Sony introduces high-end ZD9 TV series with HDR

[DVD Josh]

Originally Posted by GenPion

I know several of you said a recent firmware update fixed 3D issues on the Z9D set but for those still having some issues with crosstalk I read on another forum the following suggestion:

Toggle off HDM Enhanced Mode

Soft Reset (Hold Power 5 Seconds)

And supposedly that resolves the 3D issues for the set. For those still having issues and doing comparisons, go ahead and test those settings out and it might do a magic trick for you.

Essentially, the Enhanced HDMI mode (usually for HDR 10/DV) needs to be toggled off to fix the issues with 3D. Unless the new firmware did resolve this for most. You can always turn enhanced mode back on for 4K titles.

Would you kindly post (or PM me) the hyperlink to this thread? Thanks Gen.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by GenPion

I know several of you said a recent firmware update fixed 3D issues on the Z9D set but for those still having some issues with crosstalk I read on another forum the following suggestion:

Toggle off HDM Enhanced Mode

Soft Reset (Hold Power 5 Seconds)

And supposedly that resolves the 3D issues for the set. For those still having issues and doing comparisons, go ahead and test those settings out and it might do a magic trick for you.

Essentially, the Enhanced HDMI mode (usually for HDR 10/DV) needs to be toggled off to fix the issues with 3D. Unless the new firmware did resolve this for most. You can always turn enhanced mode back on for 4K titles.

Tried that yonks ago. Guess what? It did bugger all. And I lol'd at DJR saying the latest magic cure-all 3D glasses didn't result in a damned bit of difference either. I recall people saying that Xpands were great and had no crosstalk so I spent a fair bit of cash tracking some down a while ago. You'll never guess what the outcome was...

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by pbz06

I also recommend when watching Dolby Vision, go into Moionflow settings, switch to Custom, put Clearness to 0, then go back to True Cinema. There was a glitch where it would enable Clearness while in True Cinema after the last update or before.

I don't know if that's the dimness issue people are referring to. I tried some more A B comparisons today but they look identical to me. Of course, they're not side by side since I have to exit completely and manually change.

When you have to exit completely and wait however long for the content to spool back up again then it's no wonder it looks identical. But I've measured the light output using a colourimeter on the exact same frames in calibrated HDR10 (so it correctly follows the PQ brightness curve) and DV on default 90 contrast and the 10 is way brighter. Even with the DV contrast pumped to maximum - which will badly clip highlight detail in DV, although even default 90 is not perfect! - it's STILL not as bright as the HDR10.

[HDMan72]

Originally Posted by DJR662

Yeah, Cinemotion is called Film mode on my models.



I just took a look aqain at that scene of RP1 on my pre-Oreo 65". It doesn't look so good to my eyes to be honest when pausing the scene (viewing distance is about 2 meters/6,6 ft).

The lights in a vertical row on the left side of the board have some ghosting to it on the left side as well as on the right side. All of the info on the board like "4th, 5th, 6th" etc also have very slight ghosting. Starting from the left, the first 4 or so of that row of small blue lights in an oval form underneath the scoreboard have noticable ghosting. That giant "sail" or whatever that is on the lower left side also has quite noticable ghosting, as do the poles and the flags and the blue circle on the lower right side.


I also took a look again at the same scenes from RP1, The Hobbit, The Croods and My Bloody Valentine on my 75" that I watched before the update. My conclusion is they all looked the same regarding crosstalk as they did before I did the update, with and without Motionflow.

Now I'm not saying other people are wrong or they are seeing things which aren't there. I'm just stating what I am seeing here based on my comparisons and I don't see any difference. I haven't updated my 65" yet but I have a feeling the results after the update will be the same for me...


I do like the new homescreen on the 75" though, it's been cleaned up but a bit too much I think. The only things I am seeing are the apps (those that I personally use which are restricted to the internal video, music and photo apps, I "deleted"everything else ). There used to be a row underneath that showing everything that has been hooked up to the TV/AV receiver but that's gone now? If I want to select a source, I now have to select "inputs" I think on the top right corner of the screen. I prefer the old way. I didn't really looked into this for long so I'm hoping I'll be able to bring it back.

The internal video app looks much better though! When hooking up an external HDD, its contents is much better organized and much more pleasing to look at also.

Thank you for the comparisons. We are basically seeing the same thing which is to say this latest update didn’t do anything for 3D. I’m glad you took the time for your comparisons because you are a lot more familiar with these 3D titles than I.
It’s funny because all these “voodoo” fixes along with different brand glasses, cranking enhancement settings to the max. In the end, it is what it is with 3D on the Z and it’s not magically gonna be fixed. Not perfect but can still be fun.

