The Criterion Collection

[JackTwist]

Has anyone here purchased from DVDWorldUSA and had shipped within the US? I ask because there is an OOP Criterion title that I found on there but if paying overseas shipping cost (when warehouse is supposedly in FL) then it suddenly becomes less of a good deal.

And it sucks because I received this DVD today from an amazon seller promising "very good" condition with only a library sticker on the booklet, when in fact the DVD was a mangled mess, with a paper copy of the sleeve (!), a scratched disc, and crinkled booklet.

[A Sith Lord?]

Originally Posted by skylog

again, i do agree with mostly everything you put forward. i just feel, at the very least, some of the changes will happen sooner. also again, while i agree with the collecting/hoarding comment (although i certainly can see current/future generations perhaps not doing so with media, but instead opting for streaming passive ownership), one can just as easily do just that with media in digital form.

anyway, i like the discussion; however, i feel i am contributing to non-criterion talk here...i do not want to get on the bad side of all those members who were gracious enough to show me the criterion way.

It's all relevant, because right now Criterion's market is a very small handful of people like us who appreciate the art for what it is at its highest potential availability.

Should digital media ever take over and physical die, Criterion would have to rely heavily on donations to continue remastering these things. We continue supporting their products, they continue to keep remastering and distributing classic films that have a niche market.

I'd venture to say 99.9 to 100% of us that buy Criterions would NOT want to buy a digital copy and would rather own the physical hardcopy. If the markets shifted away from hardcopies, it'd be hard for Criterion to keep doing what they do best.

I mean plenty of their movies are unknown to the average movie goer. I knew about 12 Angry Men only because I was forced to watch it in Middle School. Imagine if I wasn't forced to watch it then, I'd probably likely never have known about it unless I blind bought it out of recommendation in this forum.

Criterionites are cult status.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by skylog

again, i do agree with mostly everything you put forward. i just feel, at the very least, some of the changes will happen sooner. also again, while i agree with the collecting/hoarding comment (although i certainly can see current/future generations perhaps not doing so with media, but instead opting for streaming passive ownership), one can just as easily do just that with media in digital form.

anyway, i like the discussion; however, i feel i am contributing to non-criterion talk here...i do not want to get on the bad side of all those members who were gracious enough to show me the criterion way.

Actually, this whole discussion about the transformation of physical media, and the evolution of the process by which people absorb this media is significantly relevant to the Criterion Collection, because one particular Criterion title, David Cronenberg's Videodrome, predicted all of this back in 1982.

Sort of.

At any rate, I think about Videodrome whenever I see people talking into their Bluetooth sets, or wearing iPods on their arm bands.

(...or maybe I'm just trying to justify the fact that I am the one who started this whole line of discussion.)

[Simple Lines]

Originally Posted by lemonski

I don't see what the benefit of ripping Blu-Rays to HD is. It took me ages to rip all my CDs (and I probably only had a few hundred), and I can tell you it was very painful. I shudder to think how long 400+ BDs would take. Probably forever.

It'd take a very long time.

I recently backed up my DVD's of official music/concerts (39 discs; 198 gb) and avant-garde/experimental collections (32 discs; 227 gb), and it took 3-5 hours a day/night every day for at least a week. There is no way I'd ever consider doing the same with my blu-rays.

[greekak229]

What are the chances that Limelight will get the Criterion treatment do you think? I'd really love to see that as an upcoming release.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by greekak229

What are the chances that Limelight will get the Criterion treatment do you think? I'd really love to see that as an upcoming release.

There's a good chance because they have the rights to the films Chaplin made. Not only that, but they released all of the films (including Limelight) on iTunes.

It's safe to say that we'll get The Kid sometime this year (as it was hinted during the 2013 Newsletter) and hopefully City Lights, The Circus, and Limelight are soon to follow.

[RiFiFi1955]

I wonder if Criterion still has the rights to Great Expectations after all these years since their DVD release.

