The Criterion Collection

[ijustblumyself]

I wouldn'y say The River is a completely safe blind-buy. It's fairly flawed, but rather beautiful. The Rules of the Game is a much better Renoir film.

[KillDaWabbit]

Originally Posted by iScottie

Have you seen Shoah before?

I have a question for you (or anyone else who has seen Shoah). I have been on the edge of buying it for quite a while now, but I keep hesitating based on something I read about it in the review on this site. The reviewer had mentioned how he thought there were questions that shouldn't have been asked. Would you say that the director pushed too far with the interviews? Or was it within the boundaries of acceptability given the severe nature of the topic. I am extremely interested in the topics, WWII and the holocaust, and I am a huge history nerd, so things that come off as boring or dry to others will probably enthrall me. Having said that, I don't want to watch a documentary where the interview subjects are consistently being insulted.

Thanks, and sorry for the huge block of words.

[Rich Pure Doom]

Originally Posted by jhiggy23

Do you feel that Hoops is rewatchable? As a three hour documentary, I'm curious.

I don't find Hoop Dreams good, or re-watchable. You may see things differently though.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by KillDaWabbit

I have a question for you (or anyone else who has seen Shoah). I have been on the edge of buying it for quite a while now, but I keep hesitating based on something I read about it in the review on this site. The reviewer had mentioned how he thought there were questions that shouldn't have been asked. Would you say that the director pushed too far with the interviews? Or was it within the boundaries of acceptability given the severe nature of the topic. I am extremely interested in the topics, WWII and the holocaust, and I am a huge history nerd, so things that come off as boring or dry to others will probably enthrall me. Having said that, I don't want to watch a documentary where the interview subjects are consistently being insulted.

Thanks, and sorry for the huge block of words.

If you love history, then this is certainly the film for you. As much as I enjoy history, Shoah started to feel like a chore at various points in the film.

Regarding your question, I would say that the interviewer pushed too hard with his questioning. He appeared disconnected from his subjects and did not exercise proper judgment, in my opinion. He's very pushy and, for one example, I recall him asking a survivor how he felt to bury his children and wife. Like...come on...

[KillDaWabbit]

Originally Posted by iScottie

If you love history, then this is certainly the film for you. As much as I enjoy history, Shoah started to feel like a chore at various points in the film.

Regarding your question, I would say that the interviewer pushed too hard with his questioning. He appeared disconnected from his subjects and did not exercise proper judgment, in my opinion. He's very pushy and, for one example, I recall him asking a survivor how he felt to bury his children and wife. Like...come on...

That's what I was afraid of. I don't think I would really care to see holocaust survivors pushed to recall the darkness they had to endure in that much detail. Seems sort of classless. My library does have it available on DVD. Perhaps I will try and watch it through them rather than paying for it.

Thanks for your opinion!

[JLant19]

Originally Posted by jhiggy23

Do you feel that Hoops is rewatchable? As a three hour documentary, I'm curious.

I really do, but I'm sure it could be my preference towards documentaries. I rewatch them quite often. I do however believe this is one of, maybe even if not the best documentaries ever filmed. It is still very relatable to this day.

[jmclick]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Have you seen Sirk's All That Heaven Allows as well?

Yes, I have, although it's been years, and I need to revisit it again. I remember being very impressed with how subversive Sirk managed to be underneath the surface. He added those same undercurrents to the incredible Written on the Wind (which is begging for a blu-ray upgrade), as well as the two under-appreciated black and white films he did with Barbara Stanwyck, All I Desire (1953) and There's Always Tomorrow (1956) ... those would make an incredible Criterion double feature.

[CriterionBlues]

Originally Posted by KillDaWabbit

I have a question for you (or anyone else who has seen Shoah). I have been on the edge of buying it for quite a while now, but I keep hesitating based on something I read about it in the review on this site. The reviewer had mentioned how he thought there were questions that shouldn't have been asked. Would you say that the director pushed too far with the interviews? Or was it within the boundaries of acceptability given the severe nature of the topic. I am extremely interested in the topics, WWII and the holocaust, and I am a huge history nerd, so things that come off as boring or dry to others will probably enthrall me. Having said that, I don't want to watch a documentary where the interview subjects are consistently being insulted.

Thanks, and sorry for the huge block of words.

Did he go too far? Probably. Was it justified to get answers and make a point? I say yes, but it depends on who you ask. He gets most criticism about slanting it towards operations in Poland, not talking about what was happening elsewhere, or that the Polish and other minority groups were targeted.

He may have had an agenda, but that doesn't change the mind-blowing nature of this film. I think every living breathing human being should see it, and based on what you've shared about your background, you will probably find it enthralling.

