The Criterion Collection

[rock, stone]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalek

OK, I'm with you. Criterion definitely has something for everyone, and yes we sometimes come off like spoiled brats who didn't get their white iPhones for Christmas.

Short of people just keeping their opinions to themselves, it's going to go on ad infinitum. Just the fact that Criterion has such an extensive back catalog awaiting upgrade is going to be ammunition enough month after month.

I'll try to keep my comments positive going forward but I felt it relevant to point out how Criterion have some serious competition these days, especially for region-free folks, especially with titles they hold North American license to.

I've said it before, but if "I" want every film Criterion released over a couple months, they aren't really doing their job.

[hedliniv]

I am hoping that they issue this one on blu-ray as well!! Come on Criterion!!

Originally Posted by greekak229

As a lover of Japanese cinema, Toshiro Mifune and samurai films, I just now came across a film called Samurai Rebellion and shame on me, I suppose. Don't care if it's a DVD, I just had to order it.

[greekak229]

Originally Posted by hedliniv

I am hoping that they issue this one on blu-ray as well!! Come on Criterion!!

The Sword of Doom is another movie I would absolutely love on Blu-ray.

[Guitar Joe]

Originally Posted by octagon

Speaking of UK offerings, I ordered Picnic at Hanging Rock last night which should put it in play - if not make it a dead-bang lock - for the next round of announcements.

That might be the upgrade I want the most from Criterion.


So, thanks! Your sacrifice has been duly noted.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by octagon

I just had this same conversation with a friend a few days ago. He was aghast when I told him I paid $60ish for a (hopefully decent, I haven't received it yet) copy of The Man Who Fell to Earth.
It's not going to go down and I'm not going to stop wanting it so...

I on the other hand spent 9GBP for Optimum's BD release of Man Who Fell to Earth...and a similar amount on Second Sight's amazing release of Picnic at Hanging Rock. So ya, I appreciate Criterion releases but I don't have a fetish for them when there are perfectly acceptable alternatives.

[octagon]

If only all my fetishes were so affordable.

[oildude]

Originally Posted by *DrStrangelove*

I'm gonna start watching some Oshima. Think ill watch Pleasures of the Flesh first. Is that a good one to start with?

That is what I did. I went in the order they are listed, which IIRC is chronological. Below in italics is a repost of what I wrote about Oshima's Outlaw Sixties two weeks ago. It is a great Eclipse set. I would be interested in hearing other's thoughts on Sing a Song of Sex, but please do not click on the spoiler link below until you have watched it.

One thing that strikes me about Oshima is that in many of his films that I have seen he is frequently very aware of the darker side of the Japanese psyche. He often acknowledges the postwar implications of the formerly death-obsessed nature of society during the militaristic period before and during WWII, including its cultural impacts and carryover into a rebuilt and thriving Japan. The films in this set were all made barely 20 years after Japan's surrender, and only 10 after the nation signed a final peace treaty with the US.

Pleasures of the Flesh and Japanese Summer: Double Suicide are probably my favorites if I had to choose. Each film in the set is unique, not just in plot, but also in overall look and "feel", despite re-using some of the same actors (who are invariably great in each role they play). I kind of think of this like it is a Japanese BBS set, all directed by Oshima.

The most complex and memorable film in the set by far, in my opinion, is Sing a Song of Sex. At its core, Sing a Song of Sex chronicles the actions of four disillusioned and frequently callous Japanese young men who seem unaffected by and disinterested in the social activism swirling around them. Parts of it are laugh-out-loud funny in the antics of the four students, making it both the most humorous and the most darkly serious film in the Eclipse set. It has multiple layers and subtexts involving, among other things, getting laid, forced sex fantasies, the poor treatment of Koreans in Japanese society, the clash of traditions vs 1960s modernism in post-war Japan, and even the deeper social and political meanings in bawdy pub songs sung by working class Japanese (hence, the title of the film). Ironically, the bawdy nature of these songs is what attracts the young men, and singing them seems to be their only connection to the social activism surrounding them.

Elements of the movie reminded me a lot of Pierrot le Feu. Sing a Song of Sex is a magnificent film, but one that ultimately left me a bit confused by the ending.

BIG SPOILER so don't click if you haven't seen it yet.

