4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by gkolb

CNET produced an article about 4K HDR TV's...
For Penton, they even mentioned nits readings twice!

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

orange labs claim we need higher nits capability with consumer tvs….1500

http://www.digitaltveurope.net/43863...ttendees-told/

^ quite disruptive thinking to current consumer TV sales, but nevertheless, the optimal peak luminance claim may not be off the mark since hdr movies are commonly being mastered on displays which are rated higher than 1500 nits

some may ask….yo, but who be orange labs? well, they are a professional lab that don’t sell cameras, nor displays, etc. and whose early independent scientific testing into the value of uhd/4k spatial resolution tvs has been for years, quoted and referred to positively in numerous professional engineering white papers and presentations by smpte fellows and scientists from the ebu development teams working on various aspects of next-gen television, e.g. last two paragraphs - https://tech.ebu.ch/news/2015/09/ebu...w-technologies

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by Rocklandsboy

It's not a new format. That's the problem - from a promotional perspective. It's still blu-ray.

Yes it is, you need a new (expensive) player to read these discs, so it's by definition a new format

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

6 months ago I was spending £200+ a month on Blu-ray's, since the news on the next format I barely spend £15 a month. So the sooner it gets here the sooner the studios can start taking my money again

This

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Yes it is, you need a new (expensive) player to read these discs, so it's by definition a new format

I don't see it as a new format either, despite logic telling me it is. I see it more as Bluray 2.0. Yes, you need a new player but it's still bluray.

[Mavrick]

Isn't it like saying HD-DVD wasn't a new format, just an extension of DVD?

I know where the logic is coming from, but UHD-BD is a new format as much as BD and HD-DVD were.

[Mavrick]

The hardest part of UHD-BD will be getting the message across to the average jo.

BD to this day still has an extremely limited presence within retail stores when you compare it to DVD. For instance my local supermarket has 9 bays of DVD titles and only 1 for BD.

When the first batch of UHD-BD titles release the chances of them actually entering supermarket stores at launch is pretty slim. And even when they do it will almost certainly be as a top 5 or top 10 merged in with the pre existing top 50 BD chart.

I think it is going to be as confusing for costumers as 3D was/is to this day. I still get asked what the difference is between 3D and 2D releases. Now we're going to have to inform them on the differences between UHD and standard BD.

Speaking from personal experience 90% of staff in stores that sell BDs etc have no clue what they are talking about, supermarket staff are just there to stock the shelves and rarely are able to answer even basic queries about anything Blu-ray or tech related.

This is the key area studios should be targeting, there should be awareness sessions held to at least give the relevant information to the front line staff that will be interacting with customers on a daily basis.

I know the major studios have reps that visit stores in the build up to major movie and game releases to show them trailers and give them details about the release. Something like that to increase knowledge of UHD in general would be very handy in helping with the word of mouth.

Any way, should be fun when the time comes

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

Isn't it like saying HD-DVD wasn't a new format, just an extension of DVD?

I know where the logic is coming from, but UHD-BD is a new format as much as BD and HD-DVD were.

Yes, just like HD-DVD, I avoided the war as much as possible but all I heard when someone said HD-DVD was the DVD bit. I don't know how that was marketed but I bet they had a tough time convincing people it wasn't just an extension of DVD. That's what it sounded like.

When 78 records fell out of fashion, was 33 considered a new format because you'd need a whole new gramophone/stereogram if yours didn't have the new speed? I suppose it was? Lots of my old records tell me my new stereo record is compatible with Mono equipment. Were there any that weren't?

There's no logic to it at all. I think the larger point is, it's going to be terribly difficult to market as a new format with bells and whistles as it uses the same name. I don't think it's a problem, I see it as a slow burner than a market changer - an evolution, if you will, rather than a revolution. Part of the problem is I gather standard blurays are going to look good on 4k, so there's no need to dump the collection this time around.

[Mavrick]

Originally Posted by KRW1

Yes, just like HD-DVD, I avoided the war as much as possible but all I heard when someone said HD-DVD was the DVD bit. I don't know how that was marketed but I bet they had a tough time convincing people it wasn't just an extension of DVD. That's what it sounded like.

When 78 records fell out of fashion, was 33 considered a new format because you'd need a whole new gramophone/stereogram if yours didn't have the new speed? I suppose it was? Lots of my old records tell me my new stereo record is compatible with Mono equipment. Were there any that weren't?

There's no logic to it at all. I think the larger point is, it's going to be terribly difficult to market as a new format with bells and whistles as it uses the same name. I don't think it's a problem, I see it as a slow burner than a market changer - an evolution, if you will, rather than a revolution. Part of the problem is I gather standard blurays are going to look good on 4k, so there's no need to dump the collection this time around.

This is my biggest concern. If people couldn't see the difference between SD and 1080p then how will they see the difference between 1080p and UHD?

