"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Then watch and listen …………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmXWA5NOlfg

Joffas LOL....and we thought we were protected.

[Bobby Henderson]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

There will be Merchant/Ivory-style productions shot in 3D. It'll take a while, but 3D will beat the "gimmick" perception barrier. It's already started.

How so? Up to this point I've seen no new movie genres being explored with 3D. Children's animated movies, horror movies, science fiction and concert movies have all been done previously with old film-based 3D systems. The bulk of 3D movies due for release this year and next are heavily geared to the CGI animated children's movie genre. Very little 3D live action fare is scheduled for release over the next couple years.

Digital 3D has yet to be used on serious dramas, casual comedies, cops and robbers oriented action movies and lots more. I have a little difficulty wrapping my head around the idea of a 3D western. It's going to take a serious leap of faith on the part of movie studios to take a chance in using 3D on those kinds of movies.

Additionally, RealD and Dolby need to continue working on overcoming the technical problems present with both systems. A high end movie theater like the Moore Warren 14 in Moore OK is stuck with debuting a new 3D movie in a smaller house. They can't place the movie in one of their high seating capacity auditoriums (complete with premium seating balconies) due to the 80' screen size. 70mm has no problem with giant sized screens; the large format was tailor-made for such purposes.

[Stacey Spears]

I thought Jay was at ‘1K’?

Two events had a big impact on 1k. HD DVD going away and New Line merging with WHV. (Or whatever it was) 1k was doing all of the New Line titles until this occured. When that worked moved to GDMX, it did not leave 1k with a lot to do, so Jay left and started the LA office of Giant Interactive.

As far as CSI, seasons one was done by Jay. The BD project kicked into high gear while finishing up my disc.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

However, I think 70mm production would provide more lasting benefits. Not only does it make the theatrical experience better, it makes movies on Blu-ray look better (sharper imagery, richer color) and the movie studio has a far more future proof original negative than something shot on 35mm or worse yet, current HDTV quality "digital."

Very true. Even if no 70mm prints are struck (which would be foolish with dozens of theaters still capable of showing 70mm) we could get better results for Blu-Ray and also for higher resolution hard- and software later on, no matter if that will be for movie theaters or for home theaters. And if properly used it would also make for better digital cinema and 35mm presentations, everybody wins.

But of course a few 70mm prints should also be produced for such a production, the growing number of theaters that get back into showing 70mm properly will be happy to show them

[bbeck]

The director and producer of Baraka say 70mm all the way:

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2009...big_its_t.html (near the end of Ebert's blog post)

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

How so? Up to this point I've seen no new movie genres being explored with 3D.

The genre breakout isn't quite there yet, but you can see the difference in the content. The screen-plane is being approached differently, with the third dimension being used almost exclusively to create depth away from the audience, in many cases. Between this, lower-spectacle genre fence-riders like Coraline and Up, the improved presentation quality (versus analog 3D technologies) and the eyes of the industry on the massive returns 3D screenings are generating, I'm convinced that 3D will expand in scope this time. We'll see if I'm completely deluded.

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

I have a little difficulty wrapping my head around the idea of a 3D western.

Why?! It seems like a pretty obvious choice, to me. If you look at something like Up, it could pretty much be considered a western in cinematic function.

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

A high end movie theater like the Moore Warren 14 in Moore OK is stuck with debuting a new 3D movie in a smaller house. They can't place the movie in one of their high seating capacity auditoriums (complete with premium seating balconies) due to the 80' screen size. 70mm has no problem with giant sized screens; the large format was tailor-made for such purposes.

Is this a realistic issue today? In the commercial marketplace these days, there are a lot more theatres (in malls, etc.) with multiple small (often twinned) auditoriums than with high-capacity, large-screen rooms. Meanwhile, if 70mm can't put butts in seats because no one is familiar with it, who cares how many (empty) seats are in the larger room?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Two events had a big impact on 1k. HD DVD going away and New Line merging with WHV. (Or whatever it was) 1k was doing all of the New Line titles until this occured. When that worked moved to GDMX, it did not leave 1k with a lot to do, so Jay left and started the LA office of Giant Interactive.

As far as CSI, seasons one was done by Jay. The BD project kicked into high gear while finishing up my disc.

