The Criterion Collection

[SimBelm]

Originally Posted by onetet

Wow, this looks like a great resource! Thanks for posting.

It's like a treasure chest of forgotten cinema. Unfortunately some of the films have excessive print damage and burnt in subs, but the quality of the films transcend that, the other night I was utterly blown away by Kim's Woman of Fire, an insane melodrama that's just soaked to the brim in candy colours.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by mrjohnnyb

Hey Owl,

A little too much 4-1-1, if you know what I mean!

I was totally exaggerating, but Niagara really is a good eye candy movie. Even better than that, it's an awesome color film noir.

[The Great Owl]

I just watched Sands of the Kalahari. This is a great 1960s adventure flick that I've been wanting to see for decades, and I'm not disappointed. It's not far removed from the 1963 version of Lord of the Flies, but there are some additional dynamics thrown into the fold that I enjoyed.

I'm all caught up on my unwatched Blu-rays, except for the last two and half seasons of The Twilight Zone.
Tonight, though, I'm thinking about revisiting The Thin Red Line Criterion Blu-ray just for fun.

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I just watched Sands of the Kalahari. This is a great 1960s adventure flick that I've been wanting to see for decades, and I'm not disappointed. It's not far removed from the 1963 version of Lord of the Flies, but there are some additional dynamics thrown into the fold that I enjoyed.

I'm all caught up on my unwatched Blu-rays, except for the last two and half seasons of The Twilight Zone.
Tonight, though, I'm thinking about revisiting The Thin Red Line Criterion Blu-ray just for fun.

Another one, desert wise, I'd like to see again is Station-Six Sahara with Carroll Baker driving guys crazy. Also, the original Flight of the Phoenix needs a upgrade.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by hoytereden

Also, the original Flight of the Phoenix needs a upgrade.

Amen to that! My review of Sands of the Kalahari name drops that film, but also mentions the Twilight Zone episode, "I Shot an Arrow Into the Air." I've never seen Station-Six Sahara, so I'll have to go investigating.

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

Amen to that! My review of Sands of the Kalahari name drops that film, but also mentions the Twilight Zone episode, "I Shot an Arrow Into the Air." I've never seen Station-Six Sahara, so I'll have to go investigating.

Or the Season 2 episode "King Nine Will Not Return" another desert themed TZ. Darn! Now you've got me wanting to watch TZ!

[jw007]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Well, as I've said in a previous reply, I bought my first player in Jan 1988. Along with the player, I bought my first 3 LDs: The Philadelphia Story, and p&s editions (almost no one other than Criterion was letterboxing at that point) of Halloween and For Your Eyes Only. I eventually replaced all three with improved editions. The earliest LD purchase I still have in my collection is the Criterion CAV edition of Blade Runner, which I bought in Feb 1988. So I've been collecting for a while. According to my LD purchase file, the last LDs I've bought were in early 2005 from eBay, with the last one being the Image/Turner Astaire/Rogers Collection boxed set in Mar 2005.

So, 17 years first to last. Given how many I currently have, and the fact that there have been several others that had bought along the way, and later sold or traded in, I'd guess that I averaged two LDs a week over the time I was collecting. It helped that I lived in the Boston area, and for most of the time I was collecting, there were as many as three major dedicated LD stores, and at least a dozen other video stores and whatnot that sold and/or rented LDs.

A significant percentage of the LDs I bought after adopting DVD were of "Golden Age of Hollywood" films, because (a) that was a focus of my cinematic interests, and (b) such films were for the most part slow in coming on DVD. While some of the studios were slowly putting out their vintage titles on DVD in the early 00s, it wasn't until 2004-2005 that the floodgates opened.

Which is probably one of the reasons I stopped buying LDs then, as I was spending the money on things like the various Warner DVD boxed sets.