[Show spoiler]The final fifteen minutes of the film left me baffled. What exactly happened at the end...or is it intentionally ambiguous and that is all there is? Was Student 469 actually strangled by the main male character Nakamura? Not sure why if that is the case - unless it is to prevent her from acting out the rape fantasy to its conclusion to save her from the shame felt by the Korean girl, and in a strange leap of logic also "saving" her in a way he did not save his teacher.

Anyone with a theory is welcome to PM me. I think it would be too hard to discuss it here without spoiler tags or unintentionally ruining it for someone who has not seen it yet.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by SpiderBaby

This board going on and on about 1 5 minute short in an entire set of films by an experimental filmmaker while completely being negative about something they never knew existed until yesterday makes me want to leave this forum.

Well, in my case, not quite SpiderBaby. As mentioned in a previous post, I did endure several of Hollis Frampton's shorts at a festival screening back in the late 70s, and felt I saw enough of his work to develop a reasonable opinion.

Although I've read your posts with genuine interest, and have appreciated many of your tips and insights, you have your fair share of pets and pee-ohs too. Just like we all do. I certainly understand that whenever you've dismissed some films that I rather liked, but I wouldn't think to call you out on it...because...heck, it's just your opinion, and that's more than okay, it's to be expected. Life would be so dull is we had the same POV. Mostly I just chuckle and think "Ooooooh, he really doesn't like that film or filmmaker." No foul. The earth still orbits the sun.

It would be a shame though if we had to validate our artistic tastes every time we vehemently disagreed on the value of something in or out of this collection. But for anyone here who does want to compare 'badges of honour' regarding experimental film, I actually made it through all 45 minutes of Michael Snow's landmark 'short' Wavelength (eventual running time unknown when it began unspooling). Actually, that was the first thing I thought of when I heard about Criterion's Frampton Blu. Like Brakhage, Buñuel, Warhol, Anger, McLaren, and Morrissey (among many others), Snow's experimental work was at least influential (Kubrick's slow zoom final shot in The Shining was a direct reference to Wavelength). But Hollis Frampton? Sidebar and footnote at best, which is what really riled me about this announcement. Any of the other filmmakers mentioned above deserved consideration for the collection first. Criterion didn't drop the ball here; they picked up the wrong one. Again, just my opinion.

Originally Posted by SpiderBaby

Anybody watch something like Winter Solstice or (nostalgia) yet or just watching the fruit short? For people that is suppose to be curious in filmmaking, some of you sure are limited in what you want to explore and learn. Though like someone has pointed out to me before, it's the blu-ray forum, so "PQ" is more important than anything.

...which is even more salt on the wounds. This was all Super 8 or 16mm stuff, so 1080p is totally wasted here. IMO, this is the kind of thing that should have gone to Eclipse DVD rather than the Czech New Wave films. Not only was Frampton not particularly influential (if at all), his tools were far too crude to warrant high def presentation.

However, when I do inevitably get around to this set (for the first time since buying Criterion Blu-rays, I'll be holding out for the absolute cheapest deal I can find), I will likely go straight to its special features. Truth be told, I'm still curious why Criterion thought this guy's work was such an important contribution to world cinema, while ignoring several other far more influential and still potent bodies of experimental work.

[rkish]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalek

No proposal.

Hey rkish, the Ozu PDF downloaded just fine. Thanks for the link. When I get around to diving into Ozu I'll have a great reference to supplement the films.

Cool! Glad to be of help. It's a great book to print out, but make sure you have plenty of ink and paper!

[rkish]

Originally Posted by SpiderBaby

Daisies.

Here is Second Run's trailer to give you a tiny idea what to expect:

Daisies - YouTube

Thanks Spidey...I just took a couple of minutes to watch that trailer. A bit different then I thought it would be. From the minimal amount that I saw of that film, it seems the director was influenced by Godard. If that is the case...then I can see part of your personal interest in this film and those of the other New Wave directors.

Of the films from this set that you've already seen...which one is your favorite?

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by Monty70

I would love to hear what you thought of the film.

I'm still trying to figure out what I thought of the film. I alternated between laughing and going WTF?, and did enjoy it a lot, but I'm still highly confused by it, and can't fathom why it's supposedly Polanski's best. I feel like I'm missing something that's starring me right in the face. I definitely need to watch it again.

