"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by cjamescook

Very nice accomplishment.

Scale it up, acquire movies using the required form, and you have a real 3D format that will make the public bite.

Side note: It also reminds me of the 3D projections used in Logan's Run here which attempted to use true holograms in the rotating cylinders in the interrogation scene. (Yeah, I know, the movie looked good, but had a lot of holes, even to a teenager back in 1976.)

I *always* thought it looked cheesy. People complain about cartoony CGI, but what about the toy-like miniature work of Logan's Run? The fact that it won Best Visual Effects shows you just how much the industry was in ruins before Star Wars and ILM, along with Close Encounters of the Third Kind in 1977 revolutionized VFX.

On that: I think Logan's Run won on the strength of Albert Whitlock's amazing matte paintings.

[Geoff D]

Re: Gladiator. Penton, did you agonise this much over the presentation of Alien in the 2003 Quadrilogy DVD set? Ridley Scott changed the timing for the 2002 faux-Director's Cut, but it also got carried over to the theatrical cut...

[sharkshark]

(god, I'm clearly masochistic for getting involved here)

His point, I believe, is that those that agonized about other colour timing issues have, in his words, "conveniently" ignored for the most part this pretty radical departure from the other palate. So, I think fundamentally Penton doesn't give a damn one way or another, but is looking for consistency.

Now, whether he's correct that this was ignored is another issue entirely, naturally. Taking his point at face value, however, the issue in your test case would be whether people who ignored the changes to Alien (presumably carried over to the new BD set) continue to ignore it, or that raised issues at the time and now forget about it.

But, yeah. Just making sure everybody's talking using the same terminology.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

...and what was Grover using to determine the original look? Most prints fade almost as quickly as memory, it seems...

Well, obviously a “print” in which the color neither significantly faded nor turned in the context you’re asking and/or Grover’s elephant-like memory.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Re: Gladiator....

The discussion has evolved beyond “Gladiator”. We are debating what if we have a future Blu-ray movie showing a “medium color change” that “turns a dull (as reported by many many people) theatrical presentation into a more lifelike, fresher and more natural experience, which most people seem to prefer over the theatrical one”…..is that kosher, or not? Believe me, this is not some far-fetched hypothetical scenario. It is a real possibility down the Blu-ray pike.

I’ll make it easy for you if you love Gladiator so much. By my reluctant *screenshot* analysis of the 2010 Gladiator screencaps presented by OliverK, madshi and most recently, blueshadow posted on this thread…..the detail, clarity, color, framing, etc. is so overwhelmingly superb, natural and lifelike that I almost think I’m watching 3D. It’s flawless.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Penton, did you agonise this much over the presentation of Alien in the 2003 Quadrilogy DVD set?...

lol, I don’t “agonize” about things like that. I “agonize” over doing my taxes (as far as what’s legal to deduct) and things like what the insurance company will charge me for our earthquake insurance coverage. For color, I may be ‘concerned’ over whether or not a certain digital tool in the post toolbox causes a dominant shift away from blu in the shadows of underexposed images that a lenser has shot….and if so, what to do about it in terms of a remedy for the resultant blotchiness.

Due to the nastiest of nasty four letter words (work), I never saw Alien in the 2003 Quadrilogy DVD set.

I notice by your avatar that you’re a Daniel Craig fan, no? This may be of interest to you, as you may not follow our U.S. national news (the Swedish bit)…..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/...news/#38477599

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

(god, I'm clearly masochistic for getting involved here)

I can recommend a club for that in L.A. - best to PM me.

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I can recommend a club for that in L.A. - best to PM me.

ROTFL.

Penton, I bet you can find a club or two within a few blocks of your office. Culver City is known for two things...Sony Pictures and "clubs."

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I see. So, if we have a future Blu-ray case of a “medium color change” that “turns a dull (as reported by many many people) theatrical presentation into a more lifelike, fresher and more natural experience, which most people seem to prefer over the theatrical one” ……then, that’s kosher.

Which part of "Such things should always be judged case-by-case" did you not understand?

