4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

Do you even read the links I cite? Vision processing is comparing pixel blocks to determine shape and then determining how they move in the frame from frame to frame.

The link you posted was about bilateral filtering which is very simple to process. That a DSP can do some things that are related to video doesn't mean that it can do everything related to video. A cat is a mammal but not all mammals are cats. If you are interested in understanding video decoding I would recommend reading up on the subject.

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

The Xtensa processor is a fairly powerful controller CPU and multiple simple smaller CPUs (up to 64) that can have custom blocks.

Those are 64 DSP cores and DSP cores are very limited in what they can do.

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

DSP now means digital signal processing which for video is now stream processing and requires extremely powerful hardware.

DSPs can do a large number of operations per second but are very limited in what they can do. Operations per second don't tell you the whole story and they don't tell you whether something can do HEVC decoding.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

The link you posted was about bilateral filtering which is very simple to process. That a DSP can do some things that are related to video doesn't mean that it can do everything related to video. A cat is a mammal but not all mammals are cats. If you are interested in understanding video decoding I would recommend reading up on the subject.

Those are 64 DSP cores and DSP cores are very limited in what they can do.

DSPs can do a large number of operations per second but are very limited in what they can do. Operations per second don't tell you the whole story and they don't tell you whether something can do HEVC decoding.

But the articles cited prove the Xtensa DPU is a AMD UVD and it is doing the HEVC codec so I don't understand what you are saying?

It is also doing the gesture recognition and up and down video scaling and in Carrizo just about every advanced video feature mentioned for AMD APUs because it's more efficient than a CPU or GPU at those tasks.

Sony and Microsoft custom designed the Xtensa DPUs used in the XB1 and PS4 for the features they wanted to support. We have 2013 statements from Sony and Microsoft that the PS4 and XB1 will support 4K media. Are they lies or is Ito lying for NDA reasons?

Any console designed to support HEVC and connected to the mains can do so with older less efficient versions of Xtensa DPUs (first version of IVP available to partners 2012) provided they were designed to do so (powerful enough). The XB1 APU was delayed 6 months over the PS4 APU for "expected reasons" likely related to the Xtensa IVP release date. The PS4 Southbridge not the APU has the Xtensa DPUs so it was on a different schedule.

The third page of the Xtensa PDF I cited mentions all the vision processing that can be done by a Xtensa IVP but does not mention Codecs. This slide posted by Sony when discussing the Xtensa True Audio in the PS4 does mention Codecs (upper left blue block) among other things and AMD UVDs are Xtensa DPUs.

To bring us back on topic for this thread: AMD APUs and dGPUs with UVD 6 or greater can support HEVC thus should be enabled by Windows 10 to support UHD blu-ray. The same I think can be said for Nvidia dGPUs. It's possible that older AMD APUs with UVD 4.2 (Kaveri) can support the same (Articles) also using the GPU (video can not be unencrypted outside the ARM TEE).

[Paul.R.S]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

Here's something: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2015/10/prweb13051416.htm

BluFocus Approved as First 'Ultra HD Blu-ray™' Test Center in North America

http://www.blufocus.com/uhdqualification/

So they have only just started to test them...

Thanks for this . . . although it's depressing news. Either BluFocus is fibbing with their use of the word "first" in the press release or it does indeed seem that testing of Ultra HD BD is just now beginning. Perhaps someone familiar with those processes can comment on how long that might take, but it seems that this is further proof that even a CES 2016 launch is not going to happen.

Dex Robinson, I'm sure you're pleased.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Paul.R.S

Thanks for this . . . although it's depressing news. Either BluFocus is fibbing with their use of the word "first" in the press release or it does indeed seem that testing of Ultra HD BD is just now beginning. Perhaps someone familiar with those processes can comment on how long that might take, but it seems that this is further proof that even a CES 2016 launch is not going to happen.

CES is 2 months out and it looks like they're testing production units, not prototypes.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

But the articles cited prove the Xtensa DPU is a AMD UVD and it is doing the HEVC codec so I don't understand what you are saying?

