The Criterion Collection

[The Great Owl]

I should perhaps check out this Twin Peaks show someday. I'll wait until the price drops, though.

[Polaroid]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

thank you Fellini912, Octagon, atlantajoseph!

I figured that my post from the other night would bring out the Lynch defenders in droves. Fellini is right - it is an argument for practicality. ..and octagon is right, too - keep your nose out of my living room, David Lynch.

I agree that it is nice that he expresses some interest in matters that will enhance our viewing experience. but, people are going to pause movies or stop and resume them later regardless of whether or not DL permits the inclusion of chapter stops. 2 posters who sided with Lynch over these last few pages admitted as much. why not approach it like Martin Scorsese did with widescreen? he educated people. he didn't record angry sounding rants and post them online. how can you argue that he is not condescending to those who do not consume media in the way he wishes when he ends his iPhone video with, "you think you've seen a film on your f**king telephone. get real." ?

I like, also, how people look past the two instances of hypocrisy that I cited.
JoeBuck - the Twin Peaks TV series aired on ABC in all it's commercial filled glory. arguing that "that's just the way it is because advertising pays for the program to air" doesn't provide much justification.

sure, advertisers pay for the program to air, but to expand upon what Fellini912 said, we pay our hard earned money to own the films on home video. by your logic, that should be enough justification to consume the media in any way we see fit - even if it is "on a f**king iPhone."

I doubt Lynch means anything by it tbh - as I said before he just wants his work presented in th best way possible - he obviously isn't aiming the message at everyone, but there are many people who don't know about calibration or w/e

I really don't mind if a director advises us on who to get in the mood of his./her work - plus it is optional - just ignore it

Luckily you don't get it with Criterions but on most normal releases you are wanted and advised about piracy/sharing etc which in a way is what Lynch was doing, advising the viewer on so and so - people now ignore the piracy warning etc, some read it

Just enjoy the film how you want and ignore if people they tell you to enjoy another way - some may appreciate the message, I think Criterion handles it better in regards to calibration by putting the colour bar son every disc, but they don't tell you to do it, maybe it should have been an optional note in special features? 'Note on setting up film' or w/e :P

In regards to Lynches rant on the iPhone it is true, it is hard to enjoy a film and get the most out of it - but it did bug me that Lynch didn't take into consideration people who travel or can't access bigger screen at the time.

I managed to convince sister to watch Antichrist, but she watched on her iPhone at a train station (whilst traveling) and she found it hard to enjoy, 1) subject matter but 2) you can;t appreciate the sounds and the visuals as much on such a small screen - reminds me I need to convince her to watch on big screen :P

he's 50% right and 50% wrong .

Oh - another amazing thing, we BUY criterion and when you put on it goes straight to film/title - BLISS, I hate when you buy a standard film and it has 5+ trailers and even advert sat beginning, sometimes unstoppable - frustrates me!!! lol

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by Polaroid

I doubt Lynch means anything by it tbh - as I said before he just wants his work presented in th best way possible - he obviously isn't aiming the message at everyone, but there are many people who don't know about calibration or w/e

[Show spoiler]
I really don't mind if a director advises us on who to get in the mood of his./her work - plus it is optional - just ignore it

Luckily you don't get it with Criterions but on most normal releases you are wanted and advised about piracy/sharing etc which in a way is what Lynch was doing, advising the viewer on so and so - people now ignore the piracy warning etc, some read it

Just enjoy the film how you want and ignore if people they tell you to enjoy another way - some may appreciate the message, I think Criterion handles it better in regards to calibration by putting the colour bar son every disc, but they don't tell you to do it, maybe it should have been an optional note in special features? 'Note on setting up film' or w/e :P

In regards to Lynches rant on the iPhone it is true, it is hard to enjoy a film and get the most out of it - but it did bug me that Lynch didn't take into consideration people who travel or can't access bigger screen at the time.

I managed to convince sister to watch Antichrist, but she watched on her iPhone at a train station (whilst traveling) and she found it hard to enjoy, 1) subject matter but 2) you can;t appreciate the sounds and the visuals as much on such a small screen - reminds me I need to convince her to watch on big screen :P

he's 50% right and 50% wrong .

Oh - another amazing thing, we BUY criterion and when you put on it goes straight to film/title - BLISS, I hate when you buy a standard film and it has 5+ trailers and even advert sat beginning, sometimes unstoppable - frustrates me!!! lol

the message itself is fantastic. case and point made with your sister watching the LVT movie on a small screen. not to carry on, cause I think you at least acknowledge and understand my point, but educating is one thing and preaching is another. it is her loss, just as it is for those who watch the English dub track on a foreign film.

how about this one? : what about the number of people who listen to their iPods with one ear bud in and one out? I see this at the gym, on the train, everywhere... these people apparently don't know that nearly all modern music is recorded in stereo!! half of the recording is missing and they are oblivious!!