Originally Posted by SpiderBaby

This board going on and on about 1 5 minute short in an entire set of films by an experimental filmmaker while completely being negative about something they never knew existed until yesterday makes me want to leave this forum.

Anybody watch something like Winter Solstice or (nostalgia) yet or just watching the fruit short? For people that is suppose to be curious in filmmaking, some of you sure are limited in what you want to explore and learn. Though like someone has pointed out to me before, it's the blu-ray forum, so "PQ" is more important than anything.

SB, don't leave the forum! I value your opinions, even when I don't always agree with them. You've got me interested into quite a few films outside of my comfort zone, such as World on a Wire. I do agree with you that a lot of people are being rather negative though. I don't have an issue about people being disappointed that their films aren't coming out, and I've been disappointed too, but as Joe Dalek pointed out, they are being quite bratty about it. I think a lot of people are just assuming Criterion can churn stuff out willy nilly, and often forget that they're not a major studio.

No wonder why the rest of the board thinks this section is the snob section, with the way people have been criticising Criterion's choices for the past 3 days. Either they're too obscure, or too mainstream. Which is it people?

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

Well, in my case, not quite SpiderBaby. As mentioned in a previous post, I did endure several of Hollis Frampton's shorts at a festival screening back in the late 70s, and felt I saw enough of his work to develop a reasonable opinion.

Although I've read your posts with genuine interest, and have appreciated many of your tips and insights, you have your fair share of pets and pee-ohs too. Just like we all do. I certainly understand that whenever you've dismissed some films that I rather liked, but I wouldn't think to call you out on it...because...heck, it's just your opinion, and that's more than okay, it's to be expected. Life would be so dull is we had the same POV. Mostly I just chuckle and think "Ooooooh, he really doesn't like that film or filmmaker." No foul. The earth still orbits the sun.

It would be a shame though if we had to validate our artistic tastes every time we vehemently disagreed on the value of something in or out of this collection. But for anyone here who does want to compare 'badges of honour' regarding experimental film, I actually made it through all 45 minutes of Michael Snow's landmark 'short' Wavelength (eventual running time unknown when it began unspooling). Actually, that was the first thing I thought of when I heard about Criterion's Frampton Blu. Like Brakhage, Buñuel, Warhol, Anger, McLaren, and Morrissey (among many others), Snow's experimental work was at least influential (Kubrick's slow zoom final shot in The Shining was a direct reference to Wavelength). But Hollis Frampton? Sidebar and footnote at best, which is what really riled me about this announcement. Any of the other filmmakers mentioned above deserved consideration for the collection first. Criterion didn't drop the ball here; they picked up the wrong one. Again, just my opinion.

...which is even more salt on the wounds. This was all Super 8 or 16mm stuff, so 1080p is totally wasted here. IMO, this is the kind of thing that should have gone to Eclipse DVD rather than the Czech New Wave films. Not only was Frampton not particularly influential (if at all), his tools were far too crude to warrant high def presentation.

However, when I do inevitably get around to this set (for the first time since buying Criterion Blu-rays, I'll be holding out for the absolute cheapest deal I can find), I will likely go straight to its special features. Truth be told, I'm still curious why Criterion thought this guy's work was such an important contribution to world cinema, while ignoring several other far more influential and still potent bodies of experimental work.

I don't know anything about Frampton, so I can't say whether or not I like him one way or the other, but I just went to Wikipedia and found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollis_Frampton

He's apparently not a "footnote or a sidebar." You're just injecting personal opinion from something you saw 30 years ago. Have you tried watching Frampton since then? I've often written off films, only to revisit them years late and change my opinion about them, because my experiences have changed. I've also had the opposite happen, there's a lot of films I used to love, but can no longer stand.

People are being too dismissive of Criterion's releases because they don't match their personal tastes. It's fine if you don't like something, but it doesn't mean you constantly have have to put it down and try to impose your standards onto someone else. It's the same as people hyping up releases by directors and trying to force others to like it when they may be indifferent, or dislike it.

[rkish]

Originally Posted by zui

Big thanks from me, too. It took a while to download the pdf but it looks as if it was well worth it. ;-)

Hm, looks like I missed the announcement day.
I may have to take a closer look at the Hollis Frampton Boxset since I'm a fan of experimental/ avant-garde filmmaking. Just watched part of the Kenneth Anger Blu-ray set yesterday evening. His complete Magick Lantern Cycle has to be one of my favorite Blu-ray releases to date.

