The Criterion Collection

[jhiggy23]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Soundtracks: FANTASTIC TOPIC, guys

Here are a few of my favorite:

Zbigniew Preisner: Rouge/Red, from Three Colors Trilogy.

"Fashion Show II" - Zbigniew Preisner (Trois couleurs: Rouge - Krzysztof Kieslowski) - YouTube

Gheorghe Zamfir: Picnic at Hanging Rock

Gheorghe Zamfir - Theme From Picnic at Hanging Rock (Doina Sus Pe Culmea Dealului) - YouTube

Nino Rota: Purple Noon

Plein Soleil - Purple Noon - Nino Rota - YouTube

Georges Delerue: Contempt (One of the all-time greatest European composers).

Theme de Camille - Georges Delerue - YouTube


And one of my favorite, not yet in the collection, but hopefully soon we will have a beautiful Blu-ray release:

Philippe Sarde: Les Choses de la Vie

Philippe Sarde - Les Choses de la Vie Soundtrack - Les Choses de la Vie - YouTube

Pro-B

Great selections. Delerue's from Contempt tops my list.

[jmclick]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Hi bwdowiak,

1. Well resolved addresses evenness, and specifically whether the grain is as it naturally appears on the element that was used to produce the transfer.

There are multiple reasons why the grain may appear blotchy or patchy. One possible reason is an old transfer with limitations/issues. Another possible reason is weak encoding. This being said, grain does not have universal appearance. In other words, depending on the format, it would appear either over/underexposed to the untrained eyes. Obviously, with 16mm material it would appear overexposed, while with 65mm/75mm format it would appear underexposed. Additionally, the better the scan (high-quality), the more refined and less obvious the grain will be (there will be a difference between 2K and 4K transfers, but a relatively minor one). So, generallys peaking, as you transition to 4K -- even with upscaling -- the image becomes "tighter" and you see less of the grain.

Here are some examples so that you can see the difference.

[Show spoiler]Well resolved grain

1. Following

This is 16mm grain. You can see how obvious and evenly distributed the grain is. There is no blockiness/blotchy patterns/smearing.

2. The Fury

Here you have 1.85:1-framed film, 2K restoration. The appearance is different. But, do you see how even the grain is again? No patches, no smeary spots.

3. Hiroshima mon amour Blu-ray

Moving to 1.37:1 (but not 16mm). This is from a 4K restoration. Do you see again how "tight" and "even" the grain is?

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/scree...958&position=1

4. Ben-Hur

Moving to a much larger format: 2.75:1. Do you see how "glossy" the grain is? It is so refined that it is extremely difficult to see (it is there). Also, this is very high-quality scanning:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/scree...756&position=3

So, remember, as you move from 16mm to 70mm grain exposure evolves. Also, as you move from 2K to 4K and all the way up to 8K scans, grain exposure again evolves (despite the fact that eventually you downscale to go back down to 1080p for Blu-ray).

Poorly resolved grain/Other issues

1. The Fabulous Baker Boys Blu-ray

The release is sourced from an old master. Do you see on the left side how the grain looks blotchy/smeary?

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/scree...274&position=8

2. The Last Days of Disco

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/scree...08&position=11

Another release sourced from an old master. Do you see how in the upper left corner the grain looks smeary? There is a lot of sharpening here as well. Do you see the harsh edges?

3. Audrey Rose

Another release sourced from a very old master. Here the grain is literally overwhelmed by noise. Do you see the wavy patterns? Because the grain is overwhelmed by the noise, the image is very flat and there is literally no depth.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/scree...477&position=1

4. Stolen Kisses

This is a classic example where the grain isn't as well resolved as it could be because of poor encoding. Do you see how smeary it appears?

5. Performance

And another here:
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/scree...57&position=12

Do you see the large patches that create a snowy spider web?

So remember again: There are plenty of very good older masters that would produce good Blu-ray releases. Grain could be a bit more pronounced, but they are fine. But some have native issues -- for example, they are loaded with noise -- and some have been manipulated. Naturally, you could encounter more of the issues highlighted above. And finally, poor encoding will produce poor results. (Also, high bitrates do not equate excellent encoding).

I hope this makes it a bit easier to understand, bwdowiak

Pro-B

You would not believe how incredibly helpful this was, Pro-B. Thank you so much. I know this post with its many excellent examples must have taken you quite a while to assemble, and your efforts are greatly appreciated.

[Banned User]

Originally Posted by CPinheiro

I imagine its probably been discussed before, but I was just wondering which movie in the collection has the most beautiful/haunting score or soundtrack.