[Lino11]

One thing nobody has really touched on about digital media is that in the near future...

When we are at the almost 100% digital world, you'll see that you never actually own anything anymore.

You'll pay a monthly subscription, like Spotify or Rhapsody, to rent the music/media for as long as you're a paying subscriber. As soon as you cancel, that's it, the media vanishes and you no longer have access to it, even if they were downloads to what you thought was your hard drive.

Leading into online cloud storage, and they'll charge you to rent blocks of space.

So yes, physical media will always be around. Because many of us will feel ripped off by paying for anything other than real stuff. Albeit a niche market like most have said, but one day, your grandchildren will bring their friends over to come look at your library of physical books and movies.

[Lino11]

Pulled the trigger on Army of Shadows and Le Circle Rouge that I've had in my amazon list for a while now. I have all of the OOP criterions already, I somehow just lucked into them as choices that eventually went scarce.

I only would be missing Leon, which I haven't seen but apparently everyone here is very fond of. Wasn't even on my radar, actually.

I will have to take the consensus' word for it and check this one out!!

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by Lino11

Pulled the trigger on Army of Shadows and Le Circle Rouge that I've had in my amazon list for a while now. I have all of the OOP criterions already, I somehow just lucked into them as choices that eventually went scarce.

I only would be missing Leon, which I haven't seen but apparently everyone here is very fond of. Wasn't even on my radar, actually.

I will have to take the consensus' word for it and check this one out!!

Leon Morin, Priest, while not my favorite Jean-Pierre Melville, is definitely a gem. The thing I like the most about Melville's films is that each of them seems to touch on a different perspective of World War II. With Leon Morin, Priest, Melville shows us war through the eyes of the clergy. Specifically, the viewer is painted a picture of how religion can be a very difficult thing to grasp and understand. The result is nothing short of great with in-depth interactions and conversations about faith between Belmondo and Riva.

[bingtau]

What a great film. Beautiful cinematography and camera work. The opening sequence is great as the camera is tracking the 4 protagonists through some thick brush. Truly a moving love story and story about survival. The pacing is excellent and the music score goes well with the subject matter. And for 14.99 it's a steal. 9/10 stars

[ravenus]

Here is a post detailing the work done by the Academy in conjunction with the Satyajit Ray Society for the restoration of the Ray filmography LINK - there are 19 films in that catalog and I suspect that Criterion will essentially use these restorations as a basis for their releases.

The Academy has so far restored 19 Ray titles which include such early classics like Pather Panchali (Song of the Little Road), Aparajito (The Unvanquished), Parash Pathar (The Philosopher’s Stone), Jalsaghar (The Music Room), Apur Sansar (The World of Apu), Devi (The Goddess), Teen Kanya (Three Daughters), Abhijan (The Expedition), Mahangar (The Big City) and Charulata (The Lonely Wife) as also his mid-career works like Kaprush-o-Mahapurus (The Coward and the Holy Man), Nayak (The Hero) Goopi Gyne Bagha Byne (The Adventures of Goopi and Bagha), Seemabaddha (Company Limited), Jana Aranya (The Middleman) Shatranj Ke Khilari (The Chess Players) and Joi Baba Felunath (The Elephant God). Besides, Two, a wordless, 15-minute short Ray made in 1964, and Sikkim are the lone short and documentary, respectively, that have mounted the restoration anvil till now.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by octagon

Same here. I can certainly appreciate the other two Melvilles (haven't seen Marienbad yet) but I got a lot more out of Leon Morin.

I'm surprised by that. Marienbad would be my number 2 film on the OOP list actually.

Originally Posted by SlickDamian

I'm going to have to pick up Leon Morin and Marienbad ASAP.

Yes, yes you are going to.

Originally Posted by retablo

I say it will eventually die. Newspapers are shutting done one by one. Magazines are going out of print in favor of online only editions - even Hollywood's long-standing daily Variety just published its last edition. Books are moving toward e-books, and less publishers are printing Hardbacks and paperbacks.