Just go through it in stages. It is massive.

[CriterionBlues]

And I have seen Hoop Dreams three times and enjoyed it each and every time, but for some reason I have yet to watch the upgrade yet. I keep bumping others above it.

[jmclick]

Originally Posted by KillDaWabbit

I have a question for you (or anyone else who has seen Shoah). I have been on the edge of buying it for quite a while now, but I keep hesitating based on something I read about it in the review on this site. The reviewer had mentioned how he thought there were questions that shouldn't have been asked. Would you say that the director pushed too far with the interviews? Or was it within the boundaries of acceptability given the severe nature of the topic. I am extremely interested in the topics, WWII and the holocaust, and I am a huge history nerd, so things that come off as boring or dry to others will probably enthrall me. Having said that, I don't want to watch a documentary where the interview subjects are consistently being insulted.

Thanks, and sorry for the huge block of words.

Personally, I don't think the director pushed to far with the interviews at all. And I didn't feel that the interview subjects were being "insulted".

Lanzmann did capture some of the interviews without the subjects' knowledge, but I think it can be argued in most cases that the ends justified the means. For example, I doubt that some of the former Nazis would have been so completely candid about their actions and so cavalier about defending themselves had they known they were being recorded.

In my opinion, Shoah is an important film that needs to be seen, especially for anyone attempting to come to grips mentally and emotionally with the facts of the Holocaust. Lanzmann's genius is that he doesn't rely on old newsreel footage and old documents; instead he brings the Holocaust into focus by probing people's memories. It's chilling to realize that the fear and hatred is still affecting the lives of the victims and the perpetrators some 40 years after the fact. That saying about the evil that men do living after them ...? Shoah proves how true that is.

[KillDaWabbit]

Originally Posted by jmclick

Personally, I don't think the director pushed to far with the interviews at all. And I didn't feel that the interview subjects were being "insulted".

Lanzmann did capture some of the interviews without the subjects' knowledge, but I think it can be argued in most cases that the ends justified the means. For example, I doubt that some of the former Nazis would have been so completely candid about their actions and so cavalier about defending themselves had they known they were being recorded.

In my opinion, Shoah is an important film that needs to be seen, especially for anyone attempting to come to grips mentally and emotionally with the facts of the Holocaust. Lanzmann's genius is that he doesn't rely on old newsreel footage and old documents; instead he brings the Holocaust into focus by probing people's memories. It's chilling to realize that the fear and hatred is still affecting the lives of the victims and the perpetrators some 40 years after the fact. That saying about the evil that men do living after them ...? Shoah proves how true that is.

Originally Posted by CriterionBlues

Did he go too far? Probably. Was it justified to get answers and make a point? I say yes, but it depends on who you ask. He gets most criticism about slanting it towards operations in Poland, not talking about what was happening elsewhere, or that the Polish and other minority groups were targeted.

He may have had an agenda, but that doesn't change the mind-blowing nature of this film. I think every living breathing human being should see it, and based on what you've shared about your background, you will probably find it enthralling.

Just go through it in stages. It is massive.

Everything you guys are telling me reinforces the idea that this an important film, but simultaneously makes me feel like I don't need to blind buy it.

[Scottie]

Wabbit, try to find a copy for renting at your library.

[RojD]

Originally Posted by KillDaWabbit

I have a question for you (or anyone else who has seen Shoah). I have been on the edge of buying it for quite a while now, but I keep hesitating based on something I read about it in the review on this site. The reviewer had mentioned how he thought there were questions that shouldn't have been asked. Would you say that the director pushed too far with the interviews? Or was it within the boundaries of acceptability given the severe nature of the topic. I am extremely interested in the topics, WWII and the holocaust, and I am a huge history nerd, so things that come off as boring or dry to others will probably enthrall me. Having said that, I don't want to watch a documentary where the interview subjects are consistently being insulted.

Thanks, and sorry for the huge block of words.

It never occurred to me that there was anything inappropriate in the questioning in Shoah. There's one scene that I remember as being uncomfortable for me, but that was because I felt like the subject was having a moment that was a bit private......I should say that I also get uncomfortable when people on the news tear up about an experience, even though news cameras cut away faster than Lanzmann's. My impression here was the subject wanted to be interviewed, wanted people to know about something he had trouble bringing himself to talk about. What a dynamic!

This film is a colossal documentary achievement, one that changed my view of the holocaust specifically but, more generally, brought home to me how much the past really and truly does inhabit the present. I often think back on it.

And formally, the leisurely pace, the repeated images, and the long takes are an important in the film. It's not at all a condensed bunch of info bits for intellectual consumption; it's an experience, and it works. I know of no other documentary like it. (I watched it over three nights.)

