"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Doctorossi]

Hey, Foxy friends- with so many other territories popping up, when the hell is Tora! Tora! Tora! arriving in North America?

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Respondin via my iPhone (busy day)…
http://www.sonypictures.com/homevide...blog/?offset=1

Glad to hear that Harryhausen gave his input!

[Oliver K]

In for a change very good screenshot news the new Gladiator Blu-Ray looks to be much improved, so I hope it is OK to post a link to screencaps of both the old and the new version:

http://comparescreenshots.slicx.com/...8257/picture:4

I have watched this so often that I was pretty sure I would not want this Blu-Ray but for such an effort I think that Paramount deserves a purchase

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I received several PM’s from folks heading on down to San Diego tomorrow for Comic-Con and as to whether or not on Thursday at 1:00 – 2:00 in Hall H at the SALT presentation, if this fine lady would indeed be in attendance like at the premiere at Grauman’s Chinese Theater earlier this week….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twgTzEchvMw
The *official* word at this particular moment in time is








no comment

….but you know me with hotties.

For those whom did not comprise the “7,000 excited” fans in attendance, this is a quick summary…
http://www.ivillage.com/angelina-jol...nce/1-a-229950

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

In for a change very good screenshot news the new Gladiator Blu-Ray looks to be much improved, so I hope it is OK to post a link to screencaps of both the old and the new version:

http://comparescreenshots.slicx.com/...8257/picture:4

I have watched this so often....

In the cinema?

Interesting difference in the digital color correction as the 2010 version appears more ‘contemporary’ and not just the obvious facial tone difference but, the background travertine stone architecture of the Roman Coliseum too. Is that color grade difference truly accurate to what people are seeing during real time viewing on their calibrated (by a trusted ISF calibrator) displays at home, or is that more screenshot nuttiness displayed on the internet?

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In the cinema?

In the cinema, as a DVD, as a Superbit DVD, in (open matte) HD, I often used the Superbit DVD for demonstration purposes. I only peeked into the previous Blu-Ray though as it looked significantly worse than the HD version I had seen previously, except for the additional shots.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In the cinema?

Interesting difference in the digital color correction as the 2010 version appears more ‘contemporary’ and not just the obvious facial tone difference but, the background travertine stone architecture of the Roman Coliseum too. Is that color grade difference truly accurate to what people are seeing during real time viewing on their calibrated (by a trusted ISF calibrator) displays at home, or is that more screenshot nuttiness displayed on the internet?

The color is indeed completely different and I cannot say why that is so I hope that this was because of input from the DOP or director. Would be interesting to hear about that from somebody involved in the production of this new disc.

As I will be getting the Blu-Ray myself I will be able to comment on the color later (I have several displays that track D65 rather well) but judging by the other 5 cap comparisons there is no push in one direction that I would chalk up to screencaps gone wrong.

One thing is very obvious though - there is more visible detail, grain and no distracting halos - very nice!

After Sony with The Fifth Element now it is Paramount that shows other studios how things are done. I wish Universal and Fox would do the same for Spartacus and Patton.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

I wish Universal and Fox would do the same for Spartacus and Patton.

I am not a religious man, but...


AMEN.

[Doctorossi]

Penton,

Now, having seen Inception, I'm going to revise my presumptive tagline:

What if The Matrix was interesting?

to the new final version:

[Show spoiler]What if The Matrix was fun?*

*

[Show spoiler]Which is not to say that Inception wasn't interesting, mind you.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Penton,

Now, having seen Inception, I'm going to revise my presumptive tagline:

Seems everyone has a tagline these days…
http://marketsaw.blogspot.com/2010/0...n-made-in.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

After Sony with The Fifth Element now it is Paramount that shows other studios how things are done.

Paramount and a confluence of other outside filmmaking influencing factors.
The Fifth Element upgrade was solely spearheaded and implemented by one guy within the Sony Pictures Home Entertainment organization…..well, actually two (within).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

In the cinema, as a DVD, as a Superbit DVD, in (open matte) HD, I often used the Superbit DVD for demonstration purposes. I only peeked into the previous Blu-Ray though as it looked significantly worse than the HD version I had seen previously, except for the additional shots.

The color is indeed completely different and I cannot say why that is so I hope that this was because of input from the DOP or director. Would be interesting to hear about that from somebody involved in the production of this new disc.

As I will be getting the Blu-Ray myself I will be able to comment on the color later (I have several displays that track D65 rather well) but judging by the other 5 cap comparisons there is no push in one direction that I would chalk up to screencaps gone wrong.

Well, as “enthusiasts” we must debate and investigate this discrepancy, no? because it seems to me that “enthusiasts” should be just as concerned with inaccurate colors (or their portrayal as such by screenshot science) as they are with other types of digital manipulation.

Let’s not sweep this under the rug.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

The color is indeed completely different and I cannot say why that is so I hope that this was because of input from the DOP or director.

Ah, now Oliver, that would be a compromise of the principles of screenshot scientists/film purists because such a color change would be, in essence, a revision or a redux of the theatrical presentation!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

The color is indeed completely different and I cannot say why that is so I hope that this was because of input from the DOP or director. Would be interesting to hear about that from somebody involved in the production of this new disc.