Will it happen in our lifetime? Who knows. The rate at which technology grows is exponential, so in as little as 5 years they could have a new codec (whatever comes after the new h.265, which halves file sizes that we have currently, with even better compression) that turns 50gb into 5gb.

Yes, there is a resurgence in vinyl, but it's very niche. Blu-ray could remain as a niche thing, but you'll only see the biggest releases (or the most eclectic), while the rest go digital only, just like vinyl now.

If film can essentially die — and while it may not ever fully die, no one is making new film cameras, and many labs have stopped processing film in favor of digital workflow — then anything can happen.

Paper books aren't going to die. Yes, I have an ebook reader with almost 3000 books on it, but I also refuse to give up my paper books. Half of my ebooks are books I own in paper, as sometimes it's more convienent to lug around a couple of kb to read War and Peace, than it is to actually read the giant book. As much as it's going to pain me to move my books, because I have a couple thousand of them, I'm not going to regret it as quite a few of my books do not have electronic copies yet, and many of them are also OOP. The ebook market is filled with a lot of crap, as everyone now thinks they're an author, due to the ease people can publish electronically. There is a lot of good, but there's still more junk than you can shake a stick at. Also, in many cases the ebooks are the same price, or more than their paper copies, thanks to Apple and their price fixing. Please explain to me why people would pay 20 bucks for an electronic copy of the latest JK Rowling book, when the hardcover is on sale for 15.

Originally Posted by Lino11

One thing nobody has really touched on about digital media is that in the near future...

When we are at the almost 100% digital world, you'll see that you never actually own anything anymore.

You'll pay a monthly subscription, like Spotify or Rhapsody, to rent the music/media for as long as you're a paying subscriber. As soon as you cancel, that's it, the media vanishes and you no longer have access to it, even if they were downloads to what you thought was your hard drive.

Leading into online cloud storage, and they'll charge you to rent blocks of space.

So yes, physical media will always be around. Because many of us will feel ripped off by paying for anything other than real stuff. Albeit a niche market like most have said, but one day, your grandchildren will bring their friends over to come look at your library of physical books and movies.

That's already happened with Kindle devices. People bought 1984, but apparently Amazon didn't clear the rights, and ended up deleting the books remotely off of the devices. Also, look at several of the Netflix and BBC iPlayer titles which have time stamps on them, where you only have a limited time to watch a title before they remove it. Although Netflix has helped to cut down on piracy, there's still many issues with the service, so people are still going to pirate.

[lim.davidd]

Originally Posted by RiFiFi1955

I wonder if Criterion still has the rights to Great Expectations after all these years since their DVD release.

I am waiting for a BluRay of this film and I hope that this time, it will be loaded with extras

[Thebunk]

Originally Posted by MasturB

It's all relevant, because right now Criterion's market is a very small handful of people like us who appreciate the art for what it is at its highest potential availability.

Should digital media ever take over and physical die, Criterion would have to rely heavily on donations to continue remastering these things. We continue supporting their products, they continue to keep remastering and distributing classic films that have a niche market.

I'd venture to say 99.9 to 100% of us that buy Criterions would NOT want to buy a digital copy and would rather own the physical hardcopy. If the markets shifted away from hardcopies, it'd be hard for Criterion to keep doing what they do best.

I mean plenty of their movies are unknown to the average movie goer. I knew about 12 Angry Men only because I was forced to watch it in Middle School. Imagine if I wasn't forced to watch it then, I'd probably likely never have known about it unless I blind bought it out of recommendation in this forum.

Criterionites are cult status.

I am not sure why you keep saying "if the market shifts, Criterion has to go with it". It makes zero sense. Again, look at inyl asan example. The whole market shifted to CDs and is moving to digital or at the very least a co-shared market of CDs and digital.

Did all vinyl plants shut down? No. Vinyl has still been pressed all be it in smaller quantities and by smaller niche labels (Mobile Fidelity, Classic Records, etc) and indie record labels (Dischord, Matador, Subpop).

