"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Objectivity]

Originally Posted by 4K2K

Is it true that widescreen is closer to the human eye's field of view than 4:3 or is it the other way around?

According to an old revision of wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...ldid=102478358

That paragraph is from an old revision on the 'widescreen' entry and doesn't appear on the new entry. I've read lots of other internet sources say widescreen and widescreen TVs are closer to human's field of view than 4:3 ones.

My question is what is the aspect ratio that is closest to human vision/what is the actual aspect ratio of human vision?

I don't know what's closer to human vision, but that didn't play a factor in the original decision to make movies wider.

Back before television, movies were almost all 4:3. When TV became popular, movie studios were afraid they were going to take a hit because people could see the same thing at home as in theaters. They fought back by creating wider aspect ratios to give viewers something they couldn't get at home.

It's kinda like what's happening now with the resurgence of 3D movies. With low-end home setups becoming nicer than many multiplexes, studios are trying to boost revenue with something not available at home.

[Bobby Henderson]

I don't know what's closer to human vision, but that didn't play a factor in the original decision to make movies wider.

I don't agree with that at all.

This Is Cinerama kicked off the 1950's wide screen revolution in 1952. The movie was specifically designed to provide a more immersive experience to viewers. It turned out to be a big hit, edging out The Greatest Show On Earth for the title of top money making movie of 1952. It grossed $15 million, which at the time was a pretty big amount of money.

After the success of This Is Cinerama other studios rushed to develop the many different rival formats that followed (CinemaScope, Todd-AO, VistaVision, Technirama, MGM Camera 65 -which became Super Panavision, etc.)

[Jeff Kleist]

Widescreen was chosen for the "gimmick" specifically because it would have the impact. It wasn't just arbitrary

[Dotpattern]

Penton, or Jeff

Sorry if this has been covered already, and I'm not even sure you guys can address it, but I have been wondering why studios haven't been doing more to educate the mainstream consumers on some basic things like aspect ratio, film grain and source quality (common "issues" that newbies bring up on this board all the time).

For instance, a lot of discs when loaded start off with an ad for Blu-ray in general and cover all the benefits like disc capacity, higher resolution, HD audio, etc. First, I don't understand the point of these ads since obviously we're seeing it because we already bought into it...do we really need more convincing? But my other problem is that these ads give the false impression that Blu-ray offers pristine PQ simply because it's Blu-ray, without addressing the limitations of the source material. This is one reason I think there needs to be something on each disc that includes some education, especially considering so many people are starting to buy players now with the wrong expectation.

If the studios are going to continue including these ads at the start of their discs, why not include information about the benefits of aspect ratio and address that there are several different ones (this could include quick interviews with directors who prefer to shoot in 2:35 and are happy their movies are being preserved this way on BD). It could also address film grain at the same time, and also present this as a benefit as the clarity is more "film-like" than DVD.

Discs themselves should include a calibration tool in the main menu, similar to what THX had on their certified discs. But with an emphasis on turning down the sharpness and brightness so that acceptable film grain doesn't become intolerable.

Anyway, sorry for the long ramblings but I've been thinking about this for a while and finally decided to ask you about it after seeing that The Dark Knight did not include any info as to why the aspect ratio kept shifting on the BD. I was a little dismayed that WB would risk getting complaints that the discs were defective because of the ratio shifting, instead of just posting a short disclaimer or visual example before the movie started.

Thanks! Answers? Thoughts?

[Michael.Schinke]

I can't address much in there but I can offer thoughts on your first question. The reason that the studios don't do more to educate the masses about the technical minutiae of film and video is because most people don't really care. When it comes to their entertainment people just want to tune in and drop out. It's the same reason the record industry has been able to continue to sell records that sound like garbage for so many years; because content is king. People are only interested in what gives them a sense of satisfaction. When you sell a product you are selling more than just the physical and technical properties; you are selling a sense of confidence that what you're pushing is the best. With the majority, if you tell them your product is the best and they believe you, that's all they need to know to continue buying it. So for the studios it's more important to gain the public's confidence that their product is as good as they say it is then to spend a lot of time and money educating them as to why.

Besides, it's actually of lesser benefit for them to have an entirely educated customer base. The more people know, the higher their expectations will be and the harder the studios will have to work to please them. The studios just want to make money, and like most any one else, will invest the absolute minimum they need to get the return they desire.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

Discs themselves should include a calibration tool..........

