The Criterion Collection

[Scottie]

I came here to post the "Ziggy Stardust" news, and was pleasantly surprised to see it already posted.

I've been hoping that Criterion would put it out for quite some time. With an inevitable announcement of "Moonage Daydream" right around the corner (excellent documentary, by the way), and this new restoration of the film, now seems like as good of a time as any.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

It perhaps is telling that Dreams is being licensed from Warner as well. The issues with licensing from Toho have apparently become even worse in recent years from everything I've read.

My first thought too when I saw this was that it kind of eliminates the notion that they're doing some big comprehensive AK box set. I mean, this wouild likely be saved for such a set, no? I've personally always ruled out such a set because there are just too many major films left for them to simply be put in a set.

My frustration with Criterion over the last couple of years is that I've grown very weary of all their clubhouse passwords and secret handshakes. In other words, while some might say that all they owe us is a solid release, I've been moving my business over to labels who actually care enough to engage in some genuine good old fashioned public relations and seem to invest in their customers as an essential component of the whole enterprise.

The world of buying and collecting discs is ever shrinking and I personally feel that more interaction with buyers and potential buyers has become a very significant element. Criterion on the other hand seems to feel that being on their ivory tower and never sharing at least some surrounding communication for the whys and why nots of their efforts is just business as usual. But it isn't anymore. The dwindling customers who very well may wind up being their sole means of support occasionally deserve a bone or two besides anonymous press releases.

[gbm82]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

My frustration with Criterion over the last couple of years is that I've grown very weary of all their clubhouse passwords and secret handshakes. In other words, while some might say that all they owe us is a solid release, I've been moving my business over to labels who actually care enough to engage in some genuine good old fashioned public relations and seem to invest in their customers as an essential component of the whole enterprise.

The world of buying and collecting discs is ever shrinking and I personally feel that more interaction with buyers and potential buyers has become a very significant element. Criterion on the other hand seems to feel that being on their ivory tower and never sharing at least some surrounding communication for the whys and why nots of their efforts is just business as usual. But it isn't anymore. The dwindling customers who very well may wind up being their sole means of support occasionally deserve a bone or two besides anonymous press releases.

They have a massive base of customers that almost no other label has... libraries, public and academic buy almost every release. They most likely have to pay more as well since it's not for personal use.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by gbm82

They have a massive base of customers that almost no other label has... libraries, public and academic buy almost every release. They most likely have to pay more as well since it's not for personal use.

I understand that, but do you think these outlets are still getting everything on discs? I was speaking of physical media specifically, but it's a good question how their "business" customers are now getting the product. I would be interested to learn that. But in any case my point was for the consumer end only and I should have made that more clear. Thanks.

[ShellOilJunior]

Some of the boutique labels maintain a presence in online forums like this site or others to interact with fans to get feedback. While I believe CC does check out message boards to see what people are saying, they have not interacted directly with fans. A long while ago, there was an interview with "Jon Mulvaney" on another forum. Other than that, Criterion seems to prefer to keep things in-house and done through social media sites.

It would be cool if Blu-ray.com and Criterion partnered for a giveaway to get fans involved. It would be fun.


*Edit - there was also an Amazon poll a long, long time ago where Criterion asked fans to pick the blu-ray release they'd be most interested in seeing. I believe Howards End won the vote.

[Dragun]

They don't really owe us anything more than good releases and customer service. When issues do crop up (like with Citizen Kane 4K) they're generally very good with replacement discs. I also had an order that was shipped but never showed up and they promptly sent the discs again.

I wish they'd switch to a better encoding house, but other than that I can't say I have any major complaints with Criterion.

[MifuneFan]

I would say, just because Criterion doesn't engage with their community through forums does not mean they don't engaged with them at all. If you look at the Twitter feeds for Janus and Criterion, they are very active, and engage with people there. They also have Instagram, and Letterboxd accounts that do the same.

I'm not even sure how we define public relations here. Is it completely separate from their customer service? Because I find there's some overlap there, and Criterion has arguably the best customer service of any boutique label. Anytime I've reached out to Criterion, I've gotten great responses back. Whether it's inquires about an existing product, or some info about a future project. They've also likely taken my suggestions on commissioning specific artists like the Balbusso sisters, and Alice X. Zhang among others, considering the timing of my emails, and their work showing up in the collection.

We also know Criterion has been publicly responsive to criticism. First when they were called out for not having enough female directors in the collection, and then when they were called out for not having enough black filmmakers in there. And I'd say they've done a hell of a job acknowledging these blind-spots, and starting to correct them. All of this I consider to be public relations, i don't see how it could not be. Just because they're not engaging directly with forum members on here, does not mean they're acting holier than thou. I don't see any sort of arrogance in that regard.