[GenPion]

Do both of you own the 65" model? Maybe there is a difference between the 65" and the 75" models as far as that setting applies. Interesting.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

When you have to exit completely and wait however long for the content to spool back up again then it's no wonder it looks identical. But I've measured the light output using a colourimeter on the exact same frames in calibrated HDR10 (so it correctly follows the PQ brightness curve) and DV on default 90 contrast and the 10 is way brighter. Even with the DV contrast pumped to maximum - which will badly clip highlight detail in DV, although even default 90 is not perfect! - it's STILL not as bright as the HDR10.

I could have swore DV default is Max (100)? I use it at 95 and HDR10 at 95 also (Cinema Home). But thanks for measuring, good to know that it's legit dimmed.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Tried that yonks ago. Guess what? It did bugger all. And I lol'd at DJR saying the latest magic cure-all 3D glasses didn't result in a damned bit of difference either. I recall people saying that Xpands were great and had no crosstalk so I spent a fair bit of cash tracking some down a while ago. You'll never guess what the outcome was...

I was also suckered into buying the Xpand 105 because according to the seller it would provide "higher brightness, better contrast and less crosstalk" specifically for my projector. Bought one, tested it...nada difference. And that was before the Hi-shock glasses.

But when it comes to these things (fixes, magical cures and all), I just have to try and see it for myself.

Originally Posted by HDMan72

Thank you for the comparisons. We are basically seeing the same thing which is to say this latest update didn’t do anything for 3D. I’m glad you took the time for your comparisons because you are a lot more familiar with these 3D titles than I.
It’s funny because all these “voodoo” fixes along with different brand glasses, cranking enhancement settings to the max. In the end, it is what it is with 3D on the Z and it’s not magically gonna be fixed. Not perfect but can still be fun.

My opinion also.

So far the only things that can actually make a difference regarding crosstalk on my Sony's (however small, not a magical cure by any means) is letting the 65" and projector warm up (the latter needs to be on for a good 50 minutes) and using Motionflow on the 75" (still not a magical cure either, it varies a lot).

And like you said, it's not perfect but sure still fun. Even with the occassional crosstalk, 3D sometimes looks amazing.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DJR662

I was also suckered into buying the Xpand 105 because according to the seller it would provide "higher brightness, better contrast and less crosstalk" specifically for my projector. Bought one, tested it...nada difference. And that was before the Hi-shock glasses.

But when it comes to these things (fixes, magical cures and all), I just have to try and see it for myself.



My opinion also.

So far the only things that can actually make a difference regarding crosstalk on my Sony's (however small, not a magical cure by any means) is letting the 65" and projector warm up (the latter needs to be on for a good 50 minutes) and using Motionflow on the 75" (still not a magical cure either, it varies a lot).

And like you said, it's not perfect but sure still fun. Even with the occassional crosstalk, 3D sometimes looks amazing.

Yep, I've mentioned before that just letting it warm up is the biggest single difference I've seen on the 65" for 3D. Everything else that everyone has ever mentioned for the 65" is some kind of placebo or outright delusion, sorry to couch it in such terms but it really is bullshit. Given all the stuff that's been mentioned over the years I wouldn't be surprised if the next recommendation was smearing yourself in chicken blood while dancing naked chanting 'owhatatwitiam' over and over.

Originally Posted by pbz06

I could have swore DV default is Max (100)? I use it at 95 and HDR10 at 95 also (Cinema Home). But thanks for measuring, good to know that it's legit dimmed.

When I first tried DV after the initial update that added DV the contrast was indeed at maximum, but then the Motionflow was turned on as well so I don't think either is strictly accurate. If you check the contrast slider then the two little vertical lines that denote the default setting appear at 90.

95 on Cinema Home is roughly equivalent to what I use in Cinema Pro (86) so you're on the right track with HDR10 though it will clip >1500 nit information. With DV on 95 it will be brighter but it will clip highlights quite heavily on certain discs.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by GenPion

Do both of you own the 65" model? Maybe there is a difference between the 65" and the 75" models as far as that setting applies. Interesting.

I own both 65" and 75" models.

[Geoff D]

@ GenPion

By definition the 65 and 75 have different panels which is why they're reacting differently, the larger model of the two also has less issues with black smearing as the 65 in winter can be quite bad for it. Again, letting it warm up helps to alleviate some of it.

[DJR662]

I can only imagine what other "hidden" benefits the 100" model holds over its smaller siblings. Too bad it's just too big and too expensive ofcourse.

Really wish Sony would have made an 85" model. I think they could tweak that 85" 2016 BMD prototype a bit and release it as the "true" successor to the Z9D today.

