4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[bruceames]

Unfortunately we have no say whether online authentication will be required. The potential market is too small for any "boycott" to work. The studios will either shrug their shoulders and accept even smaller sales, or just pull their support entirely. Any support they give UHD BD will be for the benefit of hardware manufs. They would just as soon have any new formats remain exclusive to digital because of greater margins, control and ease of distribution. This is not 2006 anymore. The people with no internet who are interested in 4K are few and far between.

I think we'll be lucky just to get a new disc format in this digital internet age. It's not like Blu-ray set the world on fire. So if it comes with extra protections that reflect 2015 realities, then I won't piss and moan about it. I don't want to have to live the alternative, UHD streaming with a totally inadequate bitrate, or waiting 7 hours for a movie to download.

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Unfortunately we have no say whether online authentication will be required. The potential market is too small for any "boycott" to work. The studios will either shrug their shoulders and accept even smaller sales, or just pull their support entirely. Any support they give UHD BD will be for the benefit of hardware manufs. They would just as soon have any new formats remain exclusive to digital because of greater margins, control and ease of distribution. This is not 2006 anymore. The people with no internet who are interested in 4K are few and far between.

I think we'll be lucky just to get a new disc format in this digital internet age. It's not like Blu-ray set the world on fire. So if it comes with extra protections that reflect 2015 realities, then I won't piss and moan about it. I don't want to have to live the alternative, UHD streaming with a totally inadequate bitrate, or waiting 7 hours for a movie to download.

If there wasn't a format war we would have had this technology by now, the only reason BD's don't have activation and constant internet connection requirements is because of the format war, Sony dangled the threat of this during the format war but it didn't stop them from winning, go figure.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Unfortunately we have no say whether online authentication will be required. The potential market is too small for any "boycott" to work. The studios will either shrug their shoulders and accept even smaller sales, or just pull their support entirely. Any support they give UHD BD will be for the benefit of hardware manufs. They would just as soon have any new formats remain exclusive to digital because of greater margins, control and ease of distribution. This is not 2006 anymore. The people with no internet who are interested in 4K are few and far between.

I think we'll be lucky just to get a new disc format in this digital internet age. It's not like Blu-ray set the world on fire. So if it comes with extra protections that reflect 2015 realities, then I won't piss and moan about it. I don't want to have to live the alternative, UHD streaming with a totally inadequate bitrate, or waiting 7 hours for a movie to download.

I see where you are coming from, despite us both being on very different sides of this issue.

It's also why I say I'll just stick with regular Blu-Ray for however long it lasts if this does have online authentication. As it is, HD streams and downloads are no where near the level of quality of Blu-Ray (heck the recent digital release of the Star Wars movies has each of them at file sizes in the 4GB range, which is a joke... you can fit that amount of data on a single layer DVD!). I doubt that any kind of streaming/downloads of "UHD" content will come close to meeting or beating standard Blu-Ray any time soon, if ever.

At the end of the day, it is what it is. I just think if they force authentication just to play the disc, the format is dead in the water. Most enthusiasts understand the problems and ramifications of this. And it's not an issue of whether or not they have internet... I agree that the vast majority do these days. But the issue is not the user having an internet connection... the issue is there being an authentication server for them to connect to.

At the end of the day, I'm not going to trust my movie collection to such authentication. Especially if the format doesn't sell well enough, ends prematurely, and support for it is cut off early, rendering any movies purchased useless.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Thinking of doing a poll as follows:

Will you folks purchase UHD Blu-ray disc that requires online authentication?

YES, I will buy UHD Blu-ray disc that requires online authentication.

NO, I will not buy UHD Blu-ray disc that requires online authentication.

Any other suggestions to add to the poll?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

unfortunately we have no say whether online authentication will be required. The potential market is too small for any "boycott" to work. The studios will either shrug their shoulders and accept even smaller sales, or just pull their support entirely. Any support they give uhd bd will be for the benefit of hardware manufs. They would just as soon have any new formats remain exclusive to digital because of greater margins, control and ease of distribution. This is not 2006 anymore. The people with no internet who are interested in 4k are few and far between.

I think we'll be lucky just to get a new disc format in this digital internet age. It's not like blu-ray set the world on fire. So if it comes with extra protections that reflect 2015 realities, then i won't piss and moan about it. I don't want to have to live the alternative, uhd streaming with a totally inadequate bitrate, or waiting 7 hours for a movie to download.