Aside from addressing those blind-spots above, I also feel they've tried to expand their collection of world cinema output beyond just Japanese, Italian, and French films. People complain about that, but it's absolutely great to see more films from Scandinavia, Iran, Africa, S. Korea, and many others that barely got any spotlight on them in the "good ol'" DVD days. I also find it amazing just how fickle some people on here are. Last month, Criterion announced After Hours on 4K, something people have been asking / dreaming for, for god knows how long now. And not only that, they announced One False Move 4K, and more. Criterion are the king of the world as of a month ago. Now comes this week, and they announce a great Swedish box set, a rediscovered film the from the 1990's, a new Wayne Wang film, and a freaking Kurosawa film on 4K, and people whine and say how much they fell off.. There are some serious biases, and double-standards going on here. If Radiance for instance announced this same Bo Widerberg boxset, people would be saying how amazing Radiance is, and it would get a lot more praise and notice than this set being announced by Criterion.

[WillieMLF]

Originally Posted by mifunefan

aside from addressing those blind-spots above, i also feel they've tried to expand their collection of world cinema output beyond just japanese, italian, and french films. People complain about that, but it's absolutely great to see more films from scandinavia, iran, africa, s. Korea, and many others that barely got any spotlight on them in the "good ol'" dvd days. I also find it amazing just how fickle some people on here are. Last month, criterion announced after hours on 4k, something people have been asking / dreaming for, for god knows how long now. And not only that, they announced one false move 4k, and more. Criterion are the king of the world as of a month ago. Now comes this week, and they announce a great swedish box set, a rediscovered film the from the 1990's, a new wayne wang film, and a freaking kurosawa film on 4k, and people whine and say how much they fell off.. There are some serious biases, and double-standards going on here. If radiance for instance announced this same bo widerberg boxset, people would be saying how amazing radiance is, and it would get a lot more praise and notice than this set being announced by criterion.

wow!

Wow!!!!!!

Someone finally said it!!!!!!

[Rayjg]

I don't think an AK box is happening. I thought maybe Warner didn't want Dreams included in a box set with other licenses but then aren't there a few Warner licenses in the Once Upon a Time in China set?

[NeilZ]

Originally Posted by Rayjg

I don't think an AK box is happening. I thought maybe Warner didn't want Dreams included in a box set with other licenses but then aren't there a few Warner licenses in the Once Upon a Time in China set?

Yes, but as others have pointed out Criterion also released a bunch of Bergman movies prior to and even after the release of the big box set. It doesn't necessarily preclude an incoming box set.

Seeing that Ozu is being celebrated this year it seems more likely he'd get a boxset and the Kurosawa box might still be a while away.

[Rayjg]

Originally Posted by NeilZ

Yes, but as others have pointed out Criterion also released a bunch of Bergman movies prior to and even after the release of the big box set. It doesn't necessarily preclude an incoming box set.

Seeing that Ozu is being celebrated this year it seems more likely he'd get a boxset and the Kurosawa box might still be a while away.

I'd be down for an Ozu box set. I recently watched Good Morning and thought it was hilarious. Probably my favorite film of his so far that I've seen.

[gbm82]

Originally Posted by Rayjg

I'd be down for an Ozu box set. I recently watched Good Morning and thought it was hilarious. Probably my favorite film of his so far that I've seen.

Out of the ones you haven't seen, which is your favorite?

[Rayjg]

Originally Posted by gbm82

Out of the ones you haven't seen, which is your favorite?

Probably one of his many lost films

[DukeTogo84]

A lot of good perspectives from both sides, but I still stand by the fact that Criterion is mostly a shell of its former self. It's not quite an empty husk, but it's getting there.

The main problem (outside of not releasing enough Japanese films) is that there there seems to be a lot of repetitiveness which possibly could have been avoided by getting in the 4K game earlier. Criterion doesn't have a lot of slots for new releases a month. 4-5 and that's it. I know people eat up every ounce of extra clarity that's given to them, but some films don't really need 4K upgrades over films that don't have HD treatments at all. Do we really need another Time Bandits, Fisher King, Dreams, when they already look exceptional on Blu-ray? For some yes, but I say give us films that have only been released on DVD. Give those the jump to Blu-ray and 4K first, and even just Blu-ray if that's only possible.

Sure they responded to a lack of female directors and African-American filmmakers, but then in order to "prove" themselves, they go overboard as if they are trying to make up for lost time and give us even more films that already had decent Blu-rays like Love and Basketball. There goes another slot to something that didn't even have a Blu-ray. Damn it.

