The Criterion Collection

[SpiderBaby]

Originally Posted by octagon

So what's the conventional thinking on Heaven's Gate these days? Is it still widely regarded as an incoherent disaster or have critics had second thoughts over the years?

A poor performance at the box office starring Kris Kristofferson, and they couldn't release The Last Movie? At least that doesn't have accusations of animal rights abuse and won the Critics Prize at the Venice Film Festival.

[SpiderBaby]

Originally Posted by rkish

I'm not as big a fan of Samurai and/or "period" films, but I'm open minded. Is there any other film(s)/director(s) that would be a close comparison to this particular film and/or Kinugasa's style of directing?

Do you remember who you are talking to?

I can't really recommend anything other than trying to find more Teinosuke Kinugasa films on the internet maybe.

[Akijama]

Ebert's take on Heaven's Gate



I'll give it a try,tho.Maybe critics are wrong with this one.Just maybe..

[rkish]

Originally Posted by HyperRealist

They ship individually as they become available. It took them a few weeks to get my pre-order of Once Upon a Time in Anatolia and I am still waiting for The Turin Horse to ship.

Thank you Sir! Have you or anyone had any experience with Criterion releases? Do they typically release them early/on time, or have you ever had a release delayed because of stocking issues? Keaton's "The Saphead" got to me much earlier than expected.

EDIT: Sorry...more questions...I placed Lonesome, Quadrohenia, and The Royal Tenenbaums in my basket and noticed that Lonesome and Quadrophenia are showing up under availability in red as "(0) Pre-Order". Is this normal for preorders that are a month or more away (as I see Tenenbaums isn't tagged this way)?

[rkish]

Originally Posted by SpiderBaby

Do you remember who you are talking to?

I can't really recommend anything other than trying to find more Teinosuke Kinugasa films on the internet maybe.

Oh...I know you well enough...that's why I was a little surprised at your ardent interest in this type of film.

Thanks for the heads up...I'll see if I can supplement my lack of knowledge on the films of Kinugasa.

[ShellOilJunior]

Originally Posted by octagon

So what's the conventional thinking on Heaven's Gate these days? Is it still widely regarded as an incoherent disaster or have critics had second thoughts over the years?

That's what I'd like to know, too.

Before I conclude this is a case of Criterion romanticizing a disaster I'd like to hear opinions of people that have seen the film.

[ShellOilJunior]

Originally Posted by SpiderBaby

A poor performance at the box office starring Kris Kristofferson, and they couldn't release The Last Movie? At least that doesn't have accusations of animal rights abuse and won the Critics Prize at the Venice Film Festival.

Even before Heaven's Gate... I mean they released Drive He Said/A Safe Place...

Plus, they announced what I believe is a novelty film in

[Show spoiler]The Game

.

There's no reason they can't give us some more Hopper films. I'd really like to see Out of the Blue. Any idea who owns rights to it?

[SpiderBaby]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

Even before Heaven's Gate... I mean they released Drive He Said/A Safe Place...

Plus, they announced what I believe is a novelty film in

[Show spoiler]The Game

.

There's no reason they can't give us some more Hopper films. I'd really like to see Out of the Blue. Any idea who owns rights to it?

Yes (who do you think you are talking to), a distributor named John Alan Simon. He also controls that new 35mm print that was toured around last summer. Criterion has no rivals in picking this up (he wants to re-release this on dvd), other than Criterion (they don't seem to dislike the film, even referencing it on a tweet last summer during the print's run at Anthology Film Archives, which caused me to have my eyes pop out in hopes that I see it released on blu-ray one day). It's also recently got dvd releases in other Countries as of last year.


The Last Movie on the other hand, Hopper Estate. Wonder what the update to that Estate battle is? Criterion can sell that film on the cast alone compared to Heaven's Gate.

Alex Cox is making a new doc on The Last Movie. So we will have 2 docs (the other being Hopper's own The American Dreamer) for this film, and it's not even on dvd anywhere in the world. Sad.

[SpiderBaby]

HyperRealist, who were you talking about?

[HyperRealist]

sorry i was just thinking out loud again. not you. someone that posts all the time but isn't here now.

[SpiderBaby]

Originally Posted by HyperRealist

sorry i was just thinking out loud again. not you

oh. We will keep it between us then.

[TJS_Blu]

Originally Posted by rkish

If you preorder a number of things in the same order, do they all ship at once or do they ship individually as per their release dates? Is it any cheaper to order in bulk?

Thanks!

Don't know about individual shipments, I tend to get clusters. The available to ship upon order goes out and then the pre-orders when available. No difference in charge, what you commit to pay is what you pay regardless of their shipping decisions.

[jrsl76]

Originally Posted by Yami

I would be surprised if Criterion doesn't include both the 149min (theatrical) and 219min (director's) cuts. I'd really like to see the 325min cut, which is probably closest to Cimino's vision (?)

This is kind of a joke. Yes, he may have had a vision, but his megalomania destroyed it all.

It's an interesting and very flawed film when I watched it. I believe I watched the 219 version.

All I know is this. My sound professor from film school worked on Heaven's Gate as the Re-recorder Mixer (as he did on The Deer Hunter where he won an Oscar). Whatever went down lead him to a bit of a mental breakdown, as I understand it. He had worked on Hollywood films for years (Nashville, Star Wars, New York New York, McCabe And Mrs. Miller, etc.), but I think between this and Robert Altman ****ing him over on a deal where they were opening a mini studio/production company or facility, it pushed him somewhat out of the business.

[TJS_Blu]

Originally Posted by octagon

So what's the conventional thinking on Heaven's Gate these days?

Doubt this qualifies as "conventional" or a "thought". When someone mentions Heaven's Gate my immediate reaction is the clip that was shown on the Siskel-Ebert show of the day (Sneak Previews?) where there was a ridiculously long shot (like no facial features) of a couple in a wagon in a locust swarm shreaking something in a foriegn language with subtitles like 'Help, oh Help!'.

Put it this way, it'll require a fair amount of romancing before I'd go on a semi-blind date with this one.

[Brad1963]

Was there ever a version of Heaven's Gate that was considered moderately good, or is it still just a bit of movie trivia?

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

That's what I'd like to know, too.

Before I conclude this is a case of Criterion romanticizing a disaster I'd like to hear opinions of people that have seen the film.

Shell, unfortunately I have seen the film and can say it is a mess... Frankly, I think Criterion is releasing it because it is a 'modern' type film with a lot of past chatter and controversy. To keep my cynicism to a minimum, I believe people will buy it because it is an english language film and most do not question Criterions confidence. Criterion knows it will sell because of the 'C' on the cover art, but that's my opinion...

[Beta Man]

I've "seen" it, but haven't stayed awake through it, does that count?

EDIT:

Keep it on the DL shhhhhhh.....

[jrsl76]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

Was there ever a version of Heaven's Gate that was considered moderately good, or is it still just a bit of movie trivia?

There are touches of greatness. It really feels like there is a great movie there, but ultimately it's very unfocused.

[HyperRealist]

not you Beta.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by jrsl76

There are touches of greatness.

Those must have been the parts I was asleep during.