[tenia]

I do believe that both sides can't be touched by Lynch's messages on the Criterion disc and through the iPhone rant (which I found funny more than anything).

I mean, this is trying to get a technical presentation right.

Could you imagine such a text panel with written on it "Apologies for everyone who already knows this" ?

Yes, all his messages could be told in a more contextual way. As you wrote, there is a difference between preaching and educating. However, I'm quite sure Lynch appreciates people who don't have 3hrs of free time in a row to watch INLAND EMPIRE.

But surely, that's not his problem, isn't it ?
You're a director, you're with your editor in the cutting room, you don't think "well, we should think about putting a cut there which allows people to pause and go to the loo, or getting a snack". You're thinking in terms of overall edit and pace, and you're thinking your movie as a whole.

I believe this is what Lynch expresses : the movie is designed as a whole to be seen in certain conditions.
He just want the work of his DP being seen as designed.
He just want the work of his/her editor to be seen as designed.

I mean : would a painter who design a 100" x 100" painting be happy that people are seeing his paintings seen on an underlit 7" screen ?

But on the other hand, I'm quite sure he'd understand how not everyone being able to travel on site to see the whole painting physically.
But then again : he surely didn't think about this when painting it.

[Polaroid]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

the message itself is fantastic. case and point made with your sister watching the LVT movie on a small screen. not to carry on, cause I think you at least acknowledge and understand my point, but educating is one thing and preaching is another. it is her loss, just as it is for those who watch the English dub track on a foreign film.

how about this one? : what about the number of people who listen to their iPods with one ear bud in and one out? I see this at the gym, on the train, everywhere... these people apparently don't know that nearly all modern music is recorded in stereo!! half of the recording is missing and they are oblivious!!

Ah that bugs me - what's worse is when people use headphones under £5 haha >.< but each to their own I suppose..

And up yeah it can't stand English dubs, you lose all emotion in the voice acting, they arnt the ones on set experiencing the scenes, I've seen one and I couldn't sit through it, but with subtitles I enjoyed it a lot :-).

I don't get the fuss with subtitles, once you get used to them you forget you are ready subtitles, well for me anyway.

[blu-bry]

Originally Posted by jw007

Finally watched Black Narcissus and it was everything I was hoping for and more.

The ending is just simply amazing.

[Show spoiler]That shot of Kathleen Byron's face (Sister Ruth) when she opens the door at the end with her eyes as horrifying as possible with wet hair made me nearly jump off the couch. That shot alone was worth the purchase. Wow, talk about a sister going mad.

That shot is burned into my memory. Love it. It's both beautiful and horrible at the same time. I enjoy revisiting Black Narcissus every so often.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by tenia

But surely, that's not his problem, isn't it ?

I agree with all you said regarding his desire for his art not to be compromised - no matter what his definition of compromising his art consists of.. but - you said one golden thing here:

"But surely, that's not his problem, isn't it ?"

YES!!! not his problem

[tenia]

Well, I wrote "it's not his problem" that you can't watch his art in the way it is designed to be seen, but if he can act in a way that allows willing people to ensure they're watching it the closest way it's supposed to be seen, shouldn't we be happy to do it ?

In the end, isn't it the purpose of the past 15 years of video evolutions : allowing us to get closer to what the technical team of these movies envisioned when they were making it ?

So in a way, I feel it is the last step of bringing the theatrical presentation at home in its purest form : having the director telling you "put your TV is bit darker, yes, like this, it's better, this is how it should be".

Actually, it is probably quite similar to how directors or DPs supervise new restorations (when they do).

I don't know. In the end, I mean, Lynch doesn't put a knife on your throat for you to use his calibration advices, the same way probably lots of people didn't watch The Thin Red Line or The Tree of Life "loud".
But I do feel it is a nice touch that the director goes this extra mile to ensure the viewer experiences the movie as purely as possible.

Originally Posted by Polaroid

I don't get the fuss with subtitles, once you get used to them you forget you are ready subtitles, well for me anyway.

You might be too slow to read, or might feel you're missing a lot of action when reading the subs, or feeling you're more like reading a book than watching a movie. Also, you might have an optical issue making the reading at this pace quite tiring, etc etc.