One studio is currently building a test sequence for that, so the project is still in the early preliminary stages. Some of the images revolve around the head and shoulder shots of an attractive blonde model.

[Jeff Kleist]

Sorry if this has been covered already, and I'm not even sure you guys can address it, but I have been wondering why studios haven't been doing more to educate the mainstream consumers on some basic things like aspect ratio, film grain and source quality (common "issues" that newbies bring up on this board all the time).

Been suggesting it for years

The "Blu-ray is awesome!" trailers are there mostly for when the discs are run on in-store TVs, and because they have a sampling of current and upcoming titles that they hope you didnt know about and will now buy

[Dan S.]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Be gentle with me……….I’ll try to keep up.

Oh, no worries there. I have no doubt you are more than fit enough for any riding around. Finishing the races you have mentioned takes a lot more than most riders have in them. Don't forget to update us on events you do in the future, it looks like you hit a lot of the good ones!

Have a great Christmas and New Year!

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

After the success of This Is Cinerama other studios rushed to develop the many different rival formats that followed (CinemaScope, Todd-AO, VistaVision, Technirama, MGM Camera 65 -which became Super Panavision)

Camera 65 equates to UltraPanavision 70. SuperPanavision 70 was spherical, while UP and C65 were shot with a 25% anamorphosis.

RAH

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Been suggesting it for years

The "Blu-ray is awesome!" trailers are there mostly for when the discs are run on in-store TVs, and because they have a sampling of current and upcoming titles that they hope you didnt know about and will now buy

Or they do a great job of showcasing titles that you want to buy and now think will come out but they really have no intention of releasing anytime in the near future. Ahem, Sony and Disney

[Bobby Henderson]

I think the "Blu-ray is great" style promotional trailers are better to include on standard DVD releases.

I haven't been buying or renting any standard DVDs at all ever since purchasing my 80GB PS3 last January. Last week I did see some of The Dark Knight DVD while donating platelets at the Oklahoma Blood Institute. They have TV screens hanging in front of each donor station. It often takes a couple hours to donate 2 units of platelets -long enough to watch most movies. A fellow in the next chair was watching the TDK DVD. I was pleasantly surprised to see a Blu-ray promotional trailer play when the disc was loaded.

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

But my other problem is that these ads give the false impression that Blu-ray offers pristine PQ simply because it's Blu-ray, without addressing the limitations of the source material. This is one reason I think there needs to be something on each disc that includes some education, especially considering so many people are starting to buy players now with the wrong expectation.

I agree something needs to be done. However, the issue of educating the public about all the variables that affect Blu-ray image quality is very complex. I'm sure some of the topics can easily get too technical (and dry) causing the message to go right over the heads of many.

For a great looking Blu-ray movie, you not only need a great quality source. That source has to be acquired into the digital realm using the best methods available and carefully processed using the best methods available. When you get into the specifics of it you'll lose a lot of people.

Some extra features on discs like The Godfather and Baraka dig down a bit under the surface to let viewers know some of the nuts and bolts that sort of thing. It's just difficult to get average people to watch those featurettes.

[Dotpattern]

Originally Posted by Michael.Schinke

The reason that the studios don't do more to educate the masses about the technical minutiae of film and video is because most people don't really care. When it comes to their entertainment people just want to tune in and drop out.

Hi Michael,

I agree, and I disagree. I agree that originally people get their players, get their movies and just want to watch them in spectacular high quality. But I think that a lot of people become confused, and then maybe even disappointed, when they see the black bars at the top and bottom of the screen, or film grain. Then they come here, or other forums, and post their disappointment or confusion when some of these issues could be addressed in very simple and entertaining terms on a BD.

I think the number of "Why black bars?" or "X Movie Needs a New Grainless Transfer" threads started on this site alone is an indicator that people eventually do care. They spent a lot of money, of course they care because they confused "higher clarity" with "no grain." Or for some reason believe that Blu-ray (coupled with a widescreen TV) equates to removing the black bars.

I read on another board a discussion where the consensus was that Blu-ray is only "worth it" if the movie was shot in HD, and that's just nonsense (and I told them so).

Anyway, I can easily imagine an "Blu-ray FAQ" or "About Blu-ray" option on a main menu where the viewer can select from and then watch short educational videos on whatever topic they choose.

