4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

VP9 allows for 10-bit, 12-bit, 4:2:2, 4:4:4, and the Rec. 2020 color space. I don't know if/when those features will be seen on YouTube but VP9 can do it.

I'm willing to bet that you will never see VP9 on 4K Blu-ray.


I may be wrong in the end, we'll see.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

Whether it is suitable or not I have had enough of all the apple shit.

Apple? AVC? Wut?

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Apple? AVC? Wut?

I was under the impression that it was an apple product.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

I was under the impression that it was an apple product.

Are we talking about the same thing here? H.264, MPEG-4 AVC, whatever you want to call it, Apple had nothing to do with it whatsoever. VC-1 was Microsoft's baby, perhaps that's what you're thinking of?

Wiki info here, take with the appropriate helping of salt: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Are we talking about the same thing here? H.264, MPEG-4 AVC, whatever you want to call it, Apple had nothing to do with it whatsoever. VC-1 was Microsoft's baby, perhaps that's what you're thinking of?

Wiki info here, take with the appropriate helping of salt: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC

In glad to have read that, for a long time I thought it was Apple that made it, what with them using it for Apple trailers. I wonder if they will adopt h.265?

I want to start watching trailers in Ultra HD ideally downloadable from either Apple Trailers or Yahoo Trailers both of which have been my source for them for years.

[bailey1987]

Here's something: http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/patent-g...-for-4k-video/

Doesn't sound too good. On the bright side the prices have been revealed so maybe they are taking orders now?

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

H.264, MPEG-4 AVC, whatever you want to call it, Apple had nothing to do with it whatsoever.

Actually Apple is a patent holder in AVC/H.264 as seen here in the MPEG LA group.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Actually Apple is a patent holder in AVC/H.264 as seen here in the MPEG LA group.

I thought the totality of that statement might come back to haunt me. Sure, they're a patent holder, but then so are many other companies. The point is that it's no more Apple's specific product than it is for any of the other licensors on that list.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The point is that it's no more Apple's specific product than it is for any of the other licensors on that list.

True. The same thing for VC-1 despite what some former MS employees tried to espouse. VC-1 had many patent holders as seen here.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

I hope NAB might reveal more. If not then IFA is the nest bet but it will be cutting it a little short if you ask me.

there is also CEDIA in Oct. http://expo.cedia.net/ It is smaller compared to CES but usually more interesting and where you get these types of announcements.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Anyone remember the price of DVD players in the fall of 2006? As stated earlier, I paid > $1000 for my first G Panny BD player or 5 to 10 time the price of a DVD player. We had a similar situation in the early 2000's with VHS vs. D-VHS D-Theater machines, that is, D-VHS machines were much more expensive.

IMO, folks are using the wrong reference point. Current upscale BD players still cost $249 and up. Samsung BD-F7500 = $248, Sony BDPS7200 = $298, Pioneer Elite BDP-80FD = $299, Yamaha BD-S677BL = $249, OPPO BDP-103 = $499

I believe we will be lucky to see a 1st G UHD BD player for under a $1000. Hard to guess what titles will cost. The only reference at this point is Sony Unlimited for their title download service for Sony media players and titles are ≥ $30.

my guesses:

I think it is a mistake to use BD vs DVD and one should look at BD vs 3D BD to make a more accurate prediction. Look at see how iSuppli pegs the BD drive at 200-300 while a DVD drive at the time at 20$. On the other hand when 3D was introduced it used the same BD dribve that was used on 2D players and with 4K you can use the same drive, so there is no additional cost there. When BD was introduced there were no SOC chips (only came out in 2007) for playback so the first players needed to go with more expensive PC components route (unlike DVD that had SOC players) with 3D SOC existed with the introduction, the same is true for 4k so there is an other BIG manufacturing difference that does not exist today.

so I am guessing under 1K (between 500$-800$)

as for films, I agree at around 30$ plus, again I think the best reference is 3D. So I am guessing new releases 5-10$ over the price of the next highest set (i.e. if a 2D BD and a 4K/2D combo the 4K will be 5-10$ more if there is a 2D, 3D/2D and 4K/3D/2D combo the 4k will be 5-10 more than the 3D but if it is 2D, 3D/2D and 4K/2D combo the 4k will be 5-10 more than the 2D (since 3D is not included) and so around the price of the 3D)

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by spectre08

Players will probably initially be quite expensive, but I don't see the same for disks. We'll probably see the same $10 - $15 premium that we see for 3D.

Since right now 3D and 4K aren't compatible UHD disks will probably be about the same price as 3D disks, and for movies released in 3D you'll have to chose.

agree, except you are missing that in a combo you can have a 2D disk a 4k disk and a 3D disk so compatibility is meaningless. Personally I would rather have all 3, that way I get to choose what I want to use when I sit down to watch something.