I love Three Colors: Blue and The Double Life of Veronique, but imo Picnic at Hanging Rock is the one that has the eeriest soundtrack and it fits perfectly with the movie.

What do you guys think? Whats your favorite score/soundtrack in the collection?

The Phantom Carriage alt track by a long shot. Just plain Creepy.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Hi bwdowiak,

[Show spoiler]1. Well resolved addresses evenness, and specifically whether the grain is as it naturally appears on the element that was used to produce the transfer.

There are multiple reasons why the grain may appear blotchy or patchy. One possible reason is an old transfer with limitations/issues. Another possible reason is weak encoding. This being said, grain does not have universal appearance. In other words, depending on the format, it would appear either over/underexposed to the untrained eyes. Obviously, with 16mm material it would appear overexposed, while with 65mm/75mm format it would appear underexposed. Additionally, the better the scan (high-quality), the more refined and less obvious the grain will be (there will be a difference between 2K and 4K transfers, but a relatively minor one). So, generallys peaking, as you transition to 4K -- even with upscaling -- the image becomes "tighter" and you see less of the grain.

Here are some examples so that you can see the difference.

Well resolved grain

1. Following

This is 16mm grain. You can see how obvious and evenly distributed the grain is. There is no blockiness/blotchy patterns/smearing.

2. The Fury

Here you have 1.85:1-framed film, 2K restoration. The appearance is different. But, do you see how even the grain is again? No patches, no smeary spots.

3. Hiroshima mon amour Blu-ray

Moving to 1.37:1 (but not 16mm). This is from a 4K restoration. Do you see again how "tight" and "even" the grain is?

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/scree...958&position=1

4. Ben-Hur

Moving to a much larger format: 2.75:1. Do you see how "glossy" the grain is? It is so refined that it is extremely difficult to see (it is there). Also, this is very high-quality scanning:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/scree...756&position=3

So, remember, as you move from 16mm to 70mm grain exposure evolves. Also, as you move from 2K to 4K and all the way up to 8K scans, grain exposure again evolves (despite the fact that eventually you downscale to go back down to 1080p for Blu-ray).

Poorly resolved grain/Other issues

1. The Fabulous Baker Boys Blu-ray

The release is sourced from an old master. Do you see on the left side how the grain looks blotchy/smeary?

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/scree...274&position=8

2. The Last Days of Disco

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/scree...08&position=11

Another release sourced from an old master. Do you see how in the upper left corner the grain looks smeary? There is a lot of sharpening here as well. Do you see the harsh edges?

3. Audrey Rose

Another release sourced from a very old master. Here the grain is literally overwhelmed by noise. Do you see the wavy patterns? Because the grain is overwhelmed by the noise, the image is very flat and there is literally no depth.

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/scree...477&position=1

4. Stolen Kisses

This is a classic example where the grain isn't as well resolved as it could be because of poor encoding. Do you see how smeary it appears?

5. Performance

And another here:
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/scree...57&position=12

Do you see the large patches that create a snowy spider web?

So remember again: There are plenty of very good older masters that would produce good Blu-ray releases. Grain could be a bit more pronounced, but they are fine. But some have native issues -- for example, they are loaded with noise -- and some have been manipulated. Naturally, you could encounter more of the issues highlighted above. And finally, poor encoding will produce poor results. (Also, high bitrates do not equate excellent encoding).

I hope this makes it a bit easier to understand, bwdowiak

Pro-B

holy s**t! that's why I love this site and always look forward to reading your reviews! I haven't had a chance to read a word of this yet, but I will absorb all of it when I have time. thanks so much, Pro-B.

[bwdowiak]

was disappointed that no one had mentioned Georges Delerue until I got to this page and see his name mentioned 3 times!

The Third Man and Jules and Jim have my two favorite scores. Throw in the song Le Tourbillon in J&J and it can't be beat.

[jmclick]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

was disappointed that no one had mentioned Georges Delerue until I got to this page and see his name mentioned 3 times!

Delerue's score for Fred Zinnemann's Julia is magnificent. I've always wanted a recording of it, but have never located one. That's a film that would make a most worthy addition to The Criterion Collection. The possible topics for supplemental features are incredible and fascinating (the veracity of Hellman's memoir; the Oscar night brouhaha; Meryl Streep's debut; the relationship between Hellman and Dashiell Hammett; the friendship between Fonda and Redgrave and its influence on the film; the history of the Algonquin roundtable; etc., etc.)