How good will Sony's "Mastered in 4K" releases look compared to a dedicated UHD disc?

Pixel count is a moot point I guess, we need great HDR demos in stores to really show off how big a difference UHD can make. I know that everyone I've spoke to about UHD I've talked about the benefits of HDR more than the increase in pixels.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by KRW1

I don't see it as a new format either, despite logic telling me it is. I see it more as Bluray 2.0. Yes, you need a new player but it's still bluray.

That's kind of like saying that Playstation 2 wasn't a new/different system from the original Playstation because it was still called "Playstation" and could still play most of the games from the original system (just like UHD BD will be able to play "regular" BDs).

From the perspective of the consumer, in terms of what they need to purchase to get on board with it, they still need a new player in order to use the new discs, and theoretically a 4K TV to really take advantage of the extra quality (in theory some improvement will still likely be seen on 1980p sets).

At the end of the day, whether it's an updated/upgraded version of existing technology that is not compatible with existing players/devices, or a completely new, separate technology that would obviously not be compatible with players from the previous tech, for the consumer the end result is the same.

Getting hung up on the semantics over it all is ridiculously silly.


Also, I'm not picking on you, KRW1, I was just "springboarding" off of your post.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

That's kind of like saying that Playstation 2 wasn't a new/different system from the original Playstation because it was still called "Playstation" and could still play most of the games from the original system (just like UHD BD will be able to play "regular" BDs).

From the perspective of the consumer, in terms of what they need to purchase to get on board with it, they still need a new player in order to use the new discs, and theoretically a 4K TV to really take advantage of the extra quality (in theory some improvement will still likely be seen on 1980p sets).

At the end of the day, whether it's an updated/upgraded version of existing technology that is not compatible with existing players/devices, or a completely new, separate technology that would obviously not be compatible with players from the previous tech, for the consumer the end result is the same.

Getting hung up on the semantics over it all is ridiculously silly.


Also, I'm not picking on you, KRW1, I was just "springboarding" off of your post.

Oh, I don't mind being picked on (not saying you are). I'm not getting hung up on the semantics, though, just interested in it. I've said there's no logic to it

[Dex Robinson]

Let me propose a piece of very unconventional wisdom.

Conventional wisdom is that Blu-ray was harmed by the HD DVD vs. Blu-ray Disc format war. Everybody, including me, has held that to be true.

Now, I'm not so sure.

Wars have a way of spurring rapid development and bold action. Warring factions live in fear of their opponents getting the upper hand. Henry Ford was content making Model-Ts and would have continued doing so for forty years if Chevy hadn't began to offer a more modern, popular car. HD DVD and BD took some extreme, bordeline underhanded, measures to secure allies and gain a competitive advantage.

When I see how UHD BD has "developed" (if you can call it that), I see the complacent lethargy of a format that sees no competition (no physical disc competition) and is oozing along at a snail's pace. Nothing is spurring UHD BD to action...so, unsurprisingly, they are taking no action. I've not seen much movement in the last 6 months. The once-predicted great September when "everybody" would be making announcements has come and gone with barely a whimper. 6 weeks ago we got some title names from Fox...but no disc specs, no availability dates or no pre-order dates. Same today... no disc specs, no availability dates or no pre-order dates. Eerie silence from other studios. Even Sony themselves seem uninterested. All we seem to hear now is just wait for the next big electronics show...wait for IFA 2014, wait for CES 2015, wait for IFA 2015, wait for CES 2016...

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by KRW1

Yes, just like HD-DVD, I avoided the war as much as possible but all I heard when someone said HD-DVD was the DVD bit. I don't know how that was marketed but I bet they had a tough time convincing people it wasn't just an extension of DVD. That's what it sounded like.

When 78 records fell out of fashion, was 33 considered a new format because you'd need a whole new gramophone/stereogram if yours didn't have the new speed? I suppose it was? Lots of my old records tell me my new stereo record is compatible with Mono equipment. Were there any that weren't?

There's no logic to it at all. I think the larger point is, it's going to be terribly difficult to market as a new format with bells and whistles as it uses the same name. I don't think it's a problem, I see it as a slow burner than a market changer - an evolution, if you will, rather than a revolution. Part of the problem is I gather standard blurays are going to look good on 4k, so there's no need to dump the collection this time around.

Not 'going to', they do look good, great in fact.

[octagon]

The forces behind UHD-BDs clearly lack any sense of urgency but is that because they don't have any competition or because they don't have a market?

The die-hard early adopters aren't going anywhere and nobody else really seems to care if players and discs come out now or six months from now or a year from now.

There's precious little incentive to release UHD-BDs at all let alone any reason to hurry them to market.