[GenPion]

I’m really interested in this set but it’s odd hearing such conflicting information on the 3D performance. I own a lot of 3D releases so I want to make sure this set will perform well with 3D (even if not perfection). On my current 3D TV I’ve seen some discs which did exhibit crosstalk and others which did not. Maybe it is just a issue with Active 3D.

The LG OLED was also tempting but is 10” less, PQ is supposed to be superior overall on the Z9D, and this Sony model would be less likely to have longevity issues such as burn in.

Anyone else try the recent firmware update and have thoughts on it? I know some of you said 3D looks great now.

[DVD Josh]

Originally Posted by GenPion

I’m really interested in this set but it’s odd hearing such conflicting information on the 3D performance. I own a lot of 3D releases so I want to make sure this set will perform well with 3D (even if not perfection). On my current 3D TV I’ve seen some discs which did exhibit crosstalk and others which did not. Maybe it is just a issue with Active 3D.

The LG OLED was also tempting but is 10” less, PQ is supposed to be superior overall on the Z9D, and this Sony model would be less likely to have longevity issues such as burn in.

Anyone else try the recent firmware update and have thoughts on it? I know some of you said 3D looks great now.

I haven't extensively tested the 3D, but I will say I think the overall picture looks a little better to me as a whole. I will look at some of the problematic titles (Dr. Strange for one) soon.

BTW, Gen, not sure you saw my e-mail about the link above but would you be so kind as to post or PM it to me?

[BLMN]

Originally Posted by DJR662

I can only imagine what other "hidden" benefits the 100" model holds over its smaller siblings. Too bad it's just too big and too expensive ofcourse.

probably something we will never know. i am still to find one person that bought the 100" Z9D. Not even in stores i've seen them, they were only made per special order here in the US.

[DVD Josh]

Originally Posted by BLMN

probably something we will never know. i am still to find one person that bought the 100" Z9D. Not even in stores i've seen them, they were only made per special order here in the US.

The 75" was expensive enough thank you, lol.

[RalphoR]

I wonder what Sony will do to clear out the 85" Z9G? What if it comes down to the $6-7k range? That might be difficult to pass on for upgraders. If the 75" Z9D dropped to under $4k it could happen.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DJR662

I can only imagine what other "hidden" benefits the 100" model holds over its smaller siblings. Too bad it's just too big and too expensive ofcourse.

Really wish Sony would have made an 85" model. I think they could tweak that 85" 2016 BMD prototype a bit and release it as the "true" successor to the Z9D today.

Vincent got something like ~2800 nits peak out of it and said it had 1000 backlight zones with very little blooming at all (65" has ~600 zones). Sounds like it was the daddy of all LCDs and I still say that if I won the lotto tomorrow it's one of the first things I'd try and hunt down. Forget the fancy holidays or flash cars, gimme that 100" ZD9!

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Vincent got something like ~2800 nits peak out of it and said it had 1000 backlight zones with very little blooming at all (65" has ~600 zones). Sounds like it was the daddy of all LCDs and I still say that if I won the lotto tomorrow it's one of the first things I'd try and hunt down. Forget the fancy holidays or flash cars, gimme that 100" ZD9!

Even if I had the cash (I would need about 60.000 Euros) how the hell would I get a 100" TV that weighs more than 100kg into my appartment on the fourth floor? The boxed 75" barely fit into the elevator.

https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/abf1619

Don't know how accurate this site usually is, but it mentions 1500 dimming zones! I wonder if that would qualify as being the precursor of MiniLED?

That same site mentions 1800 peak brightness for the 65", it doesn't say for the 75". I have read a couple of times people saying the 75" as a slightly higher peak brightness than the 65". I don't have the measuring gear (nor the knowhow) so I can't check. But then again, I've been reading conflicting reports on the 65" peak brightess, ranging from as low as 1500 to as high as 1900.

[Geoff D]

I've measured 1900 on the ZD9 with my own gear, FWIW

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by DJR662

Even if I had the cash (I would need about 60.000 Euros) how the hell would I get a 100" TV that weighs more than 100kg into my appartment on the fourth floor? The boxed 75" barely fit into the elevator.

https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/abf1619

Don't know how accurate this site usually is, but it mentions 1500 dimming zones! I wonder if that would qualify as being the precursor of MiniLED?

That same site mentions 1800 peak brightness for the 65", it doesn't say for the 75". I have read a couple of times people saying the 75" as a slightly higher peak brightness than the 65". I don't have the measuring gear (nor the knowhow) so I can't check. But then again, I've been reading conflicting reports on the 65" peak brightess, ranging from as low as 1500 to as high as 1900.

I'd drive anywhere you are to help out, no questions. With an understanding that if we can't get it in your apartment, I take it home with me. Oh, and I have a bad shoulder and lower back, and didn't bring any of my tools. Conveniently I have a large empty van.