munsil UHD Benchmark thread, where you'll find information from actual experts on the problems that the low latency DV mode has.

[DVD Josh]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

No, the Panny is still worse off even within the remit of the other problems that Sony DV has.

I just think you hate DV my friend

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Have a look in the Spears & Munsil UHD Benchmark thread, where you'll find information from actual experts on the problems that the low latency DV mode has.

Ah ok.

Does the A9G (AG9) exhibit same issues?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DVD Josh

I just think you hate DV my friend

Quite the opposite as even WITH the problems I'd still rather use it than HDR10, particularly on discs that have demonstrably awful HDR10 encoding which the DV cleans up significantly. What I want to see is the Sony low latency mode get tidied up by Dolby so it can be the best it can be, and people are making the issues known to all parties involved.

Originally Posted by pbz06

Ah ok.

Does the A9G (AG9) exhibit same issues?

I don't think anything has changed re: Sony sets having to use low latency DV over HDMI, but you'd have to quiz an AG9 owner about it. The trouble with that, on this forum at least, is that the one guy who has one hates DV so good luck getting anything objective out of him!

[RalphoR]

I think it's more so Sony hates Dolby Vision.

[LordoftheRings]

Are they going to keep pushing Dolby Vision in 2020?
Samsung's going to jump in?

[DJR662]

Just did a comparison for crosstalk using the 3D Blu-ray of The Croods on both my TVs:

65Z9D (ISF calibrated, pre-Oreo firmware) + X1000ES + Sony BT400A glasses
75Z9D (ISF calibrated, pre-Oreo firmware) + X800 + Sony BT400A glasses

What I did was watching a couple of random scenes, first with Motionflow (standard) enabled and then the same scene again but with Motionflow (standard) disabled. Then I played the scene in question again and paused it at random points while then toggling between Motionflow on and off a couple of times to notice the difference (if any). Fortunately The Croods 3D stays in 3D when pausing the movie (some 3D Blu-rays revert back to 2D when you pause them or bring up the pop up menu for that matter).

I did this on the 75" first and after that I did the exact same thing with the exact same scenes on the 65" (which was already on for a good 45 minutes before I started).

Btw I do notice a difference in brightness when I went from low to medium to high (and back) in the 3D glasses brightness menu. Not much, but it definitely is there, both on the 65" and the 75".


Needless to say, the double images are because of the 3D. But I've included pictures for clarification and for the onscreen info regarding chapters and timestamps.





75" without Motionflow:

Some crosstalk above the word "20th" as well in the lower left corner on the spotlight and the area underneath it.

75" with Motionflow:

Crosstalk above the "20th" word seems worse but the crosstalk on the spotlight is as good as gone (no more double image).

65" without Motionflow:

Quite some crosstalk on the entire "20th Century Fox" logo as well as in the lower left part of the screen.

65" with Motionflow:

Even more crosstalk on the "20th Century Fox" logo, the entire "A news corporation company" sentence is now a double image which wasn't the case when Motionflow was off.





75" without Motionflow:

Noticable crosstalk on the outerlines of the rocks on the left and right side. It has that distinctive muddy and "messy" look that I come across quite often in 3D. Also the flickering of the glasses in the sky between the rocks is quite noticable.

75" with Mortionflow:

Crosstalk is almost reduced to zero, the rocks have no more double outerlines and it looks less muddy and more "cleaner". No more flickering in the sky either.

65" without Motionflow:

Same as with the 75", noticable crosstalk on the outerlines of the rocks on the left and the right and really noticable flickering.

65" with Motionflow:

Still the same amount of crosstalk and muddy look, flickering is gone though.





75" without Motionflow:

It's kind of hard to describe, but the tree on the left seems to have a double image within itself. So it's not really a double image/crosstalk as if you are seeing double, but it kind of looks like there is a part of the tree within the tree if that makes any sense.

75" with Motionflow:

Interestingly enough, the issue with the tree remains here. No noticable improvement this time.

65" without Motionflow:

The tree looks a bit more muddy than on the 75" and it still shows the same issue.

65" with Motionflow:

Again, it looks the same to me as without Motionflow.





75" without Motionflow:

The trees on the left and the right exhibit some crosstalk and the branch in the upper left part of the screen is a double image (not shown here because of the OSD). Again the rocks in the middle of the screen seem to have a faint image within themselves.

75" with Motionflow:

Crosstalk on the trees seems slightly less but the branch is not a double image anymore. Rocks look about the same though.

65" without Motionflow:

Quite some crosstalk on the trees and the picture looks messy.

65" with Motionflow:

Severe crosstalk on the trees now, it looks like there is an entire forrest on the right because of the double imagery.




I will do the most recent firmware update on my 75" first and then repeat the whole process again to see if there will be any difference.

[HDMan72]

Quite the difference how the 65" & 75" handle Motionflow with 3D. As you described, with Motionflow Standard on the 65" removes the flicker but adds muddiness to my 3D viewing and additional crosstalk. Great job on the detailed comparison.

[algu01]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Quite the opposite as even WITH the problems I'd still rather use it than HDR10, particularly on discs that have demonstrably awful HDR10 encoding which the DV cleans up significantly. What I want to see is the Sony low latency mode get tidied up by Dolby so it can be the best it can be, and people are making the issues known to all parties involved.


I don't think anything has changed re: Sony sets having to use low latency DV over HDMI, but you'd have to quiz an AG9 owner about it. The trouble with that, on this forum at least, is that the one guy who has one hates DV so good luck getting anything objective out of him!

I have the Sony AF9/A9F with exactly the same issues. The AF9/A9F is AFAIK almost identical to the AG9/A9G!

HOWEVER, the AF9/AG9 has excellent dynamic tone-mapping (through the X1 Ultimate chip) which makes HDR10 looking at least as good as TV-led DV and better than player-led DV...