The Criterion Collection

[BarnDoor]

'A true masterpiece of American cinema'? Dear me. I'll take a stab and say that the same person reviewed Salo. I'll also venture that if both weren't released by Criterion they wouldn't be getting those kinds of reviews for the film itself.

Rest assured only a true 'idiot' would think Heaven's Gate worthy of two stars, let alone five. It's utter tripe.

(For the record I love Salo but to interpret it as some kind of grand metaphor is laughable. It's mere exploitation, and if it was directed by, say, Deodato rather than Pasolini, everyone would call it such. I get the impression Pasolini had a wager with his friends that he could make essentially a 'trash' film and have it heralded as some kind of arthouse masterpiece).

[retablo]

Originally Posted by BarnDoor

'A true masterpiece of American cinema'? Dear me. I'll take a stab and say that the same person reviewed Salo. I'll also venture that if both weren't released by Criterion they wouldn't be getting those kinds of reviews for the film itself.

Rest assured only a true 'idiot' would think Heaven's Gate worthy of two stars, let alone five. It's utter tripe.

(For the record I love Salo but to interpret it as some kind of grand metaphor is laughable. It's mere exploitation, and if it was directed by, say, Deodato rather than Pasolini, everyone would call it such. I get the impression Pasolini had a wager with his friends that he could make essentially a 'trash' film and have it heralded as some kind of arthouse masterpiece).

Yeah, speaking of "utter tripe", it's no 13th Warrior... or 44 Inch Chest.. or Aftershock... or... I stopped looking at your collection.

You know what they say about opinions and certain anatomical body parts...

Perhaps you shouldn't get so worked up over someone else's opinion. And for the record, the restored film got raves at Venice.

[joie]

It would be an interesting film to see in order to see why it was considered an epic failure, but how much of this is a do-over? What changes were made in Criterion's version?

[joie]

Originally Posted by retablo

Yeah, speaking of "utter tripe", it's no 13th Warrior... or 44 Inch Chest.. or Aftershock... or... I stopped looking at your collection.

You know what they say about opinions and certain anatomical body parts...

Perhaps you shouldn't get so worked up over someone else's opinion. And for the record, the restored film got raves at Venice.

The review's statement, "Those who have spoken against Heaven's Gate or outright dismissed it as a grandiose failure must have their heads checked. Or admit that they are idiots." is an opinion, too.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by joie

The review's statement, "Those who have spoken against Heaven's Gate or outright dismissed it as a grandiose failure must have their heads checked. Or admit that they are idiots." is an opinion, too.

Yep, it is.

[BarnDoor]

Originally Posted by retablo

Yeah, speaking of "utter tripe", it's no 13th Warrior... or 44 Inch Chest.. or Aftershock... or... I stopped looking at your collection.

You know what they say about opinions and certain anatomical body parts...

Perhaps you shouldn't get so worked up over someone else's opinion. And for the record, the restored film got raves at Venice.

May I direct you to this part of the review:

Those who have spoken against Heaven's Gate or outright dismissed it as a grandiose failure must have their heads checked. Or admit that they are idiots.

Now this obviously went over your head, but I do get worked up when people who dislike a film are labelled 'idiots' who need their 'heads checked'. If you like the film then fine but don't try to make out that all those who don't are idiots incapable of understanding it. It just makes you look like a conceited snob.

Yeah I'm sorry my collection doesn't consist entirely of Criterion films, which are of course all masterpieces of world cinema. Apparently this doesn't entitle me to an opinion... Your collection is huge - almost twice as big as mine - and full of shit. What the hell is your point? I could stop at the first two titles. Are you telling me ALL 1092 Blu-rays you have are good films? Because I sure as hell couldn't say that about the 3000 DVDs and Blu-rays I have.

You are in absolutely no position to criticize 13th Warrior when you have all The Fast and the Furious films and I Love You, Man in your collection. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I get the impression you haven't even seen Heaven's Gate. This restored version is no different in terms of content. I'm not going to watch the Blu-ray and say: 'Remember all those huge problems I had with the film before? Well they've gone now because it looks so good'.

[deepbreathsanddeath]

Uh oh.
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...-here-meme.png
Couldn't resist :P

[deepbreathsanddeath]

Originally Posted by exolstice

It's always been like that. Their cancel functionality has never worked.

I was also having problems with my order the first day after I ordered my Criterions. I ended up cancelling a couple of them and by the morning they showed up as cancelled. It does say it can take up to 60 minutes if I remember correctly. It was late when I did it so I can't really remember.

The expected ship date didn't change but a couple days later I got a shipping confirmation. Again the expected shipping date was still December 11th but I just checked it and now they all say it was shipped on the 1st of november. Their cancel function worked for me first go, it just took a while to show up.