The other thing you need to consider is the influence of subcultures. Record Shoppers who support vinyl and indie record stores belong to a subculture. They collect, and converse with others who have the same interests. Look at this forum you are posting on and specifically this thread. You are taking part within a community. Do you think everyone here would move to digital? Do you really thing Criterion would need to follow the market? I would like to understand your thoughts here why. Do you think they would no longer have access to pressing plants? Do you think there is no way for them to sell their DVDs/Blurays? Do you think if their volume declines, they cannot make up for it from a unit margin perspective (raise the prices)? Of all of their current sales, what percentage do you believe are those that are the normal Joe Sixpack mainstream buyer vs. that of the diehard file lover or collector?

I think you need to do some homework because this whole market moves so everyone else has to move with it is a moot point. It has happened before and some older formats are still available and some are making a good comeback (again, vinyl). Like many have said, some formats will stay while some may disappear or lose significant market share. But it is not an all or nothing situation. As long as their buyers who will buy an older format, someone will capitalize on it to make money. Collecting digital files are not the same as a physical format.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by Thebunk

This, and pretty much end of discussion in my opinion.

You'd think that, wouldn't you? You would think it. I'm sure, though, that when cassette tapes came out, there were passionate arguments about them replacing the LP record and so on. I know the debate happened when CD came out because people used to mock me for still buying indie/rock vinyl all through the 90s. Now, I could probably retire if I sold all my 90s vinyl at once. Who's laughing now?

And I never, ever thought that in the space year 2013 I'd be buying a new Bowie album on vinyl. You're a fool if you try to predict the future.

[Thebunk]

Originally Posted by KRW1

You'd think that, wouldn't you? You would think it. I'm sure, though, that when cassette tapes came out, there were passionate arguments about them replacing the LP record and so on. I know the debate happened when CD came out because people used to mock me for still buying indie/rock vinyl all through the 90s. Now, I could probably retire if I sold all my 90s vinyl at once. Who's laughing now?

And I never, ever thought that in the space year 2013 I'd be buying a new Bowie album on vinyl. You're a fool if you try to predict the future.

Agree 100%. Hah, and it is people like me paying $150 or more for an original "Melon Collie and the Infinate Sadness" (plus as you said all of the their 90s vinyl).

There will always be collectors who will pay up (both original pressings of early records as well as new limited issue runs of current releases and re-issues). And as long as people will pay, there will be a market. Speaking of which, I hope I am able to score a copy of the No Alternative compilation which is being released on April 20th (Record Store Day) in a run of only 3,000 copies. One of the the best compilations of all time and in my top 10 of all time (contains artists such as Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, The Breeders, Soul Asylem, Buffalo Tom, Matthew Sweet, etc, etc).

Sorry, for rambling about a dead format. I will try to get back on topic now.

[Member-167298]

I totally agree with the Blu Ray / vinyl analogy. The masses will buy, literally, whatever they are told to buy, but the die hard collectors will stay true to their chosen format and keep it alive.

I was talking to someone who runs a small label the other day and he was saying that they had to wait several extra months for the first pressing of a new record they were releasing because the pressing plant had such an influx of orders.

What Criterion could probably end up doing to stay in the game if the trends change is what a lot of labels do with music...release a digital download with the purchase of the physical media.

I will definitely continue to buy Blu Ray and vinyl (fun fact, my avatar is the cover of a 7" EP my old band released in 2006).

[Mansinthe]

digital downloads will always feel like pirated stuff for me..

and i will always prefer 10 (criterion) blurays over 100 digital downloads..

[Thebunk]

Originally Posted by PrestonXI

What Criterion could probably end up doing to stay in the game if the trends change is what a lot of labels do with music...release a digital download with the purchase of the physical media.
.

Yes, another great example how a market(s) can evolve. There are other ways to change vs the non predominant format to go extinct. I can definitely see this happening along with more limited runs, exclusive bonuses, etc.