It must make it difficult trying to sell these LDs now if you tried to because the market is virtually non-existent for these now. I am guessing you plan on just keeping these indefinitely unless you had to remove them from your life due to storage space issues. It makes me wonder if something like this will happen to me when it comes to Blu-rays. Am I going to keep collecting these once a newer format comes out? I am always thinking about how long a current format is going to last (and that always is a concern because no format can stand the test of time due to constant technological improvements). However, sometimes its not the technology that matters but the substance itself (the content or the film). As long as it still plays or runs and you have the equipment, there is no need to "want" a better, improved, sharper version of a film. For me, it will be difficult upgrading from Blu-ray to the next format, but maybe that won't happen for at least another decade or so.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by jw007

For me, it will be difficult upgrading from Blu-ray to the next format, but maybe that won't happen for at least another decade or so.

This subject tends to get run into the ground on Blu-ray.com, but...

I know that it's just a matter of time before we see the next physical media format, whether it be 4K discs or something else of the sort.

The big question, in my mind, is how feasible the next physical medium will be in terms of enjoying cinema to the utmost extent with all of our favorite movies.

I can imagine the "big classics", like Jaws, The Godfather, Gone with the Wind, and other such movies being released in 4K formats.
However...
Will studios bother upgrading movies like Letter Never Sent, Westworld, Things to Come, John Carpenter's Assault on Precinct 13, City Slickers, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Sands of the Kalahari, Wings of Desire, Walkabout, Rapture, Experiment in Terror, The Driver, Two-Lane Blacktop, Swamp Thing, or Flash Gordon?
Will studios like Scream Factory and Shout Factory be releasing 4K discs of endearingly obscure films just as they are releasing them on Blu-ray now?

Given all of the current struggles to bring movies up to par with the expectations of Blu-ray viewers (The Earrings of Madam de..., Le Samourai, etc.), I'm hard-pressed to imagine the same effort being given to putting these movies through the grind for a higher-resolution physical medium.

Since I only started collecting Blu-rays in 2012, I don't like thinking about the next format, so a lot of my above musings may be self-serving. I don't see a widespread popularity of another medium for a good decade or so, though.

I just revisited The Thin Red Line on Blu-ray tonight. The only way I can see possibly to improve on the Blu-ray is for me to have a 100'' television screen or a wall projector if this particular film ever rolls around on a 4K disc.

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

This subject tends to get run into the ground on Blu-ray.com, but...

I know that it's just a matter of time before we see the next physical media format, whether it be 4K discs or something else of the sort.

The big question, in my mind, is how feasible the next physical medium will be in terms of enjoying cinema to the utmost extent with all of our favorite movies.

I can imagine the "big classics", like Jaws, The Godfather, Gone with the Wind, and other such movies being released in 4K formats.
However...
Will studios bother upgrading movies like Letter Never Sent, Westworld, Things to Come, John Carpenter's Assault on Precinct 13, City Slickers, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Sands of the Kalahari, Wings of Desire, Walkabout, Rapture, Experiment in Terror, The Driver, Two-Lane Blacktop, Swamp Thing, or Flash Gordon?
Will studios like Scream Factory and Shout Factory be releasing 4K discs of endearingly obscure films just as they are releasing them on Blu-ray now?

Given all of the current struggles to bring movies up to par with the expectations of Blu-ray viewers (The Earrings of Madam de..., Le Samourai, etc.), I'm hard-pressed to imagine the same effort being given to putting these movies through the grind for a higher-resolution physical medium.

Since I only started collecting Blu-rays in 2012, I don't like thinking about the next format, so a lot of my above musings may be self-serving. I don't see a widespread popularity of another medium for a good decade or so, though.

I just revisited The Thin Red Line on Blu-ray tonight. The only way I can see possibly to improve on the Blu-ray is for me to have a 100'' television screen or a wall projector if this particular film ever rolls around on a 4K disc.

It makes my head (and wallet) hurt to think of the different formats I've invested in starting with Super 8mm film (and some 16mm) from there to VHS, Beta, LD, DVD, and Blu. Personally, I'm getting to the age when I just don't know if I've got the interest to invest, once more, when a new format emerges. I've been fortunate to have gone from an era when there were a max of 4 or 5 channels, B&W TVs, no recording devices to the plethora of choices and instant availability we have today.