I think their technical merits are pretty good. Some complain about compression, but I still think they deliver a solid package. I just think they need to stop with releasing so many films that already have good Blu-ray releases when they have about 500 titles that don't. Stop with the BS of another Millers Crossing or Chilly Scenes of Winter and the list goes on and on. If they were releasing titles like Kino does, then the double dips wouldn't be as much of an issue, but they aren't doing that. I always thought they had a higher level of resources than any other label, and IF that's the case, then they need to step it up and release more films a month

I once considered Criterion the high echelon of home video releases. Now, I consider them the boot heel. I don't wish them ill will, but I do wish that they would let go of a lot of their licensed titles or at least sublicense, because right now their movie vaults keep getting larger and these films continue to go unseen. The fact that that they are regulated to a small streaming service is a film travesty. This is why my dislike for them grows day by day. Oh, and and that they don't release enough NEW to HD Japanese films.

I'm not trying to frustrate anyone, but want to offer opposing perspectives to what is being presented here and in a respectful fashion.

[themp3000]

Oh for the love of Mulvaney…

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I would say, just because Criterion doesn't engage with their community through forums does not mean they don't engaged with them at all. If you look at the Twitter feeds for Janus and Criterion, they are very active, and engage with people there. They also have Instagram, and Letterboxd accounts that do the same.

I'm not even sure how we define public relations here. Is it completely separate from their customer service? Because I find there's some overlap there, and Criterion has arguably the best customer service of any boutique label. Anytime I've reached out to Criterion, I've gotten great responses back. Whether it's inquires about an existing product, or some info about a future project. They've also likely taken my suggestions on commissioning specific artists like the Balbusso sisters, and Alice X. Zhang among others, considering the timing of my emails, and their work showing up in the collection.

We also know Criterion has been publicly responsive to criticism. First when they were called out for not having enough female directors in the collection, and then when they were called out for not having enough black filmmakers in there. And I'd say they've done a hell of a job acknowledging these blind-spots, and starting to correct them. All of this I consider to be public relations, i don't see how it could not be. Just because they're not engaging directly with forum members on here, does not mean they're acting holier than thou. I don't see any sort of arrogance in that regard.

Aside from addressing those blind-spots above, I also feel they've tried to expand their collection of world cinema output beyond just Japanese, Italian, and French films. People complain about that, but it's absolutely great to see more films from Scandinavia, Iran, Africa, S. Korea, and many others that barely got any spotlight on them in the "good ol'" DVD days. I also find it amazing just how fickle some people on here are. Last month, Criterion announced After Hours on 4K, something people have been asking / dreaming for, for god knows how long now. And not only that, they announced One False Move 4K, and more. Criterion are the king of the world as of a month ago. Now comes this week, and they announce a great Swedish box set, a rediscovered film the from the 1990's, a new Wayne Wang film, and a freaking Kurosawa film on 4K, and people whine and say how much they fell off.. There are some serious biases, and double-standards going on here. If Radiance for instance announced this same Bo Widerberg boxset, people would be saying how amazing Radiance is, and it would get a lot more praise and notice than this set being announced by Criterion.

Very good points and I certainly cannot debate all of them because they represent a good rebuttal. For instance, I do not maintain any social media presence, having rid myself of all of them some years back. That renders me ignorant of their attempts to interact with the public on such venues. Also, while I don't think customer service is synonymous with public relations, that disagreement can just come down to semantics. As for Criterion's attempts to address issues brought up by entities like the New York Times, I don't define that as interacting with any attempt to appease the public as much as attempting to appease the New York Times. But as I said, these are minor points that I myself don't feel merit any big conflicts.

I do though still stand by most of what I posted regarding an inherent secrecy surrounding so much of what they do. I don't feel your last paragraph applies to me or my post because the dissatisfaction I myself expressed is not a point of contention only when a monthly announcement does not include more generally "popular" titles. I have felt for a long time that they coast on a rarefied image, some of it earned no doubt, but that such practices no longer have a place in the business/hobby. Of course, I'm not suggesting that they reveal sensitive internal details, but just have more of a presence in dealing with the public besides responding to requests or showing off celebrities in their offices

One cannot deny that there are constant complaints surrounding aspects of their business model, things like what films are or are not available or at least being considered, why are some acquired titles seemingly buried for years, why do some films merit only a DVD instead of a Blu release or a Blu instead of a 4K. They don't have to maintain a presence on this specific site, but there are many outlets where they could adopt a more personal touch to the very people who help keep them in business. Does anyone think George Feltenstein's appearances on a podcast to discuss his label are a bad thing?

Criterion gets too many free passes from too many people, but this is my own personal opinion and while I do listen and respect differing views, it's hard to convince me that Criterion does not give the impression they are above such marketing considerations nor that it won't come back to haunt them. In the last two years they went from being my favorite label all the way to my sixth. And guess what, none of this has to do with releasing or not releasing any Japanese cinema.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Rayjg

I don't think an AK box is happening.

For example.