Also, if you take my post as a basis for defining a rule of what is allowed (although I clearly said that this should not be done), you should at least have the courtesy to not cut away important things like e.g. if the color change somehow hurt the "art" of the original movie or not.

[iceman]

I hate discussions of big and "controversial" titles, because they are interesting and popular to discuss, but they are also very hard to moderate
I have removed a couple of posts so we don't have the same problem we had a few weeks ago. Since Charles de Lauzirika is now also an insider on this forum as well, we should instead of talking about him, let him comment directly [here] (about Gladiator 2010 and possibly later on the Alien Anthology as I have a feeling there will be discussions about those as well...) since he was directly involved in the process - that is if he wishes. If you want to discuss Gladiator 2010/Alien, then please do so without involving speculations about Charles in 3rd person
If Charles don't wish to comment about Gladiator/Alien [on this site] we should also respect that.

Personally I think it's great that Directors (in this case Ridley Scott) are directly involved in the BD transfers, because then it's certain that the transfer looks like the Director intended. (This debate reminds me an awful lot of Dracula 2007). I have seen a lot of movies- and I've also read a lot of books in my life and I've never heard anyone complain about a chapter in a book that "shouldn't be there", or that the style of writing is "incorrect" (despite if changes were made to new releases of the book) - it's simply how the author wanted the book to be, or how the Director wanted a movie to be - like it or not. It would be great if Director approved transfers (at least for big titles) become standard on BD

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by iceman

I hate discussions of big and "controversial" titles, because they are interesting and popular to discuss, but they are also very hard to moderate
I have removed a couple of posts so we don't have the same problem we had a few weeks ago. Since Charles de Lauzirika is now also an insider on this forum as well, we should instead of talking about him, let him comment directly [here] (about Gladiator 2010 and possibly later on the Alien Anthology as I have a feeling there will be discussions about those as well...) since he was directly involved in the process - that is if he wishes. If you want to discuss Gladiator 2010/Alien, then please do so without involving speculations about Charles in 3rd person
If Charles don't wish to comment about Gladiator/Alien [on this site] we should also respect that.

Personally I think it's great that Directors (in this case Ridley Scott) are directly involved in the BD transfers, because then it's certain that the transfer looks like the Director intended. (This debate reminds me an awful lot of Dracula 2007). I have seen a lot of movies- and I've also read a lot of books in my life and I've never heard anyone complain about a chapter in a book that "shouldn't be there", or that the style of writing is "incorrect" (despite if changes were made to new releases of the book) - it's simply how the author wanted the book to be, or how the Director wanted a movie to be - like it or not. It would be great if Director approved transfers (at least for big titles) become standard on BD

Not taken from this forum (but HTF), but that wouldn't matter:

Ridley Scott personally supervised and approved the new master. I know because I was there with him at each session. He's very happy with the new "Gladiator" master. As he is with the new "Alien" master, by the way.

Should be satisfactory enough, I think .

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Spoken like a preservationist/archivist at SPHE….

Thanks, I will remember to come to you when I am looking for a new line of work ,

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Once one makes a conscious compromise from an original theatrical presentation (that a filmmaker was originally quite happy with), it becomes a slippery slope indeed …..rather quickly.

I also see the problem of the slippery slope - a certain amount of guesswork already goes into recreating the original look of a movie and if this is not the primary goal anymore we quickly are in anything goes territory.
This is why I am completely against alterations that don't even involve people who were instrumental for the look of a movie in the first place, with cinematographers and directors it is obviously different.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Grover once encountered a variant of this problem when he requested one cinematographer to help him restore a film. The cinematographer’s own aesthetic and approach to his work had evolved over the years, so he started to tweak things in a way that was taking the look of the film to a level different than the original achievement. Grover had to steer him back to respecting the film’s original look.