[deepbreathsanddeath]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

This subject tends to get run into the ground on Blu-ray.com, but...

I know that it's just a matter of time before we see the next physical media format, whether it be 4K discs or something else of the sort.

The big question, in my mind, is how feasible the next physical medium will be in terms of enjoying cinema to the utmost extent with all of our favorite movies.

I can imagine the "big classics", like Jaws, The Godfather, Gone with the Wind, and other such movies being released in 4K formats.
However...
Will studios bother upgrading movies like Letter Never Sent, Westworld, Things to Come, John Carpenter's Assault on Precinct 13, City Slickers, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Sands of the Kalahari, Wings of Desire, Walkabout, Rapture, Experiment in Terror, The Driver, Two-Lane Blacktop, Swamp Thing, or Flash Gordon?
Will studios like Scream Factory and Shout Factory be releasing 4K discs of endearingly obscure films just as they are releasing them on Blu-ray now?

Given all of the current struggles to bring movies up to par with the expectations of Blu-ray viewers (The Earrings of Madam de..., Le Samourai, etc.), I'm hard-pressed to imagine the same effort being given to putting these movies through the grind for a higher-resolution physical medium.

Since I only started collecting Blu-rays in 2012, I don't like thinking about the next format, so a lot of my above musings may be self-serving. I don't see a widespread popularity of another medium for a good decade or so, though.

I just revisited The Thin Red Line on Blu-ray tonight. The only way I can see possibly to improve on the Blu-ray is for me to have a 100'' television screen or a wall projector if this particular film ever rolls around on a 4K disc.

Some nice food for thought there owl. I hate thinking about what's going to come next but honestly, I think blu-ray MIGHT just be the last proper physical format... Physical media isn't nearly as popular as it once was, most people just download now and watch stuff on their laptop or phone and honestly... Does anyone (including Sony) really believe 4K is going to take off? They shot themselves in the foot from the get go by making them barebones. People who buy physical media tend to give a crap about special features.

I don't think BD is going to be the last format or the last actual physical format but I have a strong feeling its going to be the last physical format a good deal of the general public are going to invest in for at least another decade and by that point the interest in physical media will be even lower. Streaming and digital downloads seem to be the future. 4K and some other formats will probably just come and go despite how good they might be.

Blu-ray is a great format and like Owl said, I can't imagine any of these niche studios are going to even think twice about possibly re-releasing their obscure titles that already look good in yet another format. I think blu-ray is here to stay until streaming eventually kicks it out.

[lemonski]

Originally Posted by deepbreathsanddeath

I think blu-ray is here to stay until streaming eventually kicks it out.

See, I don't get why one has to necessarily replace the other. Until you have great enough bandwidth for *everybody* (and not just in the U.S. either), and until they're delivering the same picture quality, audio quality and extras along that pipe, with a big enough selection -on demand -, there will always be a segment of the market that says - you know what, that isn't good enough for me, I want a physical disc because the quality is better. And it might not come from Sony, Warner, and Paramount - it might be from Olive, Twilight Time, or Shout Factory, and the cost of a disc might be much higher than it is now; as long as there is money to be made, even if it is a niche market, someone will want to exploit it.

The other way to look at it - why would studios just completely give up on a revenue stream (physical media)? Why have one stream when you can have two?

/

[MattvonSyborg]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I just revisited The Thin Red Line on Blu-ray tonight. The only way I can see possibly to improve on the Blu-ray is for me to have a 100'' television screen or a wall projector if this particular film ever rolls around on a 4K disc.

This is how I feel about 4K. It'll be for people with serious home cinemas, whereas for someone like me, who has a 46" TV and a love for film but lives in a small apartment, the upgrade from dvd to bd is noticeable but going beyond that? I'm not sure.

I just received some of the criterions I got from amazon when they dropped their prices to 19.99 - watched Repo Man this friday and yeah, I just don't have any need for better quality than that. It looks fantastic. And the package just shows why there's something special about physical media done right.