[WonderWeasel]

Originally Posted by CriterionBlues

And I have seen Hoop Dreams three times and enjoyed it each and every time, but for some reason I have yet to watch the upgrade yet. I keep bumping others above it.

It's my absolute favorite documentary, and it never loses its impact on me with repeated viewings. Plus they did a great job upconverting the SD source material for the new master, so it has never looked better.


I went with a couple of pre-New Wave French films, Orpheus and an upgrade of The Rules of the Game, for my first pickup of the sale. I can't wait to see how Orpheus looks in HD. Does anyone know if they have any plans of releasing The Blood of a Poet and Testament of Orpheus on blu?

[jlk5844]

I love this talk of Shoah, I was thinking about it today (never having seen it) and this talk in here only makes me want to watch it more. It's cool to hear both sides of this issue of pressing questions. I am very much into history and I find the Holocaust fascinating, and this sounds up my alley. The fact that former Nazis are interviewed intrigues me most, because I've never seen that.

Also, yes, Hoop Dreams is a fantastic documentary. I will pick up the Criterion Blu-ray one of these days, curious to check out the extra on the disc catching up with them.

[jhiggy23]

Originally Posted by WonderWeasel

It's my absolute favorite documentary, and it never loses its impact on me in repeated viewings. Plus they did a great job upconverting the SD source material for the new master, so it has never looked better.


I went with a couple of pre-New Wave French films, Orpheus and an upgrade of The Rules of the Game, for my first pickup of the sale. I can't wait to see how Orpheus looks in HD. Does anyone know if they have any plans of releasing The Blood of a Poet and Testament of Orpheus on blu?

Orpheus looks great. Love the style of the film.

[oildude]

For anyone looking for box set recommendations - or just a Criterion recommendation in general - I think you cannot go wrong with these. Both include some of the greatest films ever made and I cannot recommend these sets highly enough.



If you think of French cinema only in terms of Godard, Truffaut, Assayas, Melville, Bresson, Malle, Chabrol, Renoir, etc, prepare to have your cinematic world expanded with warmth, humor, old-fashioned romance, incredible musical scores, biting satire, clever visual gags, commentaries on social dislocation and modernity done with a wink, a song, or a humorous routine that proves every bit as insightful as any screed from Godard (but infinitely more enjoyable), mind-blowing sets, bright candy colors and luminous blacks and whites, stories that will move you, entertain you, maybe make you tear up a bit, most certainly give you a barrel of smiles for every sadness....all done with a sense of wonder, absurdity, and a love of life that is on display in every frame. Most of all, they will make you realize just how terrific it is to be alive, a film fan, and able to experience the joy of discovering movies like this for the first time.

I am VERY impressed having gone through these sets back to back for the past month. Mon Oncle, Playtime, The Umbrellas of Cherbourg, The Young Girls of Rochefort....... if you are a fan of well-done musicals and emotionally investing stories, or if the wonderful charm of silent comedy-inspired humor and slapstick tickles your funny bone, you cannot go wrong here. My view of French cinema is forever changed. Melville is still the king of the mountain, but Tati and Demy are sitting just a few feet below. Fantastic directors with an amazingly rich body of work.

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by KillDaWabbit

I have a question for you (or anyone else who has seen Shoah). I have been on the edge of buying it for quite a while now, but I keep hesitating based on something I read about it in the review on this site. The reviewer had mentioned how he thought there were questions that shouldn't have been asked. Would you say that the director pushed too far with the interviews? Or was it within the boundaries of acceptability given the severe nature of the topic. I am extremely interested in the topics, WWII and the holocaust, and I am a huge history nerd, so things that come off as boring or dry to others will probably enthrall me. Having said that, I don't want to watch a documentary where the interview subjects are consistently being insulted.

Thanks, and sorry for the huge block of words.

Hmm. It's a tough call, really. Yes, some of the questions are either right on the line or even over it. But OTOH, the subject almost requires those types of questions. It's such a brutal topic.

Like I said, it's a tough call.

[jw007]

Well, I had to do it again.

My second haul of the sale in just 2 days.

This time I used the new 20% coupon that expires this weekend plus the $5/50 coupon. The 20% off coupon I used on Limelight and it came out to $14.39 before tax. The other 3 titles (The Merchant of Four Seasons, Make Way for Tomorrow, The Friends of Eddie Coyle) were an average of $16.32 each.

[Fabs]

Originally Posted by JLant19

I really do, but I'm sure it could be my preference towards documentaries. I rewatch them quite often. I do however believe this is one of, maybe even if not the best documentaries ever filmed. It is still very relatable to this day.

Tokyo Olympiad is even better