The Criterion Collection

[Scottie]

I just finished watching "The Seventh Seal". It was a very good movie and one of the most unique ones that I have seen to date.

Chess is a game that requires a lot of time, patience, and strategy. As a result, I sort of feel like each character is Death's own chess piece and he can "knock each one down" whenever the timing is appropriate.

I think after watching it for a second and maybe even a third time, the film will settle better with me. There's a lot of subtle messages, I feel, and a strong connection between each character and their struggles with faith. I was dozing on and off during the street performance because I made the mistake of laying down on this comfy pillow on my couch and covering up (recipe for disaster!)

Overall, it was a pretty good movie. I can see how it doesn't settle well with everybody, but it definitely interested me. Hopefully somebody can help interpret it better for me and in greater detail (I see you Owl).

P.S. Bibi Andersson and Gunnel Lindblom are fine!

[drbikeshorts]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

If you really want a good laugh, watch Flash Gordon immediately after you watch The Seventh Seal, as to compare Max von Sydow's performances.

Max von Sydow as King Osric in Conan the Barbarian (1982): "There comes a time, thief, when the jewels cease to sparkle, when the gold loses its luster, when the throne room becomes a prison, and all that is left is a father's love for his child."

So great
Max von Sydow is one of those actors who is never bad in anything.

[Fellini912]

Originally Posted by iScottie

I just finished watching "The Seventh Seal". It was a very good movie and one of the most unique ones that I have seen to date.

Chess is a game that requires a lot of time, patience, and strategy. As a result, I sort of feel like each character is Death's own chess piece and he can "knock each one down" whenever the timing is appropriate.

I think after watching it for a second and maybe even a third time, the film will settle better with me. There's a lot of subtle messages, I feel, and a strong connection between each character and their struggles with faith. I was dozing on and off during the street performance because I made the mistake of laying down on this comfy pillow on my couch and covering up (recipe for disaster!)

Overall, it was a pretty good movie. I can see how it doesn't settle well with everybody, but it definitely interested me. Hopefully somebody can help interpret it better for me and in greater detail (I see you Owl).

P.S. Bibi Andersson and Gunnel Lindblom are fine!

The Seventh Seal is one of Bergman's greats (if not his greatest film). It opened the doors for international films in the states.

I love this film because there are many ideas that work well throughout the film with powerful images. The film has a strong connection with Cervantes' Don Quixote (maybe the best interpretation of the book), especially the structure of the story. The idealist knight and worldly squire are mirror images of Don Quixote and Sancho Panzas, but with a slight personality adjustment. The squire is more confident in his secular view towards life than the knights idealist view of the world. Bergman's knight is not delusional as Don Quixote (maybe due to a crusade he participated in). Death being personified helps build some of the metaphysical arguments throughout film.

[Show spoiler]Bergman also shows two perspective towards life that are completely opposites: the performing actors and the monks. There are many questions asked , a few answered in the film. At the end, most of the characters follow death. Like in reality all life leads to death. That brings me to the chess board analogy.

I have a different interpretation, iscottie, about death playing chess. There is an analogy mentioned in Don Quixote about death and a chessboard that is (not a direct quote):

at the end of the game all the chess pieces go into the same container (bag or box) which is analogous to death, the equalizer of life. It does not matter whether one is a king or a pawn, or what ones beliefs are, we all end up in the same place.

Great film, I can go on for hours with this film. One of my top three films of all time.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by Fellini912

The Seventh Seal is one of Bergman's greats (if not his greatest film). It opened the doors for international films in the states.

I love this film because there are many ideas that work well throughout the film with powerful images. The film has a strong connection with Cervantes' Don Quixote (maybe the best interpretation of the book), especially the structure of the story. The idealist knight and worldly squire are mirror images of Don Quixote and Sancho Panzas, but with a slight personality adjustment. The squire is more confident in his secular view towards life than the knights idealist view of the world. Bergman's knight is not delusional as Don Quixote (maybe due to a crusade he participated in). Death being personified helps build some of the metaphysical arguments throughout film.

