"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

PT did some great work

Pacific Title did a lot of great work.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Grubert

If you have no idea, then you shouldn't pass judgment on it as you are doing.

...not -quite- sure you read my posts carefully enough to make that snipe, but, hey, thanks for the list... There's some good ones in there, brings back fond memories.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I think you just answered the question for me.

Uh, Fatburger then?

Do me a favour, as I'm unlikely to get there any time soon, tell me how this place is: http://umamiburger.com/

The idea is pretty spectacular... I think LA food is pretty terrible for the most part, but dammit, best burgers on the planet.

Sorry to hear about Pac Title, Penton, I'm sure you've got friends and/or at least colleagues there. FWIW, everybody I know up here is actually doing a wee bit better than we were a few months back, things are picking up despite the dollar fluctuation. It go super ugly in Toronto long before it hit you guys, with anything that was staged up here sliding over to Van or Montreal if it was staying north of the border at all...

Haven't heard if David C got his wish to shoot from home: http://www.thestar.com/article/611439 - any news on your end?

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I’ll tell you.
They won the internet fanboy war but, they were crushed in the real world format war at the end of the day........including jet fuel from Japan to L.A.
To this day, I wonder how many thousands of dollars Amir cost early adopters with his repeated online assurances that “HD DVD will be here for a long time”.

And how many thousands of dollars that Bill Hunt and Jeff, etc. saved audio video enthusiasts who trusted in their judgment from the beginning. That is nothing to take for granted given these hard economic times.

I specifically remember the very long "pep speech" posts Amir would give periodically to the HD DVD supporters...particularly for those few who were becoming obviously disillusioned with HD DVD's long term viability.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

I specifically remember the very long "pep speech" posts Amir would give periodically to the HD DVD supporters...particularly for those few who were becoming obviously disillusioned with HD DVD's long term viability.

It was pretty obivious when they started to factor the PS3 in and out of their numbers for sales comparisons that the writing was on the wall.

Remember how they used to brag about all the SA players they sold and how those equated to real software sales. Their attach rate was 'excellent' and BD's was horrible. With BD software selling more ever since the PS3 release all their numbers proved was that it was hard to track how many PS3 buyers were using their system for BD playback.

I am still amazed at how much effort Sony put into the PS3's BD capability.

The other thing that really P'dMO was how the HD DVD group was trying to buy off the tech media with give aways and other spiffs. Both sides were guilty of it, but it sure seemed like they made inroads with the illiterate tech-beat writers like Don Lindich and others. Lindich was claiming HD DVD was the winner right up to the point HD DVD pulled the plug. It seemed like the same FUD was showing up in the tech columns of newspapers. Profiles, BD+ and other things... They were basically infomercials why HD DVD was GOOD and BD was BAD. Like HD DVD was so complete that they could never alter anything within the spec. At least the BD group was forthcoming that some features were not implemented.

Good enough... sorry not for me.

[Bill Hunt]

Originally Posted by Grubert

If you have no idea, then you shouldn't pass judgment on it as you are doing.

Some nuggets:

- Dual-layer discs are science-fiction

- The Samsung BD-P1000 won't play dual-layer discs

- Lionsgate are now encoding in VC-1 (true) - therefore (OMG!) they might be preparing to support HD DVD!

- Ditto for Disney

- BD+ may brick your player if a pirate has used the same model you have

- VC-1 can give excellent results with 10 Mbps

- Profile 1.1 discs (maybe) won't play on 1.0 players

- Profile 2.0 discs (maybe) won't play on 1.0 or 1.1 players

- 30 GB is good enough [Transformers comes out without lossless audio] Hey, who needs lossless audio!

Need I continue?

You forgot... Blu-ray scratch coating will NEVER work! Blu-rays will be more easily damaged than DVDs! (Of course, it's actually the reverse... Blu-rays have proven MORE durable than DVDs in rental situations.)

Also... DVD/HD-DVD dual-sided discs and 6 or 8-layer HD-DVDs are the answer to all HD-DVD space concerns. (Completely forgetting the fact that the DVD Forum couldn't even get DVD-18 discs to work consistantly, and many DVD-18 titles that WERE issued now suffer from serious bonding problems.)

[Bill Hunt]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I made the call in 2005.