I know there's no way to eliminate confusion about BD's and reset expectations entirely, but I think there's enough misinformation out there that a little effort by the studios could help with on each disc.

[MerrickG]

Hey Penton,

Im sure you can comment on these, but any word on two Sony titles:

Real Genius on blu or AT LEAST a special edition dvd.

Last Action Hero- an underrated Arnold film. Special edition is preferred as well.

Also, it was mentioned about a year ago about Real Genius 2 with Val Kilmer returning as a professor. Any news on that front? Id love for it to happen if it can be done right.

Thanks.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Objectivity

I don't know what's closer to human vision, but that didn't play a factor in the original decision to make movies wider.

Back before television, movies were almost all 4:3. When TV became popular, movie studios were afraid they were going to take a hit because people could see the same thing at home as in theaters. They fought back by creating wider aspect ratios to give viewers something they couldn't get at home.

It's kinda like what's happening now with the resurgence of 3D movies. With low-end home setups becoming nicer than many multiplexes, studios are trying to boost revenue with something not available at home.

$520 million for DK domestic tells me that the box office is doing just fine.

[Jeff Kleist]

Real Genius on blu or AT LEAST a special edition dvd.

With the original post art and not that "look mommy I have photoshop!!" monstrosity.

RG2 hasn't moved

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

With the original post art and not that "look mommy I have photoshop!!" monstrosity.

RG2 hasn't moved

Amen to that.

[Anthony P]

You want to get rid of a vegetable go for peas.

I must agree with Jeff. Brussel sprouts can easily be eliminated, but are you nuts? how will I be able to eat wassabi peas without peas (and wassabi peanuts are no where near as good)

[Michael.Schinke]

Originally Posted by Dotpattern

Hi Michael,

I agree, and I disagree. I agree that originally people get their players, get their movies and just want to watch them in spectacular high quality. But I think that a lot of people become confused, and then maybe even disappointed, when they see the black bars at the top and bottom of the screen, or film grain. Then they come here, or other forums, and post their disappointment or confusion when some of these issues could be addressed in very simple and entertaining terms on a BD.

I think the number of "Why black bars?" or "X Movie Needs a New Grainless Transfer" threads started on this site alone is an indicator that people eventually do care. They spent a lot of money, of course they care because they confused "higher clarity" with "no grain." Or for some reason believe that Blu-ray (coupled with a widescreen TV) equates to removing the black bars.

I read on another board a discussion where the consensus was that Blu-ray is only "worth it" if the movie was shot in HD, and that's just nonsense (and I told them so).

Anyway, I can easily imagine an "Blu-ray FAQ" or "About Blu-ray" option on a main menu where the viewer can select from and then watch short educational videos on whatever topic they choose.

I know there's no way to eliminate confusion about BD's and reset expectations entirely, but I think there's enough misinformation out there that a little effort by the studios could help with on each disc.

Good points, but I just don't share your faith. You can only educate people as far as they are willing to learn. I was at BB the other day and a woman asked if the Blu-ray for The Dark Knight was on sale. The sales guy told her that the DVD was, but the Blu ray was not. She asked what she had in her hand, and he informed her that she was holding the Blu-ray. She looked him dead in the face and asked if she could still play the Blu-ray on her regular Dvd player. He told her that she could only play it in a Blu-ray player. She asked him two more times if she could play the disc in her standard player before she either understood or gave up. This was not an old woman, maybe mid forties-early fifties.

You can spend all the money you want to educate people but they have to care enough to want to understand. I think if you're going to spend money to educate anyone it should be the people who sell the products. They can then work with people on an individual basis to give them the right information about the difference between SD and HD. Believe it or not, many people still listen to the "guys on the ground" about this stuff. If we get the right information to the people who can use it, we can eliminate a lot of problems. However, none of it makes any difference if people don't care, and I just don't think the majority of people do. Hell, I think a lot of people only started buying DVD's because, after a while, they really didn't have a lot of choice!

[Anthony P]

You can spend all the money you want to educate people but they have to care enough to want to understand.

agree, I have a friend and we where over to watch a hockey game one day after he just bought his wide screen HDTV. I asked him why all the players where fat, and that he should not have it in stretch mode because it just distorts the image. His response was that he liked it that way because it fills up the screen.

[Penton-Man]

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all.