[MattvonSyborg]

Originally Posted by lemonski

See, I don't get why one has to necessarily replace the other. Until you have great enough bandwidth for *everybody* (and not just in the U.S. either), and until they're delivering the same picture quality, audio quality and extras along that pipe, with a big enough selection -on demand -, there will always be a segment of the market that says - you know what, that isn't good enough for me, I want a physical disc because the quality is better. And it might not come from Sony, Warner, and Paramount - it might be from Olive, Twilight Time, or Shout Factory, and the cost of a disc might be much higher than it is now; as long as there is money to be made, even if it is a niche market, someone will want to exploit it.

The other way to look at it - why would studios just completely give up on a revenue stream (physical media)? Why have one stream when you can have two?

/

I think this is the way it'll go too. Think of music - there's no technical limitations holding back sound quality that's even better than cd quality, but most people don't even need that. They'll just get mp3s or stream audio. In Sweden, Spotify completely dominates the market. It's just convenient, and the average consumer doesn't have a hifi setup. Still, cds and vinyl sales will probably never drop to zero, at least vinyl will always be around as a niche I think. And the same goes for BD or a future 4K format (hopefully compatible with BD, or at least, players will be able to play both).

[jw007]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

This subject tends to get run into the ground on Blu-ray.com, but...

I know that it's just a matter of time before we see the next physical media format, whether it be 4K discs or something else of the sort.

The big question, in my mind, is how feasible the next physical medium will be in terms of enjoying cinema to the utmost extent with all of our favorite movies.

I can imagine the "big classics", like Jaws, The Godfather, Gone with the Wind, and other such movies being released in 4K formats.
However...
Will studios bother upgrading movies like Letter Never Sent, Westworld, Things to Come, John Carpenter's Assault on Precinct 13, City Slickers, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Sands of the Kalahari, Wings of Desire, Walkabout, Rapture, Experiment in Terror, The Driver, Two-Lane Blacktop, Swamp Thing, or Flash Gordon?
Will studios like Scream Factory and Shout Factory be releasing 4K discs of endearingly obscure films just as they are releasing them on Blu-ray now?

Given all of the current struggles to bring movies up to par with the expectations of Blu-ray viewers (The Earrings of Madam de..., Le Samourai, etc.), I'm hard-pressed to imagine the same effort being given to putting these movies through the grind for a higher-resolution physical medium.

Since I only started collecting Blu-rays in 2012, I don't like thinking about the next format, so a lot of my above musings may be self-serving. I don't see a widespread popularity of another medium for a good decade or so, though.

I just revisited The Thin Red Line on Blu-ray tonight. The only way I can see possibly to improve on the Blu-ray is for me to have a 100'' television screen or a wall projector if this particular film ever rolls around on a 4K disc.

Originally Posted by deepbreathsanddeath

Some nice food for thought there owl. I hate thinking about what's going to come next but honestly, I think blu-ray MIGHT just be the last proper physical format... Physical media isn't nearly as popular as it once was, most people just download now and watch stuff on their laptop or phone and honestly... Does anyone (including Sony) really believe 4K is going to take off? They shot themselves in the foot from the get go by making them barebones. People who buy physical media tend to give a crap about special features.

I don't think BD is going to be the last format or the last actual physical format but I have a strong feeling its going to be the last physical format a good deal of the general public are going to invest in for at least another decade and by that point the interest in physical media will be even lower. Streaming and digital downloads seem to be the future. 4K and some other formats will probably just come and go despite how good they might be.

Blu-ray is a great format and like Owl said, I can't imagine any of these niche studios are going to even think twice about possibly re-releasing their obscure titles that already look good in yet another format. I think blu-ray is here to stay until streaming eventually kicks it out.

Both of these postings make me think more and more about the future of film viewing.