[Show spoiler]Bergman also shows two perspective towards life that are completely opposites: the performing actors and the monks. There are many questions asked , a few answered in the film. At the end, most of the characters follow death. Like in reality all life leads to death. That brings me to the chess board analogy.

I have a different interpretation, iscottie, about death playing chess. There is an analogy mentioned in Don Quixote about death and a chessboard that is (not a direct quote):

at the end of the game all the chess pieces go into the same container (bag or box) which is analogous to death, the equalizer of life. It does not matter whether one is a king or a pawn, or what ones beliefs are, we all end up in the same place.

Great film, I can go on for hours with this film. One of my top three films of all time.

Thank you for giving me your interpretation of the film. That certainly sounds great and very interesting giving the connection to Don Quixote. We talked about it in high school, but we never read it, unfortunately.

If I get around to it, maybe I'll check it out.

[Abdrewes]

It's almost a cliche talking about The Seventh Seal, Film School 101 type of stuff. Sure, it's a great film that broke so much new cinematic ground, but Bergman's finest existential, pained & cold films are those in The Trilogy of Faith. A particular favorite is Winter Light. They deserve a place among the finest films of like: Ordet, Andrei Rublev, Last Temptation of Christ, Secret Sunshine, Three Colors: Blue, and Abel Ferrara's Bad Lieutenant.

[Fellini912]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

It's almost a cliche talking about The Seventh Seal, Film School 101 type of stuff. Sure, it's a great film that broke so much new cinematic ground, but Bergman's finest existential, pained & cold films are those in The Trilogy of Faith. A particular favorite is Winter Light. They deserve a place among the finest films of like: Ordet, Andrei Rublev, Last Temptation of Christ, Secret Sunshine, Three Colors: Blue, and Abel Ferrara's Bad Lieutenant.

Abdrewes, I agree that Bergman later developed much of ideas from the Seventh Seal in greater detail with "God Trilogy or Trilogy of Faith" (by the way it is not a trilogy according to Bergman). I do not agree with taking The Seventh Seal very lightly calling it a "FILM 101 type stuff". Being renewed, imitated and parodied so often does not make it "cliche".

There is a lot of depth in its arguments that can easily be placed in beginners Philosophy or Religious course. Religious to metaphysical arguments in the movie seem to dissuade you which is obvious from your superficial comment.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

It's almost a cliche talking about The Seventh Seal, Film School 101 type of stuff. Sure, it's a great film that broke so much new cinematic ground, but Bergman's finest existential, pained & cold films are those in The Trilogy of Faith. A particular favorite is Winter Light. They deserve a place among the finest films of like: Ordet, Andrei Rublev, Last Temptation of Christ, Secret Sunshine, Three Colors: Blue, and Abel Ferrara's Bad Lieutenant.

Yuck

[Jr7936]

a film i saw which isn't criterion but masters of cinema was the film the world from china
it's a very beautiful film but i don't know how much replay value it has, since it is about a chinese theme park

[ShellOilJunior]

Here's a heads-up for my fellow Audrey fans. This is currently on newsstands ($12.99):

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by Fellini912

Abdrewes, I agree that Bergman later developed much of ideas from the Seventh Seal in greater detail with "God Trilogy or Trilogy of Faith" (by the way it is not a trilogy according to Bergman). I do not agree with taking The Seventh Seal very lightly calling it a "FILM 101 type stuff". Being renewed, imitated and parodied so often does not make it "cliche".

There is a lot of depth in its arguments that can easily be placed in beginners Philosophy or Religious course. Religious to metaphysical arguments in the movie seem to dissuade you which is obvious from your superficial comment.