The most interesting announcement (although DVD only) has to be the Czech new wave set. I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on that one.
It's also real nice to see Criterion releasing some Ozu on Blu-ray but they won't get any of my money there 'cause it has already been well spent on several BFI releases. Though, I'm currently losing interest in Ozu's work and rather find myself drawn to films by Oshima, Imamura, Terayama, Matsumoto and Teshigahara.

Enjoy the book!

I haven't had the pleasure of watching any of the Anger films...but I should get around to it one of these days. The BD has been pretty affordable and I hope to catch of few of his films online, to see what I think. Spidey was thrilled when he found out that the UK BD of his films was region free.

[JHas]

Originally Posted by BohemianGraham

I'm still trying to figure out what I thought of the film. I alternated between laughing and going WTF?, and did enjoy it a lot, but I'm still highly confused by it, and can't fathom why it's supposedly Polanski's best. I feel like I'm missing something that's starring me right in the face. I definitely need to watch it again.

I wouldn't say it's his best film, but definitely gets better with repeat viewings.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by JHas

I wouldn't say it's his best film, but definitely gets better with repeat viewings.

Chinatown is my personal favourite by Polanski. Even though I've only watched it once, I'm inclined to agree with you about Cul-de-Sac, as I feel like I'm missing something, and will probably pick up on something new the next time I watched it. I still manage to find something new in films I've watched more than 20 times or so.

I'm glad I traded for it, and not just because I got rid of my extra copy of Dazed and Confused. It was a highly enjoyable watch, despite my confusion, as I did get quite a few really good laughs out of it, and really enjoyed Donald Pleasence's role, as it was a huge departure from the type of films I know his from.

[DetroitSquirreL]

Before the flaming starts, I looked through the thread but couldn't find the answer in here but.......'Curious case of Benjamin Button', why did this Criterion NOT get a Criterion case?

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by DetroitSquirreL

Before the flaming starts, I looked through the thread but couldn't find the answer in here but.......'Curious case of Benjamin Button', why did this Criterion NOT get a Criterion case?

It's more of a "Paramount" film, rather than a Criterion one.

Many say "Criterion in name only" although regardless of who had the lion's share of work into the supplemental material and transfer, a great job was done with this one.


EDIT:

I was out of town during the announcements, but I have looked them over now, and I'm pleased with some, thrilled with one, unaware of a couple others.

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by Beta Man

It's more of a "Paramount" film, rather than a Criterion one.

Many say "Criterion in name only" although regardless of who had the lion's share of work into the supplemental material and transfer, a great job was done with this one.


EDIT:

I was out of town during the announcements, but I have looked them over now, and I'm pleased with some, thrilled with one, unaware of a couple others.

You and SB seem to be the only ones thrilled about Frampton.

I'll watch Frampton when I get a chance, but I can't say that avant-garde or experimental film makers are my cup of tea. I couldn't get into La Jetee, nor Brakhage's works. That's not to dismiss those works entirely, however. I don't think highly of them, nor do I think highly of Salo, but there's no denying their importance (although with Salo, I do disagree on its importance, but I don't think Criterion shouldn't release it).

However, more power to Criterion for showcasing this stuff, as no one else will.

[SpiderBaby]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

Truth be told, I'm still curious why Criterion thought this guy's work was such an important contribution to world cinema, while ignoring several other far more influential and still potent bodies of experimental work.

That can be said about many of the releases they do. They have even came out before and said they are friends with some filmmakers and that is why they release their films (and not because they are "important"). There are also times when people come to them to release titles. So the "Collection" isn't anymore "important" than any other dvd company.

Also, I agree with you that I much rather have seen a Michael Snow release before a Frampton one, though I want everything I can get and like I said, who knows why Criterion chooses one thing over others.

[K-Durden]

Sorry when someone else asks or said something about but i want to know if THE GAME by Fincher would be release as a criterion? I had the German (international European Copy) and the quality is only a bit better than the DVD Release, so because i read something about a Criterion Copy a few month ago I want to know some new Informations ?

Greetz Durden