How many years has this Kurosawa box set been rumored and discussed and anticipated and doubted and btched and moaned? And not just on this site, but in many many places online and other outlets. Would it really break Criterion's image to make even a cryptic announcement that might hint it could be a possibility or might not be a possibility? Wouldn't it help them in the long run to instill some confidence in loyal customers that their waiting and not buying competing products elsewhere may be rewarded?

[NeilZ]

Originally Posted by DukeTogo84

A lot of good perspectives from both sides, but I still stand by the fact that Criterion is mostly a shell of its former self. It's not quite an empty husk, but it's getting there.

The main problem (outside of not releasing enough Japanese films) is that there there seems to be a lot of repetitiveness which possibly could have been avoided by getting in the 4K game earlier. Criterion doesn't have a lot of slots for new releases a month. 4-5 and that's it. I know people eat up every ounce of extra clarity that's given to them, but some films don't really need 4K upgrades over films that don't have HD treatments at all. Do we really need another Time Bandits, Fisher King, Dreams, when they already look exceptional on Blu-ray? For some yes, but I say give us films that have only been released on DVD. Give those the jump to Blu-ray and 4K first, and even just Blu-ray if that's only possible.

Sure they responded to a lack of female directors and African-American filmmakers, but then in order to "prove" themselves, they go overboard as if they are trying to make up for lost time and give us even more films that already had decent Blu-rays like Love and Basketball. There goes another slot to something that didn't even have a Blu-ray. Damn it.

I think their technical merits are pretty good. Some complain about compression, but I still think they deliver a solid package. I just think they need to stop with releasing so many films that already have good Blu-ray releases when they have about 500 titles that don't. Stop with the BS of another Millers Crossing or Chilly Scenes of Winter and the list goes on and on. If they were releasing titles like Kino does, then the double dips wouldn't be as much of an issue, but they aren't doing that. I always thought they had a higher level of resources than any other label, and IF that's the case, then they need to step it up and release more films a month

I once considered Criterion the high echelon of home video releases. Now, I consider them the boot heel. I don't wish them ill will, but I do wish that they would let go of a lot of their licensed titles or at least sublicense, because right now their movie vaults keep getting larger and these films continue to go unseen. The fact that that they are regulated to a small streaming service is a film travesty. This is why my dislike for them grows day by day. Oh, and and that they don't release enough NEW to HD Japanese films.

I'm not trying to frustrate anyone, but want to offer opposing perspectives to what is being presented here and in a respectful fashion.

I don't disagree with what you say although for the record Fisher King absolutely did need a new 4k scan but that's a minor matter.

I think the main reason we are seeing so many of their biggest selling titles being rushed to 4k is exactly for that, to improve their sales.

They've had to make cuts on their staff and as a business were clearly not doing as well in recent years.

I'm inclined to believe this is a direct result of them diversifying into categories of films that probably don't sell as well (I know Mifunefan is happy that we're getting unknown films from smaller countries, but I don't think those are hot sellers).

Criterion may have had more leeway because they are so big and have support from libraries and the likes, but at the end of the day they too need to run a profitable business. Upgrading David Lynch, Terry Gilliam, Martin Scorsese, or George Romero to 4K is an easy way for them to get there.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

For example.

How many years has this Kurosawa box set been rumored and discussed and anticipated and doubted and b i t c hed and moaned? And not just on this site, but in many many places online and other outlets. Would it really break Criterion's image to make even a cryptic announcement that might hint it could be a possibility or might not be a possibility? Wouldn't it help them in the long run to instill some confidence in loyal customers that their waiting and not buying competing products elsewhere may be rewarded?

But a Kurosawa box set is a pure invention by some members of this site. Should Criterion entertain something that 1.) they had zero plans to make and 2.) they probably can't due to potential issues with Toho. You're asking for hints and transparency of something that does not exist, nor has ever been close to a whisper of a hint from them. So on this point, I wholly disagree here.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

But a Kurosawa box set is a pure invention by some members of this site. Should Criterion entertain something that 1.) they had zero plans to make and 2.) they probably can't due to potential issues with Toho. You're asking for hints and transparency of something that does not exist, nor has ever been close to a whisper of a hint from them. So on this point, I wholly disagree here.

Maybe so. I worked in the script departments for the major studios in Los Angeles for over 35 years and the policy was always mums the word on most things. At times it made perfect sense, but at other times it came back to bite us on the you know what. Sometimes dispelling a rumor is more valuable than silence. It can work wonders as a gesture of good will, but perhaps Criterion, who may not have instigated it, but surely are aware of the rumor as it's not just in the purview of these forums, feels they get more momentum out of just leaving it alone. That's a business idea whose potential success is open for debate. As much as I've sparred with the public rep for KINO, I have always appreciated when he shares if something might be in the works or isn't and many times why or why not. Whatever the reality, Criterion won't divulge anything anyway so it's all moot.

Interesting discussion and I see value in both of our perspectives.