I understand now, I had missed his career move.
Well anyway, he’s got a good reputation among those in the same profession and I think he has over 10 yrs. of real working experience between DVD and high-def packaged media, so, you picked a good guy to do your stuff.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

The engines should be limited to 2 cylinders, any configuration accepted.

This proposal, I'm curious about.

... why?

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

This proposal, I'm curious about.

... why?

600cc x 4 cylinders puts them a huge leap up from 125s, far beyond the output of 250s, and too close to the 800s.

I dont remember the weight limits for Moto 2, but a highly tuned 600, at a much lower weight equal a more compact package, which equals better braking and a MUCH more flickable and agile machine that could very likely rival Moto GP for lap times. Tracks like the Sachsenring and Laguna Seca (already inappropiate for Moto GP) would see the 600s beating the 800s.

Mick Doohan, after the first race at Sachsenring said something to the effect of....This is a 250 track. We dont belong here. You are always waiting and waiting to open the throttle, and never open it fully.

Remember the NSR V2s? On the tight tracks they would climb up the arses of the V4s on the brakes, entering corners, and pass them (handily) midcorner. It wasnt until the exit and straights that the V4s could stretch their legs and put some distance between them

I once raced at a track in Nevada on an R1 (1000cc). The longest straight afforded a top speed of 140ish when you got the entry just right. Thats only 3rd gear...and not even all of it. So yeah, waaaaiiiting to put the power down sucks.

There is something to be said for a tiny, light and nimble chasis. And, when coupled with an inline or V4 600cc lump, you are creating a fairly potent package. Two cylinders will pace them well and keep costs down.

EDIT: 2008, Laguna Seca, Casey Stoner Pole position lap top speed was 162Mph. Pretty slow for a bike that will do 210 Mph. The more turns a track has, the worse it gets for the 800s and the greater the advantage for the 600s.

[Bobby Henderson]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

The genre breakout isn't quite there yet, but you can see the difference in the content. The screen-plane is being approached differently, with the third dimension being used almost exclusively to create depth away from the audience, in many cases. Between this, lower-spectacle genre fence-riders like Coraline and Up, the improved presentation quality (versus analog 3D technologies) and the eyes of the industry on the massive returns 3D screenings are generating, I'm convinced that 3D will expand in scope this time. We'll see if I'm completely deluded.

While 3D composition is being treated with a little more subtlety, there's still plenty of moments in new digital 3D movies where objects come poking out of the screen at viewers. Even if 100% of the 3D composition is happening behind the screen plane, the audience is still stuck wearing the 3D glasses.

Overall, digital 3D dramatically increases the amusement park slant to the movie-going experience. Some movie theaters are considering adding D-Box seat motion system to add to the effect. This is fine for some genres of movies, but it just isn't going to work on everything.

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Is this a realistic issue today? In the commercial marketplace these days, there are a lot more theatres (in malls, etc.) with multiple small (often twinned) auditoriums than with high-capacity, large-screen rooms.

Mall theaters are obsolete. The stadium seated theater building craze first took hold in 1995. Since then the vast majority of all new movie theaters have been built as standalone buildings. Shopping malls stink at accommodating the tall ceiling heights required for true stadium seating. Many theaters built over the last 14 years, particularly those in highly populated markets, have included giant sized screens in their largest auditoriums. These screens are big enough to show off the splendor of 70mm, but are too big for digital 3D to work properly. Digital 3D can't take advantage of the much higher seat counts.

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Meanwhile, if 70mm can't put butts in seats because no one is familiar with it, who cares how many (empty) seats are in the larger room?

70mm can put butts in the seats if it is marketed properly and there's actually some true 65mm photographed feature film content to show. That's not difficult to accomplish. Unfortunately, Hollywood studios just don't want to bother. They simply prefer to throw a LOT more money into 2K digital projection and digital 3D.

[Doctorossi]

Again, you make strong points, Bobby, but I don't think they have much to do with mine. What I was talking about has little to do with the potential that 70mm has, nor with the more gimmicky directions that 3D could be taken in by exhibitors.

My argument was that roughly a year-and-a-half hence, when Chris Nolan's new movie is likely to be released, I don't think that advertising (in the tradtional way) that it was shot and/or will be presented in large-format would have the same kind of commercial impact that could be had if they were, instead, able to advertise that it was screening in 3D. Your comments about Hollywood's unwillingness to pick up the mantle of 70mm and exploit its advantage only reinforce my point. I'm not talking about the product's potential to impress; I'm talking about marketability in the (more or less) current environment.

