4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Blu-ray Neo]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

If worse does come to worst then I would think that all UHD BD sales would also come with a regular BD, so that one could still watch the movie in the boonies where there is no internet.

With that, you will have an MSRP of around $40-$50 which is also dangerous for the format.

That's the problem with BD now. I haven't bought a DVD in roughly four (4) years now. Personally, I think they should stop packaging a DVD with the BD or at least offer multiple sets with each new release. I have no interest in the DVD's of say, Interstellar and many others. If I could sell the DVD's believe me, I would. Offer me a strict BD only SKU for the movie I want.


If it's not on BD, then I'll wait until it is. Just my 0.02.

[Blu-ray Neo]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

but doesn't your post kind of contradict that? Like you said, with MS it was more than a rumour, the whole product was designed to work that way and they had to re-invent the xbone at the last second because even though they they thought it could happen, if they launched the device they were thinking of people would have abandoned the platform and that is why it "never happen(ed)". You need many generations of very stupid people for something like that to be acceptable by consumers.

Read the whole discussion and not just one post. The point was being made that companies wouldn't dare to do something like that.

I was arguing that they could and would if they could get away with it.

The fact that the X-One went into production with the oppressive DRM installed speaks volumes. Remember, MS told everyone BEFOREHAND that the X-One was going to have all of these *copy protections*.

The consumers got lucky and won this battle, but not the war.

While the gaming and movie industries are slightly different, they sleep in the same bed just on different sides.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Blu-ray Neo

With that, you will have an MSRP of around $40-$50 which is also dangerous for the format.

That's the problem with BD now. I haven't bought a DVD in roughly four (4) years now. Personally, I think they should stop packaging a DVD with the BD or at least offer multiple sets with each new release. I have no interest in the DVD's of say, Interstellar and many others. If I could sell the DVD's believe me, I would. Offer me a strict BD only SKU for the movie I want.


If it's not on BD, then I'll wait until it is. Just my 0.02.

Including the DVD really has had no effect on price. The MSRP and street price is pretty much the same whether it's included or not. But studios have been starting to exclude it lately (since the UV/DC is fast becoming a more attractive option for alternate viewing).

But yes having a BD included with a UHD BD just might affect the price by $5 or so. Also it might not be a good idea since many will undoubtedly be selling off the BD to subsidize the cost of the UHD BD disc. So I would prefer it not be included as well.

[garyd97]

I will never buy a single disc if any kind of DRM is involved.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by garyd97

I will never buy a single disc if any kind of DRM is involved.

DRM is involved with Blu-ray. We're just stating that DRM coupled with an internet connection dial-in for authentication would not (and should not) be tolerated.

[Tech-UK]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

DRM is involved with Blu-ray. We're just stating that DRM coupled with an internet connection dial-in for authentication would not (and should not) be tolerated.

Exactly.

The studio's could take it one step further and require users to create accounts with each studio; Universal, WB, Paramount, etc. just to watch a disc, rather than a centralised authentication system.

My HT doesn't touch the internet, or even my computer network. And I want to keep it that way.

This is why I am not a fan of Microsoft Office 2013, or more precisely, the setup, having to create an account and DL the software, which is an absolute pain, when one's internet connection isn't very good.

More control to the provider and less to the consumer.

[jono3000]

Originally Posted by Tech-UK

Exactly.

The studio's could take it one step further and require users to create accounts with each studio; Universal, WB, Paramount, etc. just to watch a disc, rather than a centralised authentication system.

My HT doesn't touch the internet, or even my computer network. And I want to keep it that way.

This is why I am not a fan of Microsoft Office 2013, or more precisely, the setup, having to create an account and DL the software, which is an absolute pain, when one's internet connection isn't very good.

More control to the provider and less to the consumer.

I don't have my Blu-ray player connected to the Internet either, I don't want it checking for new trailers when I put in a disc.

I assume you meant Office 365 because Office 2013 you can buy and install with a product key only.

[Tech-UK]

Originally Posted by jono3000

I don't have my Blu-ray player connected to the Internet either, I don't want it checking for new trailers when I put in a disc.

I assume you meant Office 365 because Office 2013 you can buy and install with a product key only.

I thought disc packages are only available to Microsoft's so called 'emerging markets'?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Blu-ray Neo

Pirates have been copying movies for decades. Your point? Hell, even people were recording off of HBO which is against the law and duping VHS tapes. Piracy has been around longer than the gamer's world my friend. If anyone's logic is flawed, it's definitely yours.

Your logic is faulty thinking the gaming and video worlds are exactly alike.

You're sitting there with a straight face saying that the studios would NEVER do something as unpopular as restrictive DRM and I'm saying that your wrong

Where's the proof? You're SOOO sure let's see the docs.

Sony Records spent MILLIONS developing an anti-copying track on their CD's which made them unreadable by 90% of the world's CD-ROM's. What happened? A "youngin" defeated this tactic with a felt tipped marker.

