4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[vargo]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

The BDA even touted triple (75GB) and quad (100GB) layers for standard Blu-ray back in the day but due to issues with the complexity and yields it never came to fruition.

Yeah, there have been lots of proposed high-capacity discs using multiple layers. Pioneer talked about a 16 layer disc at one point. It's one thing to work out the physics, and another thing entirely to manufacture them at a reasonable cost.

[harpolini]

So assumption-wise seeing how UHD disc may take awhile to catch up with blu-ray releases in the beginning, what benefits will there be for regular blu-ray discs in UHD players:

Possible:
*Faster loading times for blu-ray disc? (Blu-ray players loaded DVD's incredibly fast)
*Better output? (Speculation based on comparative tech when some people argue their OPPO delivers improved PQ, even some HD-DVD player owners say they upscaled DVDs better.)
*Better/Smoother 3D playback (Would the new UHD hardware be able to output 3D blu-rays at above 24hz for smoother playback?)
*Improved color space (Would it make a difference, or eliminate banding on blu-rays?)

Anyone care to speculate if UHD players would boost blu-ray performance. Probably not to the degree that Blu-ray players improved DVD playback, but I'll take any possible improvement.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Are they going to release the initial discs with all the bells and whistles (HDR, 10 bit color, etc), even though practically none of today's TV support them yet? I don't want to have to double dip later.

It probably depends on the master readily available at the time of a particular planned UHD Blu-ray release.

If it's a deep catalog title that hasn't undergone the studios' 4k archival mastering process, perhaps not at the start (8 bit, Rec 709 color, etc.).

If it's a fairly recent release, then I would assume all the bells and whistles will be included. Hopefully, a Dolby Atmos or DTS:X theatrical mix or remix will be included as well (more likely here than a regular Blu-ray to help differentiate the formats). Part of the press release trumpeting the finalization of the BDA licensed spec. for Ultra HD Blu-ray put an emphasis on the immersive audio formats integrated into the audio specs. (Atmos, X, and Auro3D) that wasn't there when Blu-ray got these formats.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Isn't Netflix supposed to debut HDR material later this year? I would cringe knowing that Netflix is one up on UHD BD in any PQ regard.

Throwback Thursday post regarding Netflix PQ - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post10550764

Totally new link to a discussion from a Netflix spokesperson about True 4K and Emerging Technologies (HDR) -

Netflix TechAwayDay NAB2015 OriginalsAndEmergingTech - YouTube

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by harpolini

So assumption-wise seeing how UHD disc may take awhile to catch up with blu-ray releases in the beginning, what benefits will there be for regular blu-ray discs in UHD players:

Possible:
*Faster loading times for blu-ray disc? (Blu-ray players loaded DVD's incredibly fast)
*Better output? (Speculation based on comparative tech when some people argue their OPPO delivers improved PQ, even some HD-DVD player owners say they upscaled DVDs better.)
*Better/Smoother 3D playback (Would the new UHD hardware be able to output 3D blu-rays at above 24hz for smoother playback?)
*Improved color space (Would it make a difference, or eliminate banding on blu-rays?)

Anyone care to speculate if UHD players would boost blu-ray performance. Probably not to the degree that Blu-ray players improved DVD playback, but I'll take any possible improvement.

All they can do is upscale 1080p to 2160p at various degrees of quality depending on the strength of the scaler. They cannot add frames that were never there to begin with and they can't add color information like that either. All the displays can do is possibly frame interpolate 24 fps material to add that wonky soap opera effect.

If UHD Blu-ray players have faster processors and more memory, then I would assume regular Blu-ray discs will load faster.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

It probably depends on the master readily available at the time of a particular planned UHD Blu-ray release.

If it's a deep catalog title that hasn't undergone the studios' 4k archival mastering process, perhaps not at the start (8 bit, Rec 709 color, etc.).

If it's a fairly recent release, then I would assume all the bells and whistles will be included. Hopefully, a Dolby Atmos or DTS:X theatrical mix or remix will be included as well (more likely here than a regular Blu-ray to help differentiate the formats). Part of the press release trumpeting the finalization of the BDA licensed spec. for Ultra HD Blu-ray put an emphasis on the immersive audio formats integrated into the audio specs. (Atmos, X, and Auro3D) that wasn't there when Blu-ray got these formats.

Home video masters and archival digital source files are two very different things. 8-bit is back in dinosaur times as far as such archival assets are concerned, they'll be 10-bit at the minimum. Same goes for the 709 colour space too, as wider gamuts have been used for mastering for longer than all this 4K business has been going on.

Yeah, it's possible that some studios may put out existing 4K home video masters graded in 8-bit 709 instead of going back to the source files and migrating them across in 10-bit P3, but I'd be extremely disappointed if they did. That work shouldn't be as involved as a 709 grade - which itself takes about 2 or 3 days, as Penton once pointed out - so it might only take a matter of hours for an experienced colourist to do, for an SDR version anyway. There really is no reason other than utter cheapness not to get 10-bit P3 right off the bat.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

There really is no reason other than utter cheapness not to get 10-bit P3 right off the bat.

You just described almost all the studios. I sure wouldn't put it past Universal and a few other home video divisions, which have been slashed to the bone.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by harpolini

Anyone care to speculate if UHD players would boost blu-ray performance. Probably not to the degree that Blu-ray players improved DVD playback, but I'll take any possible improvement.