I think it's an extremely safe bet that more potential moviegoers today know (roughly) what 3D is and perceive it to be something 'special' or 'premium' than can say the same about 70mm. Thankfully, we have people like Nolan in a position to help the cause, but if his goal is to have a surefire premium-presentation bullet-point with which to advertise his film (and I'm not saying that is his goal) and he choses 70mm over 3D for this task, he is definitely swimming against the current.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

Mall theaters are obsolete.

Yes, and 35mm theatres with mono sound were obsolete after the B-chain replacement push that accompanied Star Wars, but that doesn't mean they didn't still saturate the marketplace. While most theatres built from the mid-90's on were indeed stadium-style designs, their creation was not coincident with the spontaneous disappearance or shuttering of most extant theatres.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

600cc x 4 cylinders puts them a huge leap up from 125s, far beyond the output of 250s, and too close to the 800s.

I figured your reasoning to be along those lines. Personally, I'm not a fan of engine design-limiting rules, beyond something simple, universal and arbitrary, such as capacity. I figured the limited budget anyone would be willing to throw at a support-class effort would keep the engine-potential of the class in check.

That said, I must also admit to being a 250s, high corner-speed design-philosophy freak (hence my falling head over heels for Il Piccolo Bambino from his 125s debut) who might not mind so much if the middle class were able to show the benefits of 'light and flickable' a little bit more by giving the big boys a run for the lap times- not that Dorna would let such a "problem" last very long.

[Bobby Henderson]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

I think it's an extremely safe bet that more potential moviegoers today know (roughly) what 3D is and perceive it to be something 'special' or 'premium' than can say the same about 70mm.

Not everyone likes 3D. Believe it or not some people actually hate it. Roger Ebert has recently been firing salvos over the fad. 3D simply is not a one size fits all gimmick that will work for any kind of movie.

You're also continuing to assume something better than a half-baked effort has been made at all in supporting 70mm over the last 4 decades. It hasn't. 70mm hasn't been given a credible chance to prove itself to the general movie-going public. The general public doesn't know its collective butt from a hole in the ground on judging 70mm, much less comparing its appeal to 3D.

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Yes, and 35mm theatres with mono sound were obsolete after the B-chain replacement push that accompanied Star Wars, but that doesn't mean they didn't still saturate the marketplace.

Mall-based theaters aren't saturating the marketplace at all. Such theaters are a shrinking minority of the overall number of multiplex sites in the United States. Mall theaters have lower ceilings, small auditoriums and low seat counts. The only saving grace for mall theaters is the high foot traffic counts within the mall. Unfortunately, that is often canceled out by high rent/lease costs that come with being located in a mall.

Strip shopping centers (like where you typically find Target, Best Buy, etc.) have seriously wounded the traditional shopping mall business model. Outdoor "lifestyle center" malls and mixed use office, living and retail developments are the newest thing. The indoor shopping mall concept is an aging relic with increasing negative issues. Some malls have been forced to enact curfews to reduce numbers of loitering teens and teen-oriented violence. Loss prevention efforts to fight shoplifting are more difficult in a mall environment.

I expect more theaters to migrate out of malls over the next couple years as a possible impending crisis in commercial real estate causes a number of shopping mall companies to fail.

Exhibitors have found they can build bigger and better theaters as well as make more money in a standalone configuration. They can design the building and land site around it to accommodate restaurants and other shops if they like.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

Not everyone likes 3D. Believe it or not some people actually hate it.

What's your point?

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

You're also continuing to assume something better than a half-baked effort has been made at all in supporting 70mm over the last 4 decades. It hasn't.

No! I'm not. Have you even been reading my replies? You're continuing to misunderstand me. I know *full well* that 70mm hasn't been supported. And that fact forms the very basis of my point! The movie-going public today "knows" 3D, but they do not "know" 70mm. Thus, an advertisement that reads "3D!" is going to mean more to them than one that reads "70mm!" I'm not saying that's how it should be; just that that's how it is.

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

70mm hasn't been given a credible chance to prove itself to the general movie-going public. The general public doesn't know its collective butt from a hole in the ground on judging 70mm, much less comparing its appeal to 3D.