I never really thought long and hard about Blu-ray being possibly the last investable physical format for movies and media. It makes complete and perfect sense though that just like CDs are no longer popular anymore for music consumers, nor will any physical media for entertainment/movies be as well. Music has totally gone digital into MP3, M4A and AC3 formats but now its beyond that, into FLAC format (or otherwise known as lossless format). Movies can be downloaded into iTunes and watched on our computers in MP4 format. Yet, what CAN be beyond digital? I can only think of Holographic format! I can only think that what is truly next, after digital and Blu-ray is a format that no longer uses a flat screen to watch a film on. The film would be self-projecting or self-revolving and be projected/shot into a medium of true three dimensional viewing. Think of it as a 3D printer instead of a flat 2D printer. Films will be revolutionized in a way where we are sitting in the middle of the film and all around us will be the movie, projecting in a 360 degree environment or some sort of 360 degree container/room of some sort (like an "Omnimax" theater or dome, but that is only 180 degrees). Imagine an environment where this digital medium can be projected into a "dome shaped" experience by using a warped or flexible screen that can be wrapped partially around us (maybe not 360 degrees but 180 to 270 degrees). This digital projection of a holographically converted film would be phenomenal then. Then of course there wouldn't need to be a screen at all, but the light itself will shape and form in the air and create the holograms themselves, taken directly from the original film negatives. This sort of technology may be around in 40-60 years from now.

In any case, I think I went off on a major tangent.

As long as Criterions are still around and in HO (holographic) format, I'll be pretty happy.

[MattvonSyborg]

Originally Posted by jw007

Both of these postings make me think more and more about the future of film viewing.

I never really thought long and hard about Blu-ray being possibly the last investable physical format for movies and media. It makes complete and perfect sense though that just like CDs are no longer popular anymore for music consumers, nor will any physical media for entertainment/movies be as well. Music has totally gone digital into MP3, M4A and AC3 formats but now its beyond that, into FLAC format (or otherwise known as lossless format). Movies can be downloaded into iTunes and watched on our computers in MP4 format.

With the music analogy, it's also interesting to note that no digital format with better quality than cd has ever taken off - they've been stuck on the level of success Blu Ray/HD-DVD had the first years. Strictly for enthusiasts. That segment of the market uses cd, vinyl or flac files now, while the average consumer doesn't need better quality than mp3s or streaming. And on that note, I definitely think that Netflix streaming, for example, has much better quality than the average consumer needs. I'd guess that the "cap" is around 720p, but who knows.

I think it's interesting that Criterion made the move to Dual Format. I wonder how long it'll be before DVD truly is dead.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by deepbreathsanddeath

Some nice food for thought there owl. I hate thinking about what's going to come next but honestly, I think blu-ray MIGHT just be the last proper physical format... Physical media isn't nearly as popular as it once was, most people just download now and watch stuff on their laptop or phone and honestly... Does anyone (including Sony) really believe 4K is going to take off? They shot themselves in the foot from the get go by making them barebones. People who buy physical media tend to give a crap about special features.

I don't think BD is going to be the last format or the last actual physical format but I have a strong feeling its going to be the last physical format a good deal of the general public are going to invest in for at least another decade and by that point the interest in physical media will be even lower. Streaming and digital downloads seem to be the future. 4K and some other formats will probably just come and go despite how good they might be.

Blu-ray is a great format and like Owl said, I can't imagine any of these niche studios are going to even think twice about possibly re-releasing their obscure titles that already look good in yet another format. I think blu-ray is here to stay until streaming eventually kicks it out.

Blu-ray is here to stay, and you can bookmark my post for future reference

As lemonski has mentioned already, the future of the home video market will not be one or the other - which is a concept a lot of the so called pundits that love to publish their predictions to generate traffic cannot seem to comprehend.

The home video field will be one of numerous options for the consumer and revenue streams for the studios. This idea that there is a new future where everyone will suddenly drop buying physical media and start buying downloads is as naive as the idea some people had in their heads a few years ago that email will replace traditional mail.

Pro-B

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by jw007

It makes complete and perfect sense though that just like CDs are no longer popular anymore for music consumers, nor will any physical media for entertainment/movies be as well.

Where are you getting this info from?

Not only are CDs still very popular, but vinyl sales are also up.

