Kino/Lober's Black Sabbath (1963)

[risky1975]

Thought you guy's might want to know.. i got a message from Kino/Lober Directly on FB stating that the Blu Of Black Sabbath will not have the AIP version included, only Italian Version w/Subtitles ..So there you have it Arrow's Version will be the all time Definitive version of this film and imo the only one to buy...If you are not region free this and the hammer films alone should be enough reason to go region free.. best thing i ever did as a movie fan...

[bigshot]

As far as I'm concerned, the only advantage of the AIP version is having Karloff in English with his own voice. The movie itself is a million times better in the Italian version that Bava himself approved.

I feel differently about Black Sunday because of Les Baxter's great score for that picture.

[RiFiFi1955]

Are they actually different cuts of the film or is it just the language that differs?

[Metallix87]

Oh well, I guess I'll just import the Arrow Blu-Ray when I get my region free 3D player later this year.

[risky1975]

Yaeh there are two completely different cut's.. i much prefer the AIP american version.. but it's all a matter of opinion ..but check this out

Black Sabbath - The Arrow Video Story - YouTube

[bigshot]

The AIP version censors a few shots of The Wirdlak, and completely butchers the Telephone. Apparently the lesbian subtext was too much for US audiences, so they rewrote the script completely when they dubbed to English, making it a ghost story. Also, the order of the segments is juggled around in the US version, totally throwing off the pacing of the movie. There is also a different music track on the US version, which is considerably less atmospheric. Like I said, the only advantage of the AIP version is Karloff speaking in his own voice.

[bigshot]

You should put that video in a spoiler tag. I can't believe anyone would create a trailer for a movie and put the single most important shot in that sequence as the poster frame.

[Metallix87]

Originally Posted by bigshot

The AIP version censors a few shots of The Wirdlak, and completely butchers the Telephone. Apparently the lesbian subtext was too much for US audiences, so they rewrote the script completely when they dubbed to English, making it a ghost story. Also, the order of the segments is juggled around in the US version, totally throwing off the pacing of the movie. There is also a different music track on the US version, which is considerably less atmospheric. Like I said, the only advantage of the AIP version is Karloff speaking in his own voice.

That's all irrelevant. As a horror fan, I want both cuts.

[bigshot]

That's fine. Just watch the Italian version when you watch the movie. That's the movie that Mario Bava made.

[Brian81]

I'll end up with both...buying both since not every player I own is region free.

I will say that the lack of the AIP cut's inclusion is not a surprise. It wasn't included on the Image DVD release nor the Anchor Bay DVD release. The only time it's been released on disc was the Black Sunday/Black Sabbath laserdisc. And on VHS.

Now hearing about what cuts will be included on the upcoming Kidnapped is more a curiosity to me, as the Anchor Bay DVD included both cuts.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by risky1975

Yaeh there are two completely different cut's.. i much prefer the AIP american version.. but it's all a matter of opinion ...

I have to disagree

The Italian version is actually more explicit/graphic. In addition to the better score -- Les Baxter's score is very clearly inferior -- The Telephone, which I consider to be the best segment, has a very different structure.

It is a great idea to listen to Tim Lucas' audio commentary in its entirety.

Pro-B

[dsman71]

I want to watch the AIP version out of curiosity. I am 100% sure the Italian version is superior EXCEPT that awful unforgiving moment in the film where they...........
drum roll ...............
Dub the great Boris Karloff's Voice !!! ARGH !!
That my friends is a cinematic sin !

[billyearle]

Glad Arrow's came out first, but I still think I will break down and buy this too, if only to see thier slightly different, and often slightly superior (IMO) PQ. But the European cut on Arrow looks pretty terrific, after watching the AIP cut. Still no word on Kino's extras I guess. Some behind the scenes stills (like on the Anchor Bay boxset DVD) and trailers in HD would be nice.
I'm too lazy to look through my BDs, does any release so far have HD trailers of Black Sabbath? I know one BD has an extensive real of Bava trailers, but I bet that's in SD.
And, Hey, does anyone know if any unused scenes survive and can be seen somewhere??? Lucas mentions one pretty incredible one in the commentary, the sex scene with the giant sewer rat jumping on the man. Even some stills of that might make his book a must-buy, I'm just afraid to see how much it sells for now.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by bigshot

As far as I'm concerned, the only advantage of the AIP version is having Karloff in English with his own voice. The movie itself is a million times better in the Italian version that Bava himself approved.

But the Italian has different sequence, doesn't it?
In the US, the dead-woman plot first (which works as a warmup), The Telephone in the middle (where it should be), and the Boris Karloff segment as the "feature attraction" third.

All other changes, yes, some considerable localization, but imagine if Roger Corman's "Tales of Terror" had mixed the stories around.

[bigshot]

DVD Beaver has screencaps of the Kino version and it isn't even close to any of the other releases... flat contrast, dark, muddy, green, undersaturated. I cancelled my preorder. Kino needs to do better than that.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by bigshot

DVD Beaver has screencaps of the Kino version and it isn't even close to any of the other releases... flat contrast, dark, muddy, green, undersaturated. I cancelled my preorder. Kino needs to do better than that.

Don't cancel your pre-order or form an opinion based on what is posted on that site. The screencaptures posted there are misleading. They are not representative of what is in fact on the disc.

Pro-B

[bgart13]

If Kino's isn't as good as Arrow's, it's an extreme failure on their part. They've blown it on KIDNAPPED (no RABID DOGS), and the initial Dvd Beaver review for BLACK SABBATH is not positive (forget the rights issues for the AIP situation, if the image is anywhere close to what Gary posted...ugh). I feel bad for region locked Bava fans in the US.

[Brian81]

Did DVDBeaver mess up? I have a hard time believing the release would end up looking like that. All the prior releases have looked pretty much the same - and it's hard to believe Kino would screw up like that...


On another note, it's extremely disappointing hat Kidnapped doesn't include the Rabid Dogs cut, but Kino will still get my money on this one. Has Arrow even announced a release for this one? Going from DVDBeaver's caps for Kidnapped, it's a monumental improvement over the DVDs....looks great IMO.

[bgart13]

Mondo Digital has added the Kino BS:

http://www.mondo-digital.com/blacksabbathkino2.jpg

It corroborates Dvd Beaver's review, with Kino's looking sickly and just not right. What in the world is going on at Kino? I had hopes for their release of A BAY OF BLOOD being corrected, but now? Hoo boy...

[deepred]

Extremely disappointed that Kino botched this transfer of one of Bava's most classic films. Worse that the Arrow version is beautiful but locked. I canceled my pre-order.