While I'm myself strongly against dubs, I've seen plenty of people having very factual arguments as to why subs are just not practical for them.
And also, sadly : a lot simply feel it's "no fun", and an other lot read slowly and have never taken the opportunity to read faster through watching movies with subs instead of dubbed. I did, and most of my reading speed today comes from the heavy use of subbed movies.

[Polaroid]

Originally Posted by tenia

Well, I wrote "it's not his problem" that you can't watch his art in the way it is designed to be seen, but if he can act in a way that allows willing people to ensure they're watching it the closest way it's supposed to be seen, shouldn't we be happy to do it ?

In the end, isn't it the purpose of the past 15 years of video evolutions : allowing us to get closer to what the technical team of these movies envisioned when they were making it ?

So in a way, I feel it is the last step of bringing the theatrical presentation at home in its purest form : having the director telling you "put your TV is bit darker, yes, like this, it's better, this is how it should be".

Actually, it is probably quite similar to how directors or DPs supervise new restorations (when they do).

I don't know. In the end, I mean, Lynch doesn't put a knife on your throat for you to use his calibration advices, the same way probably lots of people didn't watch The Thin Red Line or The Tree of Life "loud".
But I do feel it is a nice touch that the director goes this extra mile to ensure the viewer experiences the movie as purely as possible.



You might be too slow to read, or might feel you're missing a lot of action when reading the subs, or feeling you're more like reading a book than watching a movie. Also, you might have an optical issue making the reading at this pace quite tiring, etc etc.

While I'm myself strongly against dubs, I've seen plenty of people having very factual arguments as to why subs are just not practical for them.
And also, sadly : a lot simply feel it's "no fun", and an other lot read slowly and have never taken the opportunity to read faster through watching movies with subs instead of dubbed. I did, and most of my reading speed today comes from the heavy use of subbed movies.

I get that with subtitles, but I have dyslexia and other stuff that affects me, and I manage maybe I have just gotten used to reading them.

But yeah, you can't make everyone happy I suppose which is a shame - hopefully in future they can improve dubbing lol

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by tenia

I don't know. In the end, I mean, Lynch doesn't put a knife on your throat for you to use his calibration advices, the same way probably lots of people didn't watch The Thin Red Line or The Tree of Life "loud".

not a knife to your throat, but he is most definitely thumbing his nose at you if you don't. I don't see how his constant campaign about things of this sort indicates anything to the contrary.

Originally Posted by tenia

You might be too slow to read, or might feel you're missing a lot of action when reading the subs, or feeling you're more like reading a book than watching a movie. Also, you might have an optical issue making the reading at this pace quite tiring, etc etc.

While I'm myself strongly against dubs, I've seen plenty of people having very factual arguments as to why subs are just not practical for them.
And also, sadly : a lot simply feel it's "no fun", and an other lot read slowly and have never taken the opportunity to read faster through watching movies with subs instead of dubbed. I did, and most of my reading speed today comes from the heavy use of subbed movies.

honestly, I can't fathom how this rationalization is in the same post as the comments about Lynch. Lynch condescendingly condemns when reasons of practicality come in the way while English dubs actually alter the film that the director and actors created in a tangible way! doesn't make much sense to me.

[ShellOilJunior]

I don't usually do list posts for BN but I'm pinching myself that this will likely be my haul for Nov:

-L'Eclisse
-L'Avventura
-La Dolce Vita
-Tati Box

Thankfully I have a $100 gift card.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

I don't usually do list posts for BN but I'm pinching myself that this will likely be my haul for Nov:

-L'Eclisse
-L'Avventura
-La Dolce Vita
-Tati Box

Thankfully I have a $100 gift card.

I'm thinking...

L'Avventura
My Darling Clementine
La Dolce Vita
The Complete Jacques Tati
The Shooting/Ride in the Whirlwind
It Happened One Night

Maybe The Big Chill, Tootsie, and Eraserhead as well if my wallet approves.

The only Criterion titles that I plan to purchase before November are The Innocents and The Vanishing, because those are day one priority, or really close to day one.

This all might be up in the air, though, if I end up moving to a new place in November or December.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by hoytereden

That first scene you mentioned

[Show spoiler]is one of the most frightening scenes ever on film IMO. That whole sequence makes me almost consider it a horror film in addition to the other genres it covers.

It's crazy of me to even compare Star Wars to any other movie in terms of a character but the way I saw Sister Ruth was like how I saw what happened to Annakin Skywalker!

[Show spoiler]It's like the sister turned to the dark side and in the end died but not before revealing her lack of faith to the other sisters (or Jedis). She emerged out of that door like a demon, possessed entirely by the dark side. Her desires and obsessions and attachments (to Mr. Dean) were likened to Annakin's attachments to all the people around him, and when turned down, used jealousy to try and destroy others (but not before dying herself, like Darth Vader did in Episode VI).