[bailey1987]

My hope is that many of the launch players will still be receiving software and firmware updates when we are sat talking about 8K physical format. The recent receivers have proven that features can be added past launch, even if you have to pay for them. With any luck a simple software update will ensure compatibility with any emerging technologies.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

My hope is that many of the launch players will still be receiving software and firmware updates when we are sat talking about 8K physical format. The recent receivers have proven that features can be added past launch, even if you have to pay for them. With any luck a simple software update will ensure compatibility with any emerging technologies.

Hidden 8k support via updates, etc. will not happen with "4k" players. No way, no how. Never has happened before with previous products and I don't see the trend happening now.

8k is truly silly for homes anyway. That's about 70mm grade... fine for cinemas and I'm all for it, but for 99% of homes, that's overkill.

If they upgrade 4k to include 12 bit, 4:4:4 and get Rec. 2020 ironed out and maybe introduce even better compression codecs, then that's something, but 8k is beyond the scope of home use.

Realistically, the industries still aren't even using a true 4k workflow, just 2k-2.8k upconverts except for the rarest of occasions. Part of it is because digital SFX, for which many movies heavily rely upon (for good or ill - that's a topic for another discussion), are usually rendered at 2k at best.

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Hidden 8k support via updates, etc. will not happen with "4k" players. No way, no how. Never has happened before with previous products and I don't see the trend happening now.

8k is truly silly for homes anyway. That's about 70mm grade... fine for cinemas and I'm all for it, but for 99% of homes, that's overkill.

If they upgrade 4k to include 12 bit, 4:4:4 and get Rec. 2020 ironed out and maybe introduce even better compression codecs, then that's something, but 8k is beyond the scope of home use.

Realistically, the industries still aren't even using a true 4k workflow, just 2k-2.8k upconverts except for the rarest of occasions. Part of it is because digital SFX, for which many movies heavily rely upon (for good or ill - that's a topic for another discussion), are usually rendered at 2k at best.

I wouldn't want 8K support, I would rather a new format for that. I was just referring to anything in 4K's future.

[bailey1987]

April 9th for the DTS X announcement here: http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/DT...pril-9th.shtml

[bailey1987]

Does anybody know what profile Ultra HD Blu-ray's will be encoded in when they use HEVC as the video codec? I'm wanting to get a NVIDIA GeForce 960 GPU, they use the GM206 GPU that has hardware encoding and decoding for HEVC, the catch though is that it only supports the Main and Main 10 profiles.

I'm assuming that Ultra HD Blu-ray's will also include support for AVC h.264 at a profile that supports the Ultra HD specification, any idea what profile will be used if they use h.264?

Thanks for any help.

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

I wouldn't want 8K support, I would rather a new format for that. I was just referring to anything in 4K's future.

The thing about the idea of an 8K disc format is that most movies aren't shot or finished at a resolution anywhere near 8K or 70mm resolution. And to get a full effect from something of that level in the home one would probably need a big 120" or greater screen. I don't see that having mainstream potential. Maybe it would work for those who build dedicated home theater rooms with projection, but I also don't know about sustainability given that so few films are made to those standards.

You can also scan and master a film in 8K and then present it on 4K Blu-ray and it will look stunning for almost all home theater presentations.

Since so many of the forum members here seem to even question whether or not 4K Blu-ray will succeed, the idea of another format eventually coming for an even smaller pool of films seems questionable. I suppose only time will tell if studios attempt something like that, though.

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

Here's something: http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/patent-g...-for-4k-video/

Doesn't sound too good. On the bright side the prices have been revealed so maybe they are taking orders now?

I read that article. Thanks for sharing it. It doesn't sound like it will have a dramatic effect on the way films are released on Blu-ray. It will have an effect on the production of video or applications made with the same encoding techniques, though. This is more of a development issue for companies than it is a matter of whether or not studios will use the codec on 4K Blu-ray. At least that's what it sounds like to me.

If someone else knows more about this process, though, I would love to hear additional insights on this topic.

[Richard Paul]

This rumor about Ultra HD Blu-ray was briefly posted on a website before it vanished a few hours later. Here is a quick summary of what the rumor said:

1. Ultra HD Blu-ray players will require discs to be registered online to a specific player and they can not be watched on any other player.
2. If the player can't connect to the internet than the player can only play a registered disc at standard definition resolution.
3. After being registered a disc can be changed to a different Ultra HD Blu-ray player (for a fee) but this can only be done once every two years.
4. A video watermarking system will be used.
5. A new version of AACS will be used.
6. The Ultra HD Blu-ray format might not be playable on PCs.
7. HDCP 2.2 will be required.

This is only a rumor and I am hoping this was just a joke that was released a day early.