And yet...we see...throughout Bergman's films...the continual--
(Oh, wait, sorry, I've been binge-viewing The Story Of Film on Netflix; I don't usually praise foreign directors very slowly in whispery singsong Irish/Welsh accents. )

Me, I tend to not put as much depth in Bergman's "faith" movies that tell us it's all a bowl of pits: We know that Ingmar grew up in a near-medieval household of repressive Swedish Protestantism, which is tantamount, or worse, to growing up in a Catholic household and showing off all your childhood demons about that. At least Ken Russell and Luis Bunuel had excuses for lame schoolyard sniping, or at least thought they did at the time.
It's hard for any Protestant not born in Oslo to fully comprehend Ingmar's fearmongering about "The Church is here to scare us to our eventual deaths!", since, well, shoot me for having a normal, well-adjusted childhood, where nobody lashed the Fear Of God into me or locked me into woodsheds.
As a result, most people make the naive benefit-of-the-doubt mistake of trying to analyze Bergman as making some Deep Important Point about existentialism, and not just basically being a drama-king sympathy-hound Bill Maher with better B/W cinematography.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by iScottie

Yuck

Have you seen the others I mentioned? Its just as resonant because of the chances it takes and it's methodology.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by EricJ

And yet...we see...throughout Bergman's films...the continual--
(Oh, wait, sorry, I've been binge-viewing The Story Of Film on Netflix; I don't usually praise foreign directors very slowly in whispery singsong Irish/Welsh accents. )

Me, I tend to not put as much depth in Bergman's "faith" movies that tell us it's all a bowl of pits: We know that Ingmar grew up in a near-medieval household of repressive Swedish Protestantism, which is tantamount, or worse, to growing up in a Catholic household and showing off all your childhood demons about that. At least Ken Russell and Luis Bunuel had excuses for lame schoolyard sniping, or at least thought they did at the time.
It's hard for any Protestant not born in Oslo to fully comprehend Ingmar's fearmongering about "The Church is here to scare us to our eventual deaths!", since, well, shoot me for having a normal, well-adjusted childhood, where nobody lashed the Fear Of God into me or locked me into woodsheds.
As a result, most people make the naive benefit-of-the-doubt mistake of trying to analyze Bergman as making some Deep Important Point about existentialism, and not just basically being a drama-king sympathy-hound Bill Maher with better B/W cinematography.

Until I saw Winter Light, I would agree with you. Yes, sometimes a Bergman film lacks believability because they feel like attempts to validate his world view. Then I saw Winter Light, It's a work that isn't drenched in the typical in cynicism & despair. Bergman isn't playing God with the characters, but rather he's actually empathizing with them. The priests search for spiritual answers is his his own.

[drbikeshorts]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Our review will be up today. I mentioned this multiple times elsewhere on the forum last year, but this was the best film I saw in 2012. No competition. And AE's presentation is top notch.
Pro-B

So it looks like there will be no need to choose between the UK and the US editions of Holy Motors. The US edition is apparently a single-layered blu-ray with lossless audio.
Artificial Eye FTW
Just one more reason to be region-free

[drbikeshorts]

Originally Posted by iScottie

Yuck

Whoa!
No love for Bad Lieutenant?
One of my favourite films of the 90s.
I even have the poster. Unfortunately, it's only the "half torso" version, not the full version. Still looks awesome.
I admit, it's probably not for all tastes and it's probably not a very good "date" movie
And just to keep this conversation off-topic - where's Abel Ferrara's The Funeral? I've also got the poster for that

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by Abdrewes

Have you seen the others I mentioned? Its just as resonant because of the chances it takes and it's methodology.

I've seen a couple of those (TLOTC and I was watching some of Blue last night but it got too late).

Originally Posted by drbikeshorts

Whoa!
No love for Bad Lieutenant?
One of my favourite films of the 90s.
I even have the poster. Unfortunately, it's only the "half torso" version, not the full version. Still looks awesome.
I admit, it's probably not for all tastes and it's probably not a very good "date" movie
And just to keep this conversation off-topic - where's Abel Ferrara's The Funeral? I've also got the poster for that

I don't think that I've ever hated a film as much as Bad Lieutenant. I watched it last spring or summer, I'm not quite sure when. All I know is that it was the stupidest, boringest film, that I've ever seen, in my opinion. I was actually counting down the time on my player until it was over.