Yes, it would be very interesting to hear from the studio if the Director or the DOP sat in on the actual color correction sessions…..if indeed there was such a thing rather than just a ‘one-light’ color grading (think, set it and forget it) of the film source.

Otherwise, I guess you’re left with two alternatives…
1. Screenshot science malfeasance/ineptitude

or -

2. Accurate screenshot science depiction of a motion picture demonstrating what I like to call *creative contemporary color correction* for the Blu-ray rendition.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Paramount and a confluence of other outside filmmaking influencing factors.
The Fifth Element upgrade was solely spearheaded and implemented by one guy within the Sony Pictures Home Entertainment organization…..well, actually two (within).

Some people will never be satisfied (from you know where):

Some people in this thread compared this to The Fifth Element. I beg to differ. The Fifth Element remaster was "ok" at best, nowhere in the same league as this remaster. The Fifth Element remaster still has DNR and EE. There's a Dutch (?) Blu-Ray of The Fifth Element out there which is clearly better in some aspects (finer grain, no EE, no DNR), but unfortunately it has blown out highlights and weird colors. So I'm still waiting for the ultimate Fifth Element Blu-Ray...

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Ah, now Oliver, that would be a compromise of the principles of screenshot scientists/film purists because such a color change would be, in essence, a revision or a redux of the theatrical presentation!

Well it is either this or all the other presentations were wrong

I certainly would not be able to tell you though how it looked theatrically other then that there was a marked change between scenes that looked very warm and others that had a strong bluish cast.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, as “enthusiasts” we must debate and investigate this discrepancy, no? because it seems to me that “enthusiasts” should be just as concerned with inaccurate colors (or their portrayal as such by screenshot science) as they are with other types of digital manipulation.

Let’s not sweep this under the rug.

This is a difficult topic as clearly halos of the kind that were in the original Gladiator Blu-Ray and also the absence of grain and high frequency detail are obvious even when viewing the disc by itself. It is hard though to comment on the colors and contrast when one does not know how they were supposed to look and I can admit that I almost never do. That's why I find the discussions about the Blu-Rays of Bram Stoker's Dracula and The Godfather trilogy rather tiring.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Paramount and a confluence of other outside filmmaking influencing factors.
The Fifth Element upgrade was solely spearheaded and implemented by one guy within the Sony Pictures Home Entertainment organization…..well, actually two (within).

You know about the inner workings in both cases more than I do so I will take your word for it. In the end we still got a new release from Paramount and if with Fox and Universal it will be via a similar confluence of factors I will be happy with it, too. Although I strongly doubt that two deceased directors will have the same pull that the still very much alive and vocal Ridley Scott might have had in this re-release.

Of course what leaves Sony ahead of the other studios is that for quite a long time I have not watched one Sony Blu-Ray title that I thought could have been substantially better - I can't say the same for the other big studios or Criterion.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Some people will never be satisfied (from you know where) [...]

Do you find it good style to talk negatively about my post behind my back in another forum? If you don't like my post, why don't you complain about it in the thread where I posted it?

Anyway, since you don't seem to agree with me, let me show you 2 screenshots (oh no, not screenshots again !?!?):

http://pic.phyrefile.com/t/th/themik...920x1080.1.png
http://pic.phyrefile.com/a/an/anonym...920x1080.1.png

Look at the very clear signs of DNR and EE in the remastered USA/AU release of The Fifth Element. It's easy to see e.g. in the font "QUIT SMOKING". Or look at the typical look of EE'd grain. Then look at how EE is completely missing in the Nordic Blu-Ray. The Nordic Blu-Ray looks quite over the top yellowish, though, so it's not perfect, either. But if you ignore the color difference, the Nordic Blu-Ray is much superior to the USA/AU remaster. If you don't trust the screenshot of the USA/AU Blu-Ray, just fire up your media player and check for yourself.

P.S: According to some inside sources, the master used for the Nordic release is the only one which is currently approved by both the director and the studio.

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by madshi

P.S: According to some inside sources, the master used for the Nordic release is the only one which is currently approved by both the director and the studio.

What studio would that be - Gaumont?

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

What studio would that be - Gaumont?

I don't really know for sure, but I would guess so. There was a thread on another forum where a person posted who had contacts to the people doing the Nordic Blu-Ray encoding. He claimed that the master used for the Nordic release was the only master approved by both the studio and the director. He didn't know anything about the master used by Sony, though.

To my eyes the Sony Blu-Ray looks like a processed (DNR+EE) older 2K master, while the Nordic Blu-Ray looks like coming from a new 4K scan. The old Gladiator Blu-Ray has a somewhat similar look to the Sony Fifth Element (the old Gladiator BD looks worse, though). And the new Gladiator Blu-Ray has a somewhat similar look to the Nordic Fifth Element (here the new Gladiator BD looks better, IMHO).

The new Gladiator Blu-Ray looks fantastic to me. At least in terms of detail, film-like look etc. I don't have an opinion on the colors, because I simply can't judge how the director intended them to look like.