The fluctuations on the market go both ways - for digital and physical media. In fact, I have been following the market very closely for a number of years now and at this point I feel pretty confident that the music industry's weakness has very little to do with the introduction of digital purchase options and pretty much everything to do with the fact that the overall quality of the music content the studios wish to sell is between average to very poor:

http://www.hitfix.com/news/us-album-...ch-record-lows

As you know, album sales have been plummeting since 2000. While many in the industry tried to convince themselves that digital sales would make up for the falling physical sales, these numbers are sad proof that this is not the case. As CD sales continue to decline (sales are down 14.1 % so far in 2013 over 2012), digital sales are also slowing. In the Q1 2013, digital sales were up 10.4%, but that figure slowed to 1.9% for the second quarter.

For your information, digital full-length sales comprise only 43% of the total market, so to speculate that CDs are somehow no longer popular is pretty strange.

http://www.spin.com/articles/music-s...ital-album-cd/

Pro-B

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by hoytereden

It makes my head (and wallet) hurt to think of the different formats I've invested in starting with Super 8mm film (and some 16mm) from there to VHS, Beta, LD, DVD, and Blu.

Don't you just wish you could project your mind back into the person you were 30 years ago so that you avoid paying good money for those pan-&-scan videotapes?

Personally, I'm getting to the age when I just don't know if I've got the interest to invest, once more, when a new format emerges. I've been fortunate to have gone from an era when there were a max of 4 or 5 channels, B&W TVs, no recording devices to the plethora of choices and instant availability we have today.

That's pretty much where I'm at now, too. I think Blu-ray is going to be it for me, unless I win Powerball.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by lemonski

See, I don't get why one has to necessarily replace the other. Until you have great enough bandwidth for *everybody* (and not just in the U.S. either), and until they're delivering the same picture quality, audio quality and extras along that pipe, with a big enough selection -on demand -, there will always be a segment of the market that says - you know what, that isn't good enough for me, I want a physical disc because the quality is better.

Bandwidth is the big issue. And as long as providers like Comcast want to invoke bandwidth caps while encouraging their customers to stream to their hearts content (so they convince them to go up to a higher level of service for more money, natch) it's going to stay an issue. Plus the interruptions in service. I do some streaming from Netflix and Amazon Prime, and it pisses me off when I'm part-way through a movie, and I get disconnected from the site, or it hoses, tries to load again, and get a "We're having problems with this title. Try again later, or try a different title." Now, sometimes this is undoubtedly a site issue, and sometimes an ISP issue, but it really doesn't matter because the bottom line is that I'm having a problem playing the movie, and it happens pretty much every damn time. That doesn't happen with a physical media format.

[Mr. Thomsen]

Originally Posted by lemonski

The other way to look at it - why would studios just completely give up on a revenue stream (physical media)? Why have one stream when you can have two?

/

They did it on laserdisc, where small companies thrived (for a time) because the majors couldn't be bothered.

And some are (sort of) doing it now, licensing out their titles because releasing them themselves is too much of a hassle (to them) for too little profit. That's why we are starting to see companies like Twilight Time and Olive.

I have no clue whether BD will be the last physical format, but I would not be surprised if it turned out so. There doesn't appear to be any new physical 4K home video format in the works (the work on DVD was well-known years before it was finally released to the public). And those companies who do support 4K, seem to either focus on upscaling of BD, or native 4K delivered in other ways (like Sony's proposed entertainment center that supposedly will include a number of 4K movies on the HDD).

The major obstacle for 4K is probably that you need a pretty large screen to take advantage of it, and that to most ordinary people (that is people who are not members here) DVD still appears to be just fine. If non-enthusiasts are hard to persuade to upgrade to BD because they don't see any advantage, then imagine the trouble having to sell them even larger and more expensive screens and players.

Personally, I think BD will eventually go the way of the laserdisc - primarily an enthusiast format (albeit more popular than LD ever was), that will be supplemented by mainstream streaming solutions. I don't see a physical 4K standard on the horizon.