UHD players would upscale Blu-rays, just like a 4K TV would. But to really see any benefit from upscaling, you would have to sit close enough to see a 1080p pixel grid (about 1.5x the screen size away). Of course you're not going to see a 1080p pixel grid on your 4K TV, but if it were a 1080p, so to speak.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Isn't Netflix supposed to debut HDR material later this year?

Netflix plans to share their HDR calibration Guidelines with partners sometime in Q3 2015, until then, some background on current practices….

Netflix TechAwayDay NAB2015 DisplayCalibration - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

- which itself takes about 2 or 3 days, as Penton once pointed out -

You have a good memory to the techno babble I sometimes do, which confuses some canines....https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...im#post9623181

[Brightstar]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

That's what I meant too. Each Extended Cut should get two discs (even on UHD Blu-ray) in order to get the best video quality possible.

More video data still needs more storage space and H.265 isn't quite as efficient as they say it is.

I hope they fix the green tint for 4k trilogy

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Brightstar

I hope they fix the green tint for 4k trilogy

I hope so too, though they will be 2k upconverts. At least you'll get 10 bit video.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Are they going to release the initial discs with all the bells and whistles (HDR, 10 bit color, etc), even though practically none of today's TV support them yet? I don't want to have to double dip later.

Double-dipping has occured for nearly every single home video format released and in essence has been part of the home video business model for studios. The only way you will not see double-dipping with UHD BD is if the format passes away at a young age.

If the format lives on, you better believe you'll see new and improved releases of better selling titles.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

We just don't know yet and there aren't that many A/V journalists willing to rock the boat and get the BDA to come clean on their DRM plans. They mostly vomit back PR release statements... just like most "regular" journalists these days.

A little more than a press release in the following link....an *interview*. But definitely no 60 minutes Mike Wallace-type journalism. Another infomercial, with perhaps a little tidbit which may be news to some….the voluntary admission by the BDA interviewee as to the "original intent" of the Ultra HD Blu-ray format - http://www.whathifi.com/news/ultra-h...etflix-quality

So, tablet and smartphone users rejoice, for you’ve been cared about since Day 1. “Taking that high-quality master to portable devices was the main reason to get in to this."

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

A little more than a press release in the following link....an *interview*. But definitely no 60 minutes Mike Wallace-type journalism. Another infomercial, with perhaps a little tidbit which may be news to some….the voluntary admission by the BDA interviewee as to the "original intent" of the Ultra HD Blu-ray format - http://www.whathifi.com/news/ultra-h...etflix-quality

So, tablet and smartphone users rejoice, for you’ve been cared about since Day 1. “Taking that high-quality master to portable devices was the main reason to get in to this."

I found this interesting regarding the digital bridge (digital copy). Sounds very much like UV with the exception that the copy is locally stored.

Naturally, the issue of piracy looms large. "The difficult part is protection mechanisms but those are resolved now and ready to go. It will have to be attached to the player to be loaded, there's a negotiated hand-off involving connecting to the internet and getting authorisation. The number of devices can be set by studios. There could be a fee associated, it could be part of the disc package."

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

A little more than a press release in the following link....an *interview*. But definitely no 60 minutes Mike Wallace-type journalism. Another infomercial, with perhaps a little tidbit which may be news to some….the voluntary admission by the BDA interviewee as to the "original intent" of the Ultra HD Blu-ray format - http://www.whathifi.com/news/ultra-h...etflix-quality

So, tablet and smartphone users rejoice, for you’ve been cared about since Day 1. “Taking that high-quality master to portable devices was the main reason to get in to this."

I don't think they (smartphone consumers) give a crap, Penton man. If they did, they wouldn't be degrading the art form by watching on such a screen in the first place.

[rdodolak]

Here's another article from What Hi-Fi?

Ultra HD Blu-ray set for September launch, prices revealed

4K discs and players are set for release in time for Christmas, with Ultra HD Blu-ray players set to be "two to three times the cost" of HD players, while Ultra HD discs will be broadly comparable with current Blu-ray disc prices.

[Geoff D]

Seeing as decent players start from 50 or 60 quid these days, I wonder what criterion they're using for the 'two to three times' estimate?

Still, I've been saying for a while that I hoped that prices weren't going to be in the 1000 territory like some folks were saying. UHD BD is an evolution of the BD format, not some revolutionary new thing, so it makes sense that the players won't be horribly expensive. Not until Oppo do one, anyway...

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

A little more than a press release in the following link....an *interview*. But definitely no 60 minutes Mike Wallace-type journalism. Another infomercial, with perhaps a little tidbit which may be news to some….the voluntary admission by the BDA interviewee as to the "original intent" of the Ultra HD Blu-ray format - http://www.whathifi.com/news/ultra-h...etflix-quality

So, tablet and smartphone users rejoice, for you’ve been cared about since Day 1. “Taking that high-quality master to portable devices was the main reason to get in to this."

It's hard to say for certain, but what I'm getting from that interview is that any kind of authentication would likely be limited to making copies to a hard drive or portable device... not to simply play directly off of the disc.

If that is the case, then I'll be happy. I'm still taking a careful watch and wait stance until it's known for certain either way.

[bailey1987]

Roll on September

I don't think we will hear anything in the meantime I expect IFA will be the next place we hear anything new.