A case where the cinematographer now wants his own cinematography to look very much different when the goal was to make the Blu-Ray look closer to a first run theatrical presentation certainly can indeed lead to conflicts. It is good when these can be resolved when somebody like Grover Crisp is there to coax the creatives in the right direction and to clarify that the original look is the goal, but unfortunately such a scenario is not always feasible.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

Here's an interesting article from The Wall Street Journal on the 2010 movie lineup. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...ovie+year+ever

I think it makes a lot of great points and made me laugh-out-loud a couple of times.

Well, it certainly isn’t looking like a vintage year so far….I’ll grant you that.

If you would like to get an idea of a slice of the internal *debates* which sometimes go on between Producers and specialists (in this instance, cinematographers) which can potentially affect the picture quality of the theatrical presentations, then you might find this amusing, esp. if you own the camera in question. It is indeed a funny business.

Warning – there is some *graphic* language but, probably no more so though than is routinely expressed on some of the more wild and wooly AV forums …
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6823505/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by madshi

Which part of "Such things should always be judged case-by-case" did you not understand?....

I did understand it but, I chose to ignore it because I felt that you were conveniently altering a film preservation principle by ‘quibbling’. You were ‘quibbling’ by taking the policy of faithfully replicating a *look* and compromising it by allowing “case-by-case” color grading modification at the “mastering stage”.

I believe that “case-by-case” may be applicable to anomalies like this…..
http://www.sonyclassics.com/ashesoft...e_presskit.pdf

b.t.w., do you understand which digital tool I was referring to above when I said…..” For color, I may be ‘concerned’ over whether or not a certain digital tool in the post toolbox causes a dominant shift away from blu in the shadows of underexposed images that a lenser has shot….and if so, what to do about it in terms of a remedy for the resultant blotchiness”?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by iceman

If you want to discuss Gladiator 2010/Alien, then please do so without involving speculations about Charles in 3rd person ...

Thank you Ice. I don’t want to discuss the home media incarnations of Gladiator 2010/Alien and I don’t know why some people can’t have a mature discussion about mastering for future Blu-ray movie product and as how it relates to the authentic digital replication of the original theatrical presentation….. without always taking it so personally.

I also sympathize with the challenge of trying to moderate those discussions. These coloring discussions can indeed become quite cantankerous, as I still remember this one from HTF….
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/foru...halloween-1978

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by iceman

(This debate reminds me an awful lot of Dracula 2007)....

Well, not quite the same, as even prior to and after paidgeek made a detailed statement about Bram Stoker’s Dracula on Blu-ray.com (supported by Kim Aubrey on another forum), a plethora of challenging *debate* bordering on insulting hostility ensued both on this forum and other forums all over the internet which continued for months….if not over a year (many of the *questioning* posts still remaining, for public record). But, maybe an Executive of a major Hollywood studio should always have his feet put to the fire by enthusiasts and anyway, like I said, “Dracula”, “Gladiator”, etc. are water under the proverbial bridge.

I’m interested in future motion pictures brought to the Blu-ray format and peoples’ thoughts as to digital tinkering with color, contrast, etc. even with Director involvement (one practical reason being, I’ve already heard of one such title in the very early works).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

Thanks, I will remember to come to you when I am looking for a new line of work ,

I remember you came to me when you wanted a good print of LoA to exhibit also.
You are always welcome.

[Penton-Man]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post3564762

^
Shark, now I see what you were referring to with your one word “Kwai” in that previous post, as The Bridge on the River Kwai is a News item today on the front page.

Like I said, sorry, I don’t divulge release dates.

[ScuseMe]

Hi Penton,

Are there any rumblings around about a blu-ray release of Das Boot? It's one of my all-time favorite war movies. My wife and I saw it in the theater in the early 80's and it was magnificent….except for the atrocious english dubbing

Later I purchased this movie on LD, then again on DVD, and finally had the chance to watch it properly shown in its native German with English subtitles. I'd love to have it on blu to upgrade my 1997 DVD. Unfortunately, except for a rumored German release, I've read nothing else about it.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by ScuseMe

Are there any rumblings around about a blu-ray release of Das Boot?

And, Penton, the answer had better be 'yes'.