I remember "pestering" Bill at ComicCon 2006 after the Bits' panel with an impassioned plea why BD was the way to go, because at that point he had commented on HD DVD's better launch than what the BDA had done up to that point (which was pretty weak, sputtering out of the gate). (Interestingly we also talked with a couple BDA reps there...did you know The Davinci Code was supposed to be the first BD50?) As far as the format war went Bill was fair and balanced, and listened to every side. He gave Toshiba & company the benefit of the doubt and didn't pull any punches when BD failed to impress.

You know, HD-DVD DID launch fairly well, and I said so at the time. Unfortunately, that was about as good as things got for that format. Meanwhile, the initial Blu-ray launch was a disaster, and that first Samsung player was just a mess. Not to mention, there were early BD titles that were just terrible. The fact is, HD-DVD's launch forced a sort of rushed pre-launch for BD about 6 months before they were really ready. But when December rolled around, Blu-ray's relaunch (which included the PS3) changed the landscape completely. The larger problem for HD-DVD was that the format NEVER had the support of the industry, either on the hardware or the software side. The hardware industry was almost completely behind Blu-ray, while on the software side, a majority backed Blu-ray. The only studios Toshiba was ever really able to hang onto were the ones they paid a lot of money to stay exclusive. And on the hardware side, once Toshiba started slashing prices so drastically so quickly, it was clear to me that they were NEVER going to win the support of any other manufacturer. After all, the whole reason the hardware industry wanted a new format was because they were making so little money on DVD hardware anymore. So now here was Toshiba wanting them to sell their new high-def players for under $200? No way. It didn't take a rocket scientist to know that this was a house of cards Toshiba couldn't keep stable for very long... even with Microsoft's backing/blessing. The seeds of HD-DVD's demise were there from the very beginning, in my opinion. It was really just a matter of time.

[Doctorossi]

Dredging up all this crap again just reminds me of how glad I am that Blu-ray won.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Dredging up all this crap again just reminds me of how glad I am that Blu-ray won.

Exactly... The HD DVD group and their viral marketing group talked a good game but their b^llsh!t was eventually exposed. Hell some of the diehards were still spouting the production yield of BD50s recently. Funny I have been purchasing BD50s since they were available and I have never had a playback issue. Does anyone remember how some HD DVD loonies were advocating boiling problem discs?

Job titles like Head HD DVD Evangelist? Really, did they expect him to be taken seriously with a job title like that? Once I heard his job title, I did not believe a single syllable he uttered. Everything was always spun with a slant of why HD DVD superior. At least he fully embraced and embodied his job title. And I think most consumers have a negative view of evangelists. Hell why not just call him Chief Poobah of the Order of Water Buffalo, Utah Chapter because that sounds about as realistic as Head HD DVD Evangelist.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Job titles like Head HD DVD Evangelist? Really, did they expect him to be taken seriously with a job title like that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_evangelist

Again, do you prefer the nomenclature "insider"? Is it the methods that upset you, or the subject that was being espoused?

I'm not for a second exusing the so-called other side, but are you all sticking with the story that "they" told lies, and that the Blu side (post-PS3 launch) was rockin' it from the get go?

Hey, Bill... welcome back... Guess you didn't read my novel, huh?

K, I'm hereby sick of defending arguments that weren't my own, all to show that there was, in my opinion, plenty of jockeying/obfuscation/shenanigans to go on both sides, and that, pathetically, these type of things continue to persist...

[Tok]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_evangelist

Again, do you prefer the nomenclature "insider"?

Hey, Bill... welcome back... Guess you didn't read my novel, huh?

But to give someone that job title outright

I understand the purpose, but in the end most people feel that evangelists belittle anyones views who don't agree with their own. Which is what Amir did exactly on the AVSForum while facetiously trying to pass himself off as unbiased for a period.

And my main point it was a rather arogant job title for someone to actually have. Not only arogant, but d@mn comical if they expected him to be taken seriously. Heck, he is still trying to live down that BD50 is science fiction and it breaks the laws of physics. It is just too bad that AVS got way too comfy with MSFT and Toshiba and they still protect him and the other HD DVD disciples like it was some holy crusade.

What I find really funny is if AVS was truly not biased they would have archived many of the initial threads when Toshiba finally closed shop. But instead they deleted them all, like a spoiled little boy who got mad and decided to take his ball home with him. I was there posting and it was too GD funny that these disciples could not and still can't accept the fact that Toshiba and Microsoft led them to the slaughter with lies right up to the end. Did they honestly believe that HD DVD could survive with two exclusive major studios to Blu's five? I mean really. How GD dumb were these people? Amir said its going to be okay. Paramount and Universal are still towing the line. I like movies X, Y and Z from these guys better than A, B and C from them anyway.