I can see that you strongly believe what you are saying but I don't see the evidence for it. You say that the UVD is an Xtensa chip but the link you posted merely says that it is "an ingredient" for UVD, you say that UVD is a software decoder but that is speculation and ignores the fact that hardware decoders are the most efficient way to do video decoding, and you say that tech websites that have reported on UVD6 having a HEVC hardware decoder are wrong but there is no reason to doubt that (several other companies this year have released CPUs/GPUs with HEVC hardware decoders).

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

This slide posted by Sony when discussing the Xtensa True Audio in the PS4 does mention Codecs (upper left blue block) among other things and AMD UVDs are Xtensa DPUs.

That image is from an article on the Cadence website which was filled with a lot of marketing nonsense. Just my opinion but the claim that Cadence has DSP chips that are 10 to 100 times faster than other DSP chips should be met with skepticism and not with faith.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

I can see that you strongly believe what you are saying but I don't see the evidence for it. You say that the UVD is an Xtensa chip but the link you posted merely says that it is "an ingredient" for UVD, you say that UVD is a software decoder but that is speculation and ignores the fact that hardware decoders are the most efficient way to do video decoding, and you say that tech websites that have reported on UVD6 having a HEVC hardware decoder are wrong but there is no reason to doubt that (several other companies this year have released CPUs/GPUs with HEVC hardware decoders).

Originally Posted by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding_implementations_and_p roducts

On 6 June, 2015, Microsoft updated the Xbox One to support 10-bit HEVC decoding.[112]

Microsoft released and update to the Xbox One’s system software, which fixes several issues and adds support for a new video codec.

10-bit HD High Efficiency Video Coding (HEVC) platform support added

10-bit HD HEVC enables video streaming apps, like NetFlix, to use lower bandwidth to deliver HD quality video streams. 10-bit Ultra color increases the video color precision from 8-bits to 10-bits – with 8-bits you only get 16 million colors, but with 10-bit Ultra color precision you get 1 billion life-like colors that makes your video more vibrant.

How is this done? Remember if it's to be used with IPTV and UHD Blu-ray then it must support a low power mode. Is this a HEVC hardware decoder or a software decoder running on an accelerator (Xtensa DPU). The wording in that a Software update adds HEVC codec is telling...and according to you HEVC hardware decoding was not available so the XB1 and PS4 can't support 10 bit HEVC for UHD blu-ray and IPTV.

This confirms the XB1 will be a UHD blu-ray player with digital bridge (Playready ND whitepaper). In 2013 a Microsoft employee stated the XB1 would support UHD Blu-ray. It also makes the Ito comments about the PS4 not supporting HEVC and the drive not supporting 3 layers suspect or Sony is stupid. Both have custom Xtensa DPUs and I can't see Sony not wanting to support 4K BLu-ray on their PS4.

AND what does Microsoft-Sony.com being registered by Microsoft mean? The domain name was registered 2011 but we still don't have any idea as to what it refers to? Both are going to be UHD IPTV and Blu-ray Media Hubs (DVR (Cable and Antenna TV), Vidipath, ATSC 2.0 - HbbTV 1.5 - Side Loaded Media and more.....) Just as the Fox President stated to a Room full of CE representatives for the Blu-ray digital bridge.

Edit: All Microsoft platforms will be using Playready ND and HTML5 as will Sony platforms. They will stream media to each other over the home network. Playready ecosystem = Vidipath ecosystem with Microsoft and Sony supporting DLNA 3 and possibly 4 out of the gate.

Get it now......

1) Modern standard blu-ray drives can read three layers
2) HEVC 10 bit (UHD Blu-ray) can be supported by Xtensa DPUs
3) The PS4 and XB1 do HDCP 2.2 in the ARM SoC TEE as required by the Movie industry and the HDMI interface is designed to support both VR and HFR with up to 120 Hz frame rates.

They will be UHD IPTV and I think Blu-ray media Hubs with Digital bridge.

