4K Movies Releases

[infiniteCR]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

More detail and contrast than can be expressed in 100 nits...so we get more detail than we when we see this in an HDR theater? Unfathomably confusing information all over. Not sure I'll ever manage to get this.

[Pieter V]

Even "After Earth" is a 4K title but with 2K VFX:

To enhance the naturalistic beauty, they shot and projected in 4K with Sony's new F65 digital camera. However, because of cost the CG cityscapes and otherworldly creatures were done in 2K but the overall result is stunning despite only half the movie being true 4K.

http://www.awn.com/vfxworld/going-po...ic-after-earth

[Geoff D]

^ Bingo. And that's not an unusual situation (even from Sony a.k.a. The Kings of 4K), it's pretty much the norm for modern 4K finishes.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by infiniteCR

More detail and contrast than can be expressed in 100 nits...so we get more detail than we when we see this in an HDR theater? Unfathomably confusing information all over. Not sure I'll ever manage to get this.

Yup. Even now we see more peak brightness in the home grade of an SDR movie @ 100 nits versus the cinema SDR iteration which is mastered for a target of 14 fL/48 nits.

[infiniteCR]

Geoff, that sounds like more contrast to me. Is it more detail though than what we see in the theaters? Am I going to notice more pores on peoples' faces than I would in a Dolby Vision theater. I've only been once to an HDR show for Tomorrowland. It would be great if I got more detail at home, but I always thought we got more detail cinematically, and it sounds like this is changing.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

^ Bingo. And that's not an unusual situation (even from Sony a.k.a. The Kings of 4K), it's pretty much the norm for modern 4K finishes.

Gone girl will save us all

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yup. Even now we see more peak brightness in the home grade of an SDR movie @ 100 nits versus the cinema SDR iteration which is mastered for a target of 14 fL/48 nits.

Yes detail... Detail that was always meant to be seen "detail"
This will turn into the opposite of black crushgate

[Geoff D]

Too brightgate?

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Too brightgate?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by infiniteCR

Geoff, that sounds like more contrast to me. Is it more detail though than what we see in the theaters? Am I going to notice more pores on peoples' faces than I would in a Dolby Vision theater. I've only been once to an HDR show for Tomorrowland. It would be great if I got more detail at home, but I always thought we got more detail cinematically, and it sounds like this is changing.

If by detail you mean spatial resolution then current HD Blu-ray is only a few pixels removed from the current cinematic standard of 2K, and so shall it be for UHD Blu-ray vs cinema 4K. What HDR brings to the table isn't so much "detail" in terms of sheer sharpness but a wider colour volume and a punchier, more dynamic (heh) range between the brightest and darkest parts of the image. What you'd see in a Dolby Vision theater should be broadly analogous to the home HDR version, peak brightness levels aside.

[infiniteCR]

Geoff, I can't say I totally get it now, but I do understand it better. Sounds like the jump from 100 - 1,000 nits on the brightness scale doesn't bring any extra capacity for more detail. Thanks for explaining it for the less technically knowledgeable people like me.

[dvdmike]

The detail was always there the brightness and colour changes could show more.
But it is debatable if that detail was meant to be seen in the first place

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Opips3

Neat. Please tell me what's title a movie?

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Rubinrot-Blu-ray/71555/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

No I mean the effects rendered at 4k, that would be an end to end 4k finish in my eyes....

You mean everything in 4K. Can you, or anyone, name one U.K. production which had “an end to end 4k finish”, even simply claimed? Just one, mind you, with a reference of course (rather than an opinion).

P.S.
If I recall my London geography correctly, at least Chelsea folks having a bit of culture in them might be familiar with it.

[Spike M.]

From today's ASC article on The Force Awakens...

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

From today's ASC article on The Force Awakens...

Working with 4K scans is one thing but what about the actual finish, my good man?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by infiniteCR

Geoff, I can't say I totally get it now, but I do understand it better.