And what does this have to do with this discussion? Does anyone have to online authenticate their music on disc to this day?

Microsoft X-Box One's DRM was used as an example of what companies dream about when it comes to DRM and the control of their products. The only reason Microsoft backed down is because the customers expressed their outrage and REFUSED to support MS in any way, shape or form until this was resolved. It also came to a point where you had several lawsuits being filed against MS for such restrictive DRM.

AGAIN: GAMERS rebelled against a GAME authentication.

You talk about "apples to oranges" and yet, you bring up DiviX? DiviX was a RENTAL based service that was created by Circuit City. You could not purchase a DiviX disc to OWN. Try again.

You could unlock it to OWN. Try again.

Actually that has been done before by SEVERAL game manufacturers. For example...

Your examples all FAILED spectacularly(or with a whimper).


Again, you have no proof. Just your speculation and rumor.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid. Sure hope it doesn't come to pass. But I was just thinking from the studio's point of view (or at least trying to, lol) and since they seem to hold all the cards (they have less to gain since most if not all the losses from not releasing on UHD BD would be offset on increased digital revenue), they can pretty much dictate their CP terms.

companies (and people) tend to think that way from time to time (DIVX, rootkit virus on CDs, MS XBone to name some of the biggest blunders on that front) but it is completely wrong. Their crap is useless and worthless If consumers are not willing to buy it, so they need to offer something the consumer wants to buy and is willing to spend their money on. So they can't dictate anything, only we (consumers) can. Like what happened with the previously mentioned examples where the companies thought they could get away with it but people dictated "NOT ACCEPABLE".

If worse does come to worst then I would think that all UHD BD sales would also come with a regular BD, so that one could still watch the movie in the boonies where there is no internet.

I hope every one will be a 4K/2K (3D) combo, it makes life easier and what you say might not be an issue for now. But it does not make sense as a solution.

There is nothing stopping someone in the boonies from owning a 4K TV/BD player and as time passes that scenario becomes more and more likely. When I got my BD player in 2006 I used to bring it with me to "the boonies" but I have not done that in years because everyone that has a place in the boonies also happens to have a BD player there. So don't you think it is insulting that the solution of "I want to watch in the boonies that 4K content I bought on that 4K TV" to be "well watch the 1080P BD upscaled on it"? If that is the solution why buy the 4K?

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Blu-ray Neo

Read the whole discussion and not just one post. The point was being made that companies wouldn't dare to do something like that.

[b]I was arguing that they could and would if they could get away with it.

The fact that the X-One went into production with the oppressive DRM installed speaks volumes. Remember, MS told everyone BEFOREHAND that the X-One was going to have all of these *copy protections*.

The consumers got lucky and won this battle, but not the war.

While the gaming and movie industries are slightly different, they sleep in the same bed just on different sides.

I did read the whole discussion, you are just missing the forest for the trees. You say The consumers got lucky because The fact that the X-One went into production with the oppressive DRM installed speaks volumes(trees) but that is not what happened, it is like you said earlier in this post, they would have gone that way if they could get away with it (forest). That is what is important.

Why couldn't they get away with it? because after the announcement the consumers said "it is unacceptable and we won't buy it if it works that way". That is what ultimately made them change their mind not luck. So you need to ask yourself if Joe found it unacceptable in the 90's with DIVX and in 2013 with the xbone why would Joe now find it acceptable? What has changed. If nothing has changed then there is no reason to assume Joe will find this any more acceptable. So like with MS it won't happen because it is a game that can't be won.

[jono3000]

Originally Posted by Tech-UK

I thought disc packages are only available to Microsoft's so called 'emerging markets'?

Yes your right didn't realise that. I have a MSDN subscription - is that the computer software equivalent of Netflix? Of course a software download is an exact image of the disc rather than a streaming compressed copy of the movie.

[Tech-UK]

Originally Posted by jono3000

Yes your right didn't realise that. I have a MSDN subscription - is that the computer software equivalent of Netflix? Of course a software download is an exact image of the disc rather than a streaming compressed copy of the movie.

Exactly, but my problem is the delivery of said content, and that one needs to create an account (authenticate) to use the software, but it seems that this is the present and future of software, whether that be computer software, games, music or movies.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Blu-ray Neo

I agree. It's a bad idea, but don't sit there and say that it would never happen.

Agreed, and while I think it is unlikely to happen soon the Movielabs proposal for DRM was created by several of the major studios. They greatly desire that level of control and if they thought that it would work they would attempt it.

The problem is that the vast majority of people think of movies as something they own in the same way that they own a chair. Despite spending billions of dollars on politicians in the United States and creating many laws related to DRM the average person still has the funny notion that buying a product means that they own it.

I can only imagine what would happen if chair companies tried to do with chairs what the major studios have done with movies (you have to sign a contract to buy the chair, you must read a booklet about other chairs before sitting in the chair, it is illegal for you to alter the chair in any way, you must agree to be spied upon to make sure that you are using the chair properly, ....).