Pretty frustrating but ultimately it seemed Barnes and Noble are just slow, at least from my perspective.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by BarnDoor

Now this obviously went over your head, but I do get worked up when people who dislike a film are labelled 'idiots' who need their 'heads checked'. If you like the film then fine but don't try to make out that all those who don't are idiots incapable of understanding it. It just makes you look like a conceited snob.

Interesting comments.

Judging by what you have written, it is pretty obvious, to me, that you are not familiar with the original reviews/reactions the film generated. The most prominent of them (and I could cite various examples) are incredibly dismissive towards anyone who may happen to like the film. Heaven's Gate was buried by mainstream critics and, in my opinion, politics, even though it is not a political film, really.

And no, my love for this film has absolutely nothing to do with Criterion. I've shown and discussed it long before DVD came to exist.

Additionally, just a quick scan over what some of the most prominent reviewers have written about it immediately shows wild errors -- such as citing languages that are spoken in the film, nationalities, etc -- that are completely manufactured, to making poor assumptions about the intent of the film and its message that really have absolutely nothing to do with what the film is about.

To be honest with you, BarnDoor, I think that if some people had some integrity left, they would go back and re-write their reviews, but I believe that there is a pretty hefty political baggage to be carried there - and I really do not want to go into politics to point out exactly why Heaven's Gate was a target.

Sorry, we just happen to disagree.

I would also suggest that you do rent this Blu-ray and watch the film, because what you have written isn't correct -- the restored version does not just borrow the same content from the film's previous release.

Have a wonderful weekend

Pro-B

[octagon]

The real problem with cancellations isn't that their system is too slow...it's usually too damned fast. I've placed orders at 2am that went into 'shipping' status literally within minutes.

It doesn't matter how long it takes to actually ship, once the status changes they won't (they say can't) cancel it.

[thismightbezach]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

To be honest with you, BarnDoor, I think that if some people had some integrity left, they would go back and re-write their reviews, but I believe that there is a pretty hefty political baggage to be carried there - and I really do not want to go into politics to point out exactly why Heaven's Gate was a target.

I don't see how you can blame politics for the film's failure when people like Pauline Kael, Roger Ebert and Vincent Canby, all ardent liberals, trashed the film.

[ravenus]

Originally Posted by ElliesDad

Since I finally got off the fence and ordered "Red Desert" from Amazon three days ago, I'll pretty much have to interpret this as "...perhaps a bit pretentious and obtuse at one level, but it's nevertheless an awesome cinematic masterpiece overall?"

That description actually works. I have a low tolerance for abstract and pretentious sort of films and I didn't quite expect to like this one when a friend passed on his Image Ent DVD to me, but I found myself absorbed enough by the film to order the Criterion BD myself during this sale.

[BarnDoor]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Interesting comments.

Judging by what you have written, it is pretty obvious, to me, that you are not familiar with the original reviews/reactions the film generated. The most prominent of them (and I could cite various examples) are incredibly dismissive towards anyone who may happen to like the film. Heaven's Gate was buried by mainstream critics and, in my opinion, politics, even though it is not a political film, really.

And no, my love for this film has absolutely nothing to do with Criterion. I've shown and discussed it long before DVD came to exist.

Additionally, just a quick scan over what some of the most prominent reviewers have written about it immediately shows wild errors -- such as citing languages that are spoken in the film, nationalities, etc -- that are completely manufactured, to making poor assumptions about the intent of the film and its message that really have absolutely nothing to do with what the film is about.

To be honest with you, BarnDoor, I think that if some people had some integrity left, they would go back and re-write their reviews, but I believe that there is a pretty hefty political baggage to be carried there - and I really do not want to go into politics to point out exactly why Heaven's Gate was a target.

Sorry, we just happen to disagree.

I would also suggest that you do rent this Blu-ray and watch the film, because what you have written isn't correct -- the restored version does not just borrow the same content from the film's previous release.

Have a wonderful weekend

Pro-B

I'm not concerned with the previous reviews. I'm well aware of the critical history surrounding Heaven's Gate. I have my own opinion, and what I do resent is you calling people like me 'idiots' for not liking the film. Having the view 'I love this film, whoever doesn't is stupid' is entirely reasonable and incredibly naive.

Admittedly I haven't seen the 'restored' version, but are the differences really that substantial? My DVD is 219 minutes. The Blu-ray is 217 minutes. Has Cimino really made drastic alterations? I found this snippet:

Once he saw what was possible with digital technology, “those 30 years had a way of vanishing,” he said. Mr. Cimino made minor editorial changes, removing an intermission and trimming a few seconds here and there. The most striking difference is the vibrant color palette, especially obvious in the imposing landscapes. When he watched the previous MGM DVD, Mr. Cimino said, he was appalled to see “a horrific red mist over everything.”