My point, exactly.

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

Mall-based theaters aren't saturating the marketplace at all. Such theaters are a shrinking minority of the overall number of multiplex sites in the United States. Mall theaters have lower ceilings, small auditoriums and low seat counts. The only saving grace for mall theaters is the high foot traffic counts within the mall. Unfortunately, that is often canceled out by high rent/lease costs that come with being located in a mall.

Please forget I ever used the word "mall". I was trying to identify pre-stadium small-auditorium multiplexes, of which there are many still in service. Yes, their number is shrinking every day, next to that of the modern stadium theatres, but they still represent a large portion of the market. Not a lot of them are actually in malls, but you should be able to understand the kind of theatres I'm talking about. Theatres in malls are simply one example.

[Jeff Kleist]

Good to see you max, hit your email when you get a chance

[Penton-Man]

My PM box has been inundated this morning with numerous inquiries as to the accuracy of this post…………
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...97&postcount=1

most specifically, and of pertinent importance to fans of this classic being the statement -“To be released just before Christmas with new extras IF it says on schedule I'm told.”

The fact of the matter is, LoA is not even penciled in to be released “just before Christmas” or any time this year for that matter.
So please, do not get your collective hopes up for that floated street date of around Christmas time this year.
Aint gonna happen.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

It's been a long week and I did not even attend NAB.

And I was going to ask you if you had seen the ‘red ray’ demo clip they showed in Vegas and what your opinion was regarding whether they had truly stressed the codec with a lot of completely random input data such as confetti….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...tti#post690593

or a waterfall, or leaves on trees bouncing in the wind, etc., as I never saw their demo and only heard second-hand about it.
My goodness, are the Lake Forrest folk promoting the idea that they have produced a codec to distribute “4k quality” motion pictures (of at least 2 hr. in length) on a DVD?

If so, I would imagine that some high ranking executives from Toshiba are literally bumping into and tripping over each other while running onto the corporate jet with very, very fat red suitcases. Heck.....if that was a truly viable venture, I think that Amir might even come out of retirement to get in on that action if he could.

[Jeff Kleist]

I haven't seen the RED demo, but a box costing $1000 that can do 4k in 10mbps at quality (which in itself is rather unbelieveable) is a dubious claim at best. Yes, I'm sure you can encode a 4K image at 10mbps that doesn't look like garbage, but as penton pointed out, the question must be asked how much of that footage was "challenging" like confetti

So far as I know, Red-Ray is supposed to be used to transport dailies and such, and is not intended for commercial distribution. Though I'm sure they're interested in the possibilities, or in grabbing as many headlines as they can

[aramis109]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

And I was going to ask you if you had seen the ‘red ray’ demo clip they showed in Vegas and what your opinion was regarding whether they had truly stressed the codec with a lot of completely random input data such as confetti….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...tti#post690593

or a waterfall, or leaves on trees bouncing in the wind, etc., as I never saw their demo and only heard second-hand about it.
My goodness, are the Lake Forrest folk promoting the idea that they have produced a codec to distribute “4k quality” motion pictures (of at least 2 hr. in length) on a DVD?

If so, I would imagine that some high ranking executives from Toshiba are literally bumping into and tripping over each other while running onto the corporate jet with very, very fat red suitcases. Heck.....if that was a truly viable venture, I think that Amir might even come out of retirement to get in on that action if he could.

So... it's safe to say your opinion on the Red Ray camera and compression algorithms (and all of the stuff that goes into it that's way over my head) is that it's been overhyped? I've read a little about it but was hoping for an opinion of someone more "in the know" about such things. Seemed like a "too good to be true" technology.

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

I haven't seen the RED demo, but a box costing $1000 that can do 4k in 10mbps at quality (which in itself is rather unbelieveable) is a dubious claim at best. Yes, I'm sure you can encode a 4K image at 10mbps that doesn't look like garbage, but as penton pointed out, the question must be asked how much of that footage was "challenging" like confetti

So far as I know, Red-Ray is supposed to be used to transport dailies and such, and is not intended for commercial distribution. Though I'm sure they're interested in the possibilities, or in grabbing as many headlines as they can

Ah... see it makes a lot more sense for dailies. They're definitely going for sensationalism though.