It totally makes me see Black Narcissus as a horror film in many ways or at least a ghost story.

[jw007]

Originally Posted by Polaroid

Oh - another amazing thing, we BUY criterion and when you put on it goes straight to film/title - BLISS, I hate when you buy a standard film and it has 5+ trailers and even advert sat beginning, sometimes unstoppable - frustrates me!!! lol

I watched Raging Bull a few nights ago and was surprised there was only 1 preview (or advertisement) before the main menu came on! Somehow I feel that these directors can even control the amount of ads/trailers if they really wanted to and not the studios, but maybe I'm wrong. It is rare for me to pop in a non-Criterion blu-ray and not see stuff before the main menu comes on though.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

not a knife to your throat, but he is most definitely thumbing his nose at you if you don't. I don't see how his constant campaign about things of this sort indicates anything to the contrary.




honestly, I can't fathom how this rationalization is in the same post as the comments about Lynch. Lynch condescendingly condemns when reasons of practicality come in the way while English dubs actually alter the film that the director and actors created in a tangible way! doesn't make much sense to me.

Jackie Chan has stated that he prefers his films to be seen in dubbed form rather than in subtitles because he doesn't want audiences distracted from fully viewing the images. Obviously, his films are a far more visual experience based on action and stunts than dialogue driven dramas but, in all honesty, unless you can speak and understand the language(s) being used, then whether it's dubbed or subtitled, either way it's a compromise as there are often subtleties of language that cannot be directly translated either way.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I should perhaps check out this Twin Peaks show someday. I'll wait until the price drops, though.

It's on Netflix...I also have not seen it. But will watch it there before I do a blind buy.

[Polaroid]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

Jackie Chan has stated that he prefers his films to be seen in dubbed form rather than in subtitles because he doesn't want audiences distracted from fully viewing the images. Obviously, his films are a far more visual experience based on action and stunts than dialogue driven dramas but, in all honesty, unless you can speak and understand the language(s) being used, then whether it's dubbed or subtitled, either way it's a compromise as there are often subtleties of language that cannot be directly translated either way.

This is same reason Enter The Void is in english, so the focus is on visuals, but tbh I can still take in visuals and read subtitles...

[blu-bry]

Originally Posted by jw007

It's crazy of me to even compare Star Wars to any other movie in terms of a character but the way I saw Sister Ruth was like how I saw what happened to Annakin Skywalker!

[Show spoiler]It's like the sister turned to the dark side and in the end died but not before revealing her lack of faith to the other sisters (or Jedis). She emerged out of that door like a demon, possessed entirely by the dark side. Her desires and obsessions and attachments (to Mr. Dean) were likened to Annakin's attachments to all the people around him, and when turned down, used jealousy to try and destroy others (but not before dying herself, like Darth Vader did in Episode VI).

It totally makes me see Black Narcissus as a horror film in many ways or at least a ghost story.

I really enjoy films like this where the setting actually turns out to be a character in the story. Especially when it is a very dark character!
I see similarities to "Picnic at Hanging Rock", "A Passage to India" and these types of films.
In Black Narcissus the monks who were there before the sisters ended up clearing out for some reason, and now the sisters were being tested. I see the location as a dark presence - or even inhabited by a dark presence to the point of testing the faith and the resolve of the sisters. Depending on how far you want to go with it, this presence may have "inhabited" Sister Ruth. At the very least her faith was tested, and she failed.
To over simplify, I guess I just really like films where the bad guy is a place. It has been months since I've watched it. I need to go back and see it again!

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by baheidstu

Jackie Chan has stated that he prefers his films to be seen in dubbed form rather than in subtitles because he doesn't want audiences distracted from fully viewing the images.

I used subtitles when I watched Jackie Chan's first three Police Story movies a few years ago, but those are not exactly labyrinthine plots. Subtitles are second nature to me, even during visually spectacular scenes.

[EPlay]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

Incidentally, I've fallen farther behind with my stack of still-unwatched Blu-rays over the past few days, because I've watched my Warner Archive Blu-ray of Out of the Past five times since it arrived in the mail on August 12. I'm going to step slowly away from that disc now, since absence makes the heart grow fonder, and get back to the unwatched stack.

I'd recorded "Out of the Past" from TCM last month and started watching it last night. (While one sitting is preferable, it can't always be done.) I'm quite sure I'd seen this years ago on DVD but not with undivided attention. I haven't seen much from the 40's, but I'm particularly enjoying the dialogue.