[bobbydrugar]

It is probably worse then that. Not only do they have little incentive, other than to appease a small and shrinking group of diehard must have physical media folks (like me), they actually have very strong motivational forces to not get these out there. Realistically the studios and publishers really really really want us to simply resolve ourselves to the streaming media model. No more physical disks to press and ship and store etc. It is actually in their best interest to that end to drag this on as long as possible.

Who knows by the time they finally get this mess all sorted out we could realistically be looking at streaming services offering better quality and more features. I would wager they could get 8K streaming content delivery happening long before they can get this UHD-BD stuff sorted out and then sit down to begin discussing new standards for 8K SuperUHD-BD.

Just a thought,
T

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Not 'going to', they do look good, great in fact.

Well, 'going to' for me, as I've not bought in just yet. It's probably why I'm in no great rush, I'm still buying the odd disc (not as many as before, mind) and just waiting on the hardware to come around. (in particular, as I've said before, a 4k projector at a good price, and compatible, and I'm in)

Bluray kick started a hobby I'd grown bored with; after years of trying to replicate a cinema at home, with widescreen VHS, prologic sound (on shoestring budget and all!) and all that came after but bluray suddenly made it all possible. Once I'd seen it (bluray and HD), I was all in; not so this time around.

[Dylan34]

I'm in the same boat as alot of folks on this thread. I had a 4K tv before my apartment got broken into and all my gear stolen (besides the point) and blu-ray looked simply fantastic on it. I'm replacing my items, slowly but surely, and a new 4K tv I will be getting AFTER I move in December. But, I'm not so sure when I'll adopt UHD blu-ray now. I was going to get a player straight out of the gate but the Sony x850c i had upscaled so nicely that I really don't see the need to anytime soon. I guess Ill decide after I move and get another 4K tv. I do know for certain that I won't be replacing every disc this time around like I did with blu-ray.

[Geoff D]

I don't think you'll get the chance to replace every disc anyway Dylan, there's no freakin' way all of the goodness that's ended up on BD (let alone DVD) is gonna end up on UHD BD, it's just too niche. And completely agreed about the player: I was all ready to snap one up but when Blu-ray continues to knock my socks off (for old and new movies alike) I really am struggling to envision just what benefits it will bring to my particular 4K TV. If and when I upgrade the TV, fine, but I'm not gonna start collecting the movies before I even get a player either.

PS

Sorry to hear about your misfortune.

[Dylan34]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I don't think you'll get the chance to replace every disc anyway Dylan, there's no freakin' way all of the goodness that's ended up on BD (let alone DVD) is gonna end up on UHD BD, it's just too niche. And completely agreed about the player: I was all ready to snap one up but when Blu-ray continues to knock my socks off (for old and new movies alike) I really am struggling to envision just what benefits it will bring to my particular 4K TV. If and when I upgrade the TV, fine, but I'm not gonna start collecting the movies before I even get a player either.

PS

Sorry to hear about your misfortune.

Thanks Geoff D.

I miss my 4K tv man, I really do. But, I did buy me a solid 1080p tv for my room to hold me over until the time comes to re-buy all of my stuff.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

HD DVD and BD took some extreme, bordeline underhanded, measures to secure allies and gain a competitive advantage.

Um, no. Just Toshiba and HD DVD. And in spades I might add (studio payoffs, guru FUD, outright marketing lies...)

When I see how UHD BD has "developed" (if you can call it that), I see the complacent lethargy of a format that sees no competition (no physical disc competition) and is oozing along at a snail's pace. Nothing is spurring UHD BD to action...so, unsurprisingly, they are taking no action.

HD DVD and BD both launched half-baked and you're criticizing them for trying to get it right from the start? This isn't a "competition" issue. It's about nailing down the standards and getting all your ducks in a row so you don't launch with a bunch of overpriced problematic hardware. Too many hardware releases have been marred by bugs and then rejected by the public. Take the time, do it right, and get more 4K TVs on the market...not a bad idea.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

HD DVD and BD both launched half-baked and you're criticizing them for trying to get it right from the start? This isn't a "competition" issue. It's about nailing down the standards and getting all your ducks in a row so you don't launch with a bunch of overpriced problematic hardware. Too many hardware releases have been marred by bugs and then rejected by the public. Take the time, do it right, and get more 4K TVs on the market...not a bad idea.

meh, past is past. However it's common place for any new format to release half @ssed & gradually get better with newer players, authoring etc etc.. I'd argue their was a race for dominance between BD & HD DVD & any consumer who bought either at launch was definetly not confused. Every single film had a 30 second promo adverting your format of choice before the film started. Anyway 4K might have a competitor.. Streaming of course. I recently watched Tommorow Land on BD & there was an ad for digital copy & right after that one for buying movies from Disney online right after the first ad. It's a bit concerning to me because why not advert UHD-Blu-ray? DVDs advertised HD DVD & BD on new releases..