Writer-director Michael Cimino was coaxed to revisit his film for a 2012 video release via The Criterion Collection and supervised a 2K transfer from the YCM separation negatives from which he noticeably changed the original look of the film from a subdued sepia to a more rich "Technicolor" appearance. He also made a number of revisions, including the removal of the intermission thus creating a straight cut, reversed a "pull out" shot to a "pull in" and made a number of other tweaks as well as a re-tweak of the soundtrack.

This does not suggest drastic edits, and having watched my DVD version only last year I have a well formed view of the film thank you very much. You have your own view of the film and that's fine but don't expect everyone to go changing their reviews to conform with your interpretation. It's clear from your superior tone you think this film beneath me and your opinion superior to mine. I guess I'll just have to discard my doctorate in history and bow to your eminently superior intellect as I couldn't possibly understand the intricacies of the unparalleled masterpiece that is Heaven's Gate.

You have a wonderful weekend yourself sir.

[mrjohnnyb]

I am planning on making my annual "indulgent" purchase at a Barnes and Noble Bookstore on November 13th (so that I can grab Pasolini's trilogy.)

My goal is to buy as much as I can on Criterion blu-ray for $400. Here is what I am planning:

1. Using my Barnes and Noble membership for 10% off.

2. I will be making my purchase in Delaware, where there is no sales tax.

3. I would like to use as many coupons as possible.

Okay, 1 and 2 are "no brainers," but I do need some help with number 3. I have been reading a lot of posts sounding off on the difficulty of cashing in the "$8 off of a $40 purchase" coupon and I don't understand why. Wouldn't I be eligible to use this coupon?

In addition, I have heard rumblings about another coupon coming out this week. Could somebody please give me information on this?

One more thing, does anybody know any other ways I could save even more money? That would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by mrjohnnyb

I am planning on making my annual "indulgent" purchase at a Barnes and Noble Bookstore on November 13th (so that I can grab Pasolini's trilogy.)

My goal is to buy as much as I can on Criterion blu-ray for $400. Here is what I am planning:

1. Using my Barnes and Noble membership for 10% off.

2. I will be making my purchase in Delaware, where there is no sales tax.

3. I would like to use as many coupons as possible.

Okay, 1 and 2 are "no brainers," but I do need some help with number 3. I have been reading a lot of posts sounding off on the difficulty of cashing in the "$8 off of a $40 purchase" coupon and I don't understand why. Wouldn't I be eligible to use this coupon?

In addition, I have heard rumblings about another coupon coming out this week. Could somebody please give me information on this?

One more thing, does anybody know any other ways I could save even more money? That would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

The cashier split the Criterions I was buying into three separate orders so that I could apply both the $8 / $40 and the $5 / $50 coupons on all three orders. Apparently you can't stack them, so YMMV.

I have not heard about any other coupons coming out this week, but I do know that some people received mystery coupons in their e-mails. Also, the buzz codes don't work anymore apparently either, so you can't get $5 / $15 off or whatever it was.

[drbikeshorts]

Originally Posted by Alex DeLarge

I've never seen any of these film either though I am a fan of Japanese cinema. I viddied a trailer for BODY SNATCHER on youtube and that was enough for me: must own! Now if only Criterion would release ULTRA Q on blu-ray with English subtitles!

I cannot recommend the Teshigahara box set enough. I've written essays on every film and though it's difficult to pick a personal favorite, I would give the slight edge to PITFALL. I would rate Teshigahara among the great visionary directors along with Oshima, Imamura, and Kurosawa. Hope this helps!

I'll give your essays a read this week

[drbikeshorts]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Heaven's Gate Blu-ray REVIEW

[drbikeshorts]

Originally Posted by retablo

Yeah, speaking of "utter tripe", it's no 13th Warrior... or 44 Inch Chest.. or Aftershock... or... I stopped looking at your collection.
...

Whoa! Let's just leave The 13th Warrior out of this discussion!
But the rest of what you've written is fine

[chris_sc77]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Heaven's Gate Blu-ray REVIEW





.

Less than an hour of special features , no commentary, and a $50 price tag??????
Ok Criterion. I am done with you. Charging obscene prices and giving us damn near nothing. I will put my money towards releases that give something of better value

[BohemianGraham]

Originally Posted by chris_sc77

Less than an hour of special features , no commentary, and a $50 price tag??????
Ok Criterion. I am done with you. Charging obscene prices and giving us damn near nothing. I will put my money towards releases that give something of better value

You missed the cheap pre-orders from B&N obviously. It was only 25 bucks a few days ago. Also, I'm pretty sure that you don't need it "now now" and will probably grab it in July, or wait to check out the trades thread on this forum, as I think a lot of people will be trading it due to the polarising reaction this film generates. Also, Amazon has it for 30 bucks right now: http://www.amazon.com/Heavens-Gate-C...eaven%27s+gate

Interesting, B&N jacked the price back up on Rashomon and Week End too, even though they're coming out during the sale. Good thing I got my orders in for them, and Brazil and Purple Noon.