Should be an easy enough concept to understand if you’ve experienced this phenomenon in the pursuit of purchasing lenses and frames (glasses) at differing optometrist offices…and many people have ( posted 7/29/2015)

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Underappreciated benefit of HDR: it allows one to highlight the detail of a 4K shot and finished movie so that one can actually see it (the detail) better. The detail is there with 4K, but thru SDR mastering and projection you can (and often do) lose some of it…..sometimes a lot of it.

One may ask, WHY is that? Well….the human visual system has a contrast sensitivity function, e.g. we need more contrast to see finer detail.

Still skeptical? Well, has anyone ever gone to their local optometrist or ophthalmologist office and had a visual acuity test done by having you read one of those letter charts projected on the wall and subsequently been told you had 20/15 vision and then a week or two later you went to another office for instance to get custom frames (that the first office didn’t have in stock) and forgetting your recent prescription, they (the 2nd office) did a quick visual acuity test and you now measured 20/20 (which is poorer than 20/15)……BUT…then thinking about it, you noticed that the projection wasn’t as bright (contrasty) as in the first office because the equipment in the 2nd office wasn’t being maintained.

It happens.

Proof of concept with movie material , say you? Well, of the vfx shots in Tomorrowland that were 4K all the way through (the elements were produced in 4K, the renders were rendered in 4K and they were output in 4K), if you carefully critique the picture quality, you can actually see greater detail in the Dolby Vision version than the SDR grade.

Take home message? Well…..whether some people like it or not, HDR complements higher spatial resolution (4K).

It’s all related to real science……http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...300199517.html <- follow-up to everyone from USC involved in making a real difference in peoples' lives….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...us#post6848325

[Geoff D]

My incorrect summarising aside, the juice that Infinite's *really* after is whether the home version of HDR will reveal even more detail than the theatrical HDR version...

[Geoff D]

Just read in December's issue of the ASC mag that Mockingjay Part 2 got a Dolby Vision grade alongside the regular 2D and 3D versions. Cool. It was shot on Alexa so that means 2.8K res upscaled for the 4K finish but DP Jo Willems loves using old Panavision anamorphic glass anyway so it was never likely to be the sharpest show around. But the detail that is there will surely be enhanced by the HDR grade.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Also, people seem to continually forget that just because a HDR master is done at 1,000 nits or 4,000 nits or whatever else, that isn't the same as the level of reference white with SDR content. Overall APL is the same as before, you are just providing more dynamic range for highlights and color, it isn't like they shifted EVERYTHING up so that the movie is now 10x brighter than it was before.

Hopefully that will be true but I have seen promotional material from Dolby in which they boasted that SMPTE 2084 could have a reference white level of 1,000 nits and highlights of 10,000 nits. The BDA was worried enough about brightness that they made a recommendation for Ultra HD Blu-ray that the average brightness of HDR titles shouldn't be more than 400 nits.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Hardly, but we've all seen certain people have to be dragged kicking and screaming into current times, time and time and time again.

Would that include 3D and HFR?

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

@7:10 for those concerned with artistic intent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3z1...ature=youtu.be

Couldn't a studio delegate basically be anyone who works for the studio?

Originally Posted by ray0414

Dolby and fox have both already stated that they start with the RAW files.

Dolby said that they recommend using the raw files but where did Fox state that all of their Ultra HD Blu-ray movies were being redone in 4K? I am extremely skeptical of that since it would require millions per movie and studios are loudly boasting when they do that for a single movie (such as The Martian).

[infiniteCR]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Should be an easy enough concept to understand if you’ve experienced this phenomenon in the pursuit of purchasing lenses and frames (glasses) at differing optometrist offices…and many people have ( posted 7/29/2015)

It’s all related to real science……http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...300199517.html <- follow-up to everyone from USC involved in making a real difference in peoples' lives….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...us#post6848325

I saw Tomorrowland in dolby vision in the theater. When it comes out in HDR on bluray its going to be ten times brighter if I am understanding all this at all. Is my eyesight now going to notice more detail than in the theater?


Geoff, yes I think that's what I am asking because the original excerpt was talking about 100 nits as if it were a limitation of some kind and I don't really understand that. It sounds like somehow we will get more detail at home, which is amazing to think about.