[bailey1987]

Oh my god! we have a new forum

[Paul.R.S]

WOW on The Martian: IMAX 3D at the Chinese last night. I don't know the rez of all that crazy vifx and other aspects of the technical production (although I know the most likely parties herein who will school me), but it seems to me this would make a stunning UHD BD if properly done.

[jono3000]

Originally Posted by Paul.R.S

WOW on The Martian: IMAX 3D at the Chinese last night. I don't know the rez of all that crazy vifx and other aspects of the technical production (although I know the most likely parties herein who will school me), but it seems to me this would make a stunning UHD BD if properly done.

I asked Framestore on Instagram and they said 5k ☺

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by jono3000

I asked Framestore on Instagram and they said 5k ☺

The final DI is 2K if IMDb is right....

[Geoff D]

I thought 2themax said the Dolby version was 4K?

[2themax]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I thought 2themax said the Dolby version was 4K?

I did .

[Geoff D]

There we are then.

[Wendell R. Breland]

I hope this puts the PS4 having UHD BD capabilities to rest:

Sony Computer Entertainment (SCE) Vice President Masayasu Ito has hinted at the possibility of releasing an enhanced, higher performance version of the PS4 that would also support Ultra HD Blu-ray movies.

Speaking to Japanese gaming website 4Gamer, Mr. Ito talked openly on a variety of topics regarding Sony's gaming line-up, but was unusually candid when asked about Sony's plans for future PS4 SKUs.

Ito hinted that it would not be implausible for Sony to release a high performance, enhanced version of the PS4 that would have better gaming performance

When probed on the question of Ultra HD Blu-ray support for the PS4, Ito confirmed that the Blu-ray drive used in the PS4 cannot read the triple-layer media that is used by the new 4K Blu-ray format, and as a result, existing PS4s have no way to play these new discs scheduled to come out at the end of the year.

However, Ito again hinted that an enhanced PS4 model could possible also include a new disc reader, which would then allow the PS4 to play Ultra HD Blu-ray movies.

While Sony may indeed have such plans, the real question, according to Ito, is whether there's a market for a souped up PS4, one that will also play Ultra HD Blu-ray movies. Ito cites the fact that very few homes have 4K TVs that are needed to view Ultra HD Blu-ray at their best, and the added cost of a new disc drive and the hardware upgrades for the "super PS4", might mean a PS4 that would be too expensive to make commercial sense for the company.

Thanks to Ron Jones for the link.

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

I hope this puts the PS4 having UHD BD capabilities to rest:



Thanks to Ron Jones for the link.

It all sound like Nintendo with the enhanced Wii that will play HD games, it became the Wii U that no one wanted. PS5 no doubt.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

It all sound like Nintendo with the enhanced Wii that will play HD games, it became the Wii U that no one wanted. PS5 no doubt.

The Wii U no one wanted?
Hyperbole then, I wanted mine and millions others wanted theirs also.

And why in this and other threads must we bring up the ps4 time and again?
We knew from day one that it couldnt play them

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

The Wii U no one wanted?
Hyperbole then, I wanted mine and millions others wanted theirs also.

And why in this and other threads must we bring up the ps4 time and again?
We knew from day one that it couldnt play them

There's no saying it won't. I half expect mine to.

Cheer up Nintendo fan, maybe the NX will have a Ultra HD Blu Ray player in.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

There's no saying it won't. I half expect mine to.

Cheer up Nintendo fan, maybe the NX will have a Ultra HD Blu Ray player in.

Let's not make this console wars again, I have all 3 consoles plus ps3 and gaming PC

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

I hope this puts the PS4 having UHD BD capabilities to rest:

probably not since

1) this has been linked to in the past
2) not all films in UHD will be on 3 layer disks
3) people have tried 3 layer BDXL burnable disks in the PS4 and they do work so what you bolded does not make sense no matter who says it.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

people have tried 3 layer BDXL burnable disks in the PS4 and they do work so what you bolded does not make sense no matter who says it.

I don't know, I don't care!!

I strongly suspect reading data from a data disc is not the same as reading data at > 100Mbps from a UHD BD ROM.