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Apples and oranges. Gamers have been using CD Keys and activations for years. There is no successful precedent in the home video market for that kind. DIVX failed spectacularly.

Than why did the major studios create the Movielabs proposal for DRM that went far beyond DIVX?

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Too bad they do not represent themselves on this site. Could be fear of being tared and feathered for allowing folks to lockout the menu and skip buttons on BD players. Its like they never thought some of us would buy disc for repeat viewings.

UHD BD titles ought to be required to go straight to the Main Menu with previews being an option!!

With VHS you could at least fast forward through the commercials and many DVD players would let you skip them. It is sad that Blu-ray was a step back in convenience since it didn't have to be that way. The ability to lock consumers from controlling the player was a gift to the major studios but a curse to consumers.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

Agreed, and while I think it is unlikely to happen soon the Movielabs proposal for DRM was created by several of the major studios. They greatly desire that level of control and if they thought that it would work they would attempt it.

Than why did the major studios create the Movielabs proposal for DRM that went far beyond DIVX?

I think "never" is about right. I agree that studios would like that, but the question does not lie there but what would consumers accept.

Look at your "previews comments". You talk about it being a curse on consumers. Personally, unless I don't have the time (and I like making time for movies) or it is a disk I have watched countless times before (no use watching the previews of Halloween every year that I watch on Halloween or it's a wonderful life that I watch every Christmas or....) I love watching previews and I will want to watch the previews (actually it bugs me even more when the previews are hidden in the menu). They might introduce me to a film I did not notice before that looks interesting or make me realize I am not interested in a film I only heard about.

This is where the discussion gets tricky. Obviously there are people that don't care if there is a connection that is needed. And some people focus on that with comments like "look at the PC gaming industry" (like some said when the xbone was announced and are saying in this thread now). But it misses the obvious, guys like me that were not OK with how PC gaming was evolving I just stopped PC gaming and focused on console gaming. The same in any such discussion. The guy that is streaming films is obviously OK with needing a connection, but anyone that is not OK with it will not be purchasing a film on UV or apple or Vudu..... but will be buying the disks and so the physical media consumer (which is the consumer the studio wants with a physical media offering) will have a concentration of people that object to such ridiculous measures.

[MisterXDTV]

As I said many times in the past, I think authentication online will be required....

Studios are not going to accept the same useless protections of the past....

We live in a world where ripping a Blu-ray is easier than copying a Macrovision VHS....

You should expect the same protections you find on Netflix or Sony Video Unlimited 4K....

The physical disc will become only a carrier of data not the product itself....

The alternative to this is a format that costs 50 Dollars/Movie...

[Opips3]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

As I said many times in the past, I think authentication online will be required....

Studios are not going to accept the same useless protections of the past....

We live in a world where ripping a Blu-ray is easier than copying a Macrovision VHS....

You should expect the same protections you find on Netflix or Sony Video Unlimited 4K....

The physical disc will become only a carrier of data not the product itself....

The alternative to this is a format that costs 50 Dollars/Movie...

MGM studios own film "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" (1966). The studios decided give reduce colours advance picture but problem a yellowish sky or redish sky are problem.... and not audio 5.1 channels. that's Mono audio original. I waiting to see 4K UHD BD with High Dynamic Range color. Maybe you right UHD BD format that costs 50 dollars!!

[AK65]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

As I said many times in the past, I think authentication online will be required....

Studios are not going to accept the same useless protections of the past....

We live in a world where ripping a Blu-ray is easier than copying a Macrovision VHS....

You should expect the same protections you find on Netflix or Sony Video Unlimited 4K....

The physical disc will become only a carrier of data not the product itself....

The alternative to this is a format that costs 50 Dollars/Movie...

Oh this online authentication will be cracked within months.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

Look at your "previews comments". You talk about it being a curse on consumers. Personally, unless I don't have the time (and I like making time for movies) or it is a disk I have watched countless times before (no use watching the previews of Halloween every year that I watch on Halloween or it's a wonderful life that I watch every Christmas or....) I love watching previews and I will want to watch the previews (actually it bugs me even more when the previews are hidden in the menu). They might introduce me to a film I did not notice before that looks interesting or make me realize I am not interested in a film I only heard about.

I have heard many people complain about forced advertisements on Blu-ray. For people who are used to video streaming (in which they can watch a movie within 10 seconds) the minutes it takes to watch a movie on Blu-ray is a big negative. I want Ultra HD Blu-ray to do well and in my opinion for that to happen it needs to be convenient.

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

The alternative to this is a format that costs 50 Dollars/Movie...

I think that inconvenient DRM only increases the cost of movies (less people will buy it if it is less convenient and the cost is higher due to the additional DRM). In my opinion the best DRM would be DRM that is so unnoticeable that people wouldn't feel like the movie has DRM.

[bailey1987]

It was an April Fool's joke, Mice have updated their article stating so: http://www.myce.com/news/leaked-emai...tures-2-75561/