Any reasonable logical consumer could see that Blu most likely was going to win. The only hiccup in the road was the surprise Paramount move, but thankfully that finally stirred the BDA to action. For that year-long Paramount contract we all agonized over it was only about four months after the ink dried that HD DVD closed shop.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_evangelist

Again, do you prefer the nomenclature "insider"? Is it the methods that upset you, or the subject that was being espoused?

I'm not for a second exusing the so-called other side, but are you all sticking with the story that "they" told lies, and that the Blu side (post-PS3 launch) was rockin' it from the get go?

Hey, Bill... welcome back... Guess you didn't read my novel, huh?

K, I'm hereby sick of defending arguments that weren't my own, all to show that there was, in my opinion, plenty of jockeying/obfuscation/shenanigans to go on both sides, and that, pathetically, these type of things continue to persist...

Sorry, maybe I missed your post on it, but exactly what were the "jockeying/obfuscation/shenanigans" on the Blu-ray side and how do they continue to persist? Grubert's list and others have been very specific on the issues, lies, and individuals on the HD DVD side. I would like to hear the specifics you may have for the Blu-ray side.

[coolmilo]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Dredging up all this crap again just reminds me of how glad I am that Blu-ray won.

Heck, with all this depressing format war discussion going on...perhaps Penton's favorite SuicideGirl might start posting again.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Exactly... The HD DVD group and their viral marketing group talked a good game but their b^llsh!t was eventually exposed.

I'm not glad that Blu-ray won because of any misinformation or war crimes on one side or the other; I'm glad it won because it's a better format.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Sorry, maybe I missed your post on it, but exactly what were the "jockeying/obfuscation/shenanigans" on the Blu-ray side and how do they continue to persist? Grubert's list and others have been very specific on the issues, lies, and individuals on the HD DVD side. I would like to hear the specifics you may have for the Blu-ray side.

Exactly.

I seem to remember most of the rhetoric that Blu bois were spewing had more to do with facts than pseudo-science.

We usually used the argument,
1. We have up to 50GB,
2. We have a higher maximum datarate, which means
3. Less compression, better quality and
4. Lossless audio can be a universal standard, not a special bonus feature on some titles.

To which the HD DVD disciples responded - un uh, bitrate is meaningless, lossless does not matter, we have PiP special features, we have internet features, etc

BD caught up and now we have the best of both worlds. New types of special features and the best audio and video optical format created.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Did they honestly believe that HD DVD could survive with two exclusive major studios to Blu's five? I mean really. How GD dumb were these people? Amir said its going to be okay. Paramount and Universal are still towing the line. I like movies X, Y and Z from these guys better than A, B and C from them anyway.

My favorite line always was, "My XA2 upscaling is so good and makes everything look virtually like HD that I don't need Sony, Disney, Fox, and Lionsgate."

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Bill Hunt

You forgot... Blu-ray scratch coating will NEVER work! Blu-rays will be more easily damaged than DVDs! (Of course, it's actually the reverse... Blu-rays have proven MORE durable than DVDs in rental situations.)

Yes, Blu-rays are more scratch-resistant, but Netflix reported a high breakage rate than DVD. Sony was reported to be studying the problem with them according to the original report. Did anything ever come out of this?

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by Bill Hunt

... And on the hardware side, once Toshiba started slashing prices so drastically so quickly, it was clear to me that they were NEVER going to win the support of any other manufacturer. After all, the whole reason the hardware industry wanted a new format was because they were making so little money on DVD hardware anymore. So now here was Toshiba wanting them to sell their new high-def players for under $200? No way. ...

Yet, the latest Walmart Blu-ray player is now down to $128.

Was that price drop on the other hardware vendor's radar screens? I'm not bashing anyone - just curious how much hurt this may cause in a race to the bottom.

[cjamescook]

Originally Posted by coolmilo

Heck, with all this depressing format war discussion going on...perhaps Penton's favorite SuicideGirl might start posting again.

Whatever happened to her, anyway?

[Tok]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

My favorite line always was, "My XA2 upscaling is so good and makes everything look virtually like HD that I don't need Sony, Disney, Fox, and Lionsgate."

Too funny! Like the XA2 is so intelligent that it can magically recreate the roughly 1.7Mpixels that are missing from a true HD source versus a SD DVD source. And do it without introducing any other errors. The XA2 slogan should have been, "Blowing smoke up your ....!"