[RestlessEye]

Any fans of Pen-ek Ratanaruang's Last Life in the Universe? I would love for Criterion to add it to their blu-ray collection. I just watched it again on DVD the other night. Such great photography from cinematographer Christopher Doyle.

[Bates_Motel]

Originally Posted by iScottie

According to this list, Janus Films has the rights to these films that have not yet been released on BD or DVD:

1922 - Dr. Mabuse, The Gambler

KINO has already confirmed this title as part of a Fritz Lang set that also includes Spies and Woman in the Moon, I believe.

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

I number crunched myself into a stupor on AmazonUK last week being that you don't quite know what you're paying until you reach the final part of the checkout process. I never did pull the trigger, but I had these in my basket:

The Tarnished Angels (Sirk)
Classe Tous Risques (Sautet)
..and
The Hero (S. Ray)

I will definitely pick up the new The Third Man release, but since it is region free, I'm guessing that it will be easily available state-side and hopefully for less money if I am patient.

after an obscene amount of deliberation, I went with...

Classe Tous Risques (Sautet)
Good Morning / I was Born, but..." (Ozu)
and picked up Day For Night w/ some reward points I had on another site

I decided against the UK S. Ray titles because I still have to watch The Music Room and The Big City... and then of course we're getting Apu later this year, so I'll have enough to hold me over until Criterion releases more Ray (seems like there'll be something new next year, too, considering that they have the licensing rights for like 18 titles.)

I still want the Sirk title and only decided to hold off because I wanted to spend less than $50.

Pro-B's review of Good Morning / I was Born, but... seemed like a pretty decent endorsement for that release. From what I understand the DVD is horrendous. I had a chance to see some of An Autumn Afternoon and I REALLY enjoyed what I saw. Even think my wife would like some of these, so I'm looking forward to this, too.

[pro-bassoonist]

BLIND CHANCE PACKAGING PHOTOS



The market version just arrived in the mail. I will be working on it tonight, and the review will be up tomorrow/on Saturday.

Originally Posted by jmclick

You would not believe how incredibly helpful this was, Pro-B. Thank you so much. I know this post with its many excellent examples must have taken you quite a while to assemble, and your efforts are greatly appreciated.

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

holy s**t! that's why I love this site and always look forward to reading your reviews! I haven't had a chance to read a word of this yet, but I will absorb all of it when I have time. thanks so much, Pro-B.

No problem, guys. Have a great weekend

Pro-B

[Ray Jackson]

For All Mankind has a very underrated soundtrack imo

[Ray Jackson]

What's y'alls personal favorite Criterion cover design?

This is my personal favorite.

Cannot wait to own this.

[Ray Jackson]

This might be my least favorite.

Could Criterion have possibly been less creative on this one?

[bwdowiak]

I love the Kwaidan cover, but I also happen to like the cover for Thief, too. I know it looks like a dude in a Members Only jacket just standing there, but with the neon lit streets, the stylish font for the title, the nighttime shot, etc., I think it suits the film perfectly.

[Ray Jackson]

Originally Posted by bwdowiak

I love the Kwaidan cover, but I also happen to like the cover for Thief, too. I know it looks like a dude in a Members Only jacket just standing there, but with the neon lit streets, the stylish font for the title, the nighttime shot, etc., I think it suits the film perfectly.

It seems so unimaginative and dull compared to this one.

[baheidstu]

One of my favourites, I love the use of the original poster art with the simple yet striking colour scheme and the Saul Bass silhouette.



My least favourite, too busy looking and even a bit sloppy with the "T" being covered over.

[Polaroid]

Can't pick one :P!

[Ray Jackson]

Originally Posted by Polaroid

Can't pick one :P!

Those are all great.

I almost blind bought House during the recent sale.

...but was persuaded not to by some of the "It's like a crazy episode of Scooby Doo on acid" comments by other members.

[Polaroid]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

Those are all great.

I almost blind bought House during the recent sale.

...but was persuaded not to by some of the "It's like a crazy episode of Scooby Doo on acid" comments by other members.

It great! Its very funny but also very emotional, its got some great experiments with visual effects - it is a crazy film and it may seem like just an odd/crazy film but it does have a lot of layers to it.

It sin my top 10 Criterions, and the cover of me is just brilliant - I think it was the first Criterion cover I had seen

[jhiggy23]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

This might be my least favorite.

Could Criterion have possibly been less creative on this one?

I thought the alternate covers were much better. I loved the one with the sparks.