I'm sure a lot of people like it for the places that it went, but it didn't do it for me at all.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by iScottie

I've seen a couple of those (TLOTC and I was watching some of Blue last night but it got too late).



I don't think that I've ever hated a film as much as Bad Lieutenant. I watched it last spring or summer, I'm not quite sure when. All I know is that it was the stupidest, boringest film, that I've ever seen, in my opinion. I was actually counting down the time on my player until it was over.

I'm sure a lot of people like it for the places that it went, but it didn't do it for me at all.

There's at least two people here who strongly disagree. Its a great character study and a moving meditation on forgiveness and faith once you get past the shock factor.

Although some of his recent reviews are a bit phoned in, Ebert's review of the film points out everything that makes the film so great: I strongly suggest reading it

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/...301220301/1023

[The Great Owl]

I've never seen Abel Ferrara's Bad Lieutenant, but I have seen Werner Herzog's Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call, New Orleans, which is supposedly a reinterpretation of sorts.

The Herzog movie is not for everyone, but I dug it. It's the perfect vehicle for Nicolas Cage's mannerisms and twisted expressionism, and the New Orleans setting is a revelation for the purposes of the story.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I've never seen Abel Ferrara's Bad Lieutenant, but I have seen Werner Herzog's Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call, New Orleans, which is supposedly a reinterpretation of sorts.

The Herzog movie is not for everyone, but I dug it. It's the perfect vehicle for Nicolas Cage's mannerisms and twisted expressionism, and the New Orleans setting is a revelation for the purposes of the story.

I need to revisit them packaged as a double feature. It's definitely one of Cage's best alongside Leaving Las Vegas, Wild at Heart, Adaptation and Bringing Out the Dead.

[The Great Owl]

Like many other peeps in the Blu-ray.com forum, I watched Skyfall last night. I dare say that Skyfall has dethroned Terrence Malick's The Thin Red Line and The Tree of Life for the best picture quality of any Blu-ray in my collection.

I post this here, because, during last night's viewing, I enjoyed how Skyfall pays homage to quite a few movies on the Criterion lineup. One pivotal scene in Skyfall is a fun nod to the sewer chase in The Third Man. The climax of Skyfall reminded me of Straw Dogs in many ways.

More than anything, though, Skyfall makes me think about Akira Kurosawa's Stray Dog, because of the character foils of James Bond and Silva. In Stray Dog, the police officer is presented as a character whose morality is unwavering, while the gun thief is presented as a character who allows circumstances to shape his morals. We see this again in Skyfall, since James Bond and Silva are characters with identical backgrounds just like the characters in Stray Dog. I won't go so far as to say that Sam Mendes had Stray Dog in mind, because this is a well-used character foil scenario, but I did find myself thinking of the Kurosawa film.

It goes without saying that Skyfall also made me think of Jean-Pierre Melville's films.

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

Like many other peeps in the Blu-ray.com forum, I watched Skyfall last night. I dare say that Skyfall has dethroned Terrence Malick's The Thin Red Line and The Tree of Life for the best picture quality of any Blu-ray in my collection.

I post this here, because, during last night's viewing, I enjoyed how Skyfall pays homage to quite a few movies on the Criterion lineup. One pivotal scene in Skyfall is a fun nod to the sewer chase in The Third Man. The climax of Skyfall reminded me of Straw Dogs in many ways.

More than anything, though, Skyfall makes me think about Akira Kurosawa's Stray Dog, because of the character foils of James Bond and Silva. In Stray Dog, the police officer is presented as a character whose morality is unwavering, while the gun thief is presented as a character who allows circumstances to shape his morals. We see this again in Skyfall, since James Bond and Silva are characters with identical backgrounds just like the characters in Stray Dog. I won't go so far as to say that Sam Mendes had Stray Dog in mind, because this is a well-used character foil scenario, but I did find myself thinking of the Kurosawa film.

It goes without saying that Skyfall also made me think of Jean-Pierre Melville's films.

Impossible.