+1

[dublinbluray108]

Just to clarify things about my preferences for supporting UHD-BD as I would like to add some more ideas.

I would like to see lifetime support for UHD-BD players to enable playing the UHD-BD discs for the lifetime of all devices with a one time online authentication process for all UHD-BD titles. The UHD-BD alliance & the manufacturers have to come up with a solution for digital bridge to not make it become too complicated for consumers. This should be the way to go so that each manufacturer does not create separate online authentication processes to download keys for these discs.

What I mean is that digital bridge should have a universal standard of authentication for all UHD-BD players. That would mean that all players must have the same authentication methods, the same software, the same updates etc and these updates that should be done OTA.

If I did purchase something related to UHD-BD I would not prefer the idea of having digital bridge work for just one individual player inside the home. All this stuff is going to become wildly dependent on a broadband connection if this idea of separate authentication for each player is accepted for all manufacturers. The studio's idea in this is that once this process is finished and done not a lot of broadband will be used in a person's home. But what if a person's broadband allowance is not at an adequate amount of usage or speed to completely finish the process.

Someone told me over the past week that if you had streamed House of Cards in 4K from Netflix your whole monthly allowance will be gone within a weekend. It is maybe that the amount of data that is used to allow that show being played on there is too large. I think it happens when you only use Fibre power broadband in your home. I may have looked it up wrong but I'm am not so sure about that.

Maybe someone here clarifying that thought will be a good idea.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by dublinbluray108

Just to clarify things about my preferences for supporting UHD-BD as I would like to add some more ideas.

I would like to see lifetime support for UHD-BD players to enable playing the UHD-BD discs for the lifetime of all devices with a one time online authentication process for all UHD-BD titles. The UHD-BD alliance & the manufacturers have to come up with a solution for digital bridge to not make it become too complicated for consumers. This should be the way to go so that each manufacturer does not create separate online authentication processes to download keys for these discs.

What I mean is that digital bridge should have a universal standard of authentication for all UHD-BD players. That would mean that all players must have the same authentication methods, the same software, the same updates etc and these updates that should be done OTA.

If I did purchase something related to UHD-BD I would not prefer the idea of having digital bridge work for just one individual player inside the home. All this stuff is going to become wildly dependent on a broadband connection if this idea of separate authentication for each player is accepted for all manufacturers. The studio's idea in this is that once this process is finished and done not a lot of broadband will be used in a person's home. But what if a person's broadband allowance is not at an adequate amount of usage or speed to completely finish the process.

Someone told me over the past week that if you had streamed House of Cards in 4K from Netflix your whole allowance will be gone within a weekend. It is maybe that the amount of data that is used to allow that show being played on there is too large. I think it happens when you only use Fibre power broadband in your home. I may have looked it up wrong but I'm am not so sure about that.

Maybe someone here clarifying that thought will be a good idea.

The thing is you do not even want a "one-time" online authentication for discs. It just opens the doors to trouble down the road. Mark my words.

[Cevolution]

If it is implemented, there is no chance I will sell any of my current Blu-ray collection, I would keep them as backups in case issues arise later on.

[Geoff D]

I don't see how we could be in any more "trouble" with UHD content than the studios moving to a completely internet-based streaming/DL UHD solution, which is what will happen if UHD BD fails. The conspiracy theorists will have a field day with that one: "did the studios intend to kill off UHD BD from the start?" etc.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

If it is implemented, there is no chance I will sell any of my current Blu-ray collection, I would keep them as backups in case issues arise later on.

That raises a point I was thinking about regarding the issue of ownership: I already own several favourite movies several times over on various forms of physical media, so my sense of entitlement is quite sated and I don't share the sense of moral outrage that others feel when they're told that they possibly won't 'own' these UHD versions. Heck, if they do combo packs with regular BDs then we'll have an edition to have and to hold 'til death do us part right there in the box, it just won't be the UHD copy.

[dublinbluray108]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

The thing is you do not even want a "one-time" online authentication for discs. It just opens the doors to trouble down the road. Mark my words.

I know that I don't want digital bridge to be implemented even though the documents from Sony are saying something that is not either finite nor guaranteed among all studios or including the UHD-BD alliance.

I do not know myself if this idea will work in the end because I feel that there are so many challenges in implementing digital bridge for digital copies in 4K on someone's computer because people who own one may not have sufficient storage nor capability on it to adequately stream 4K video. I have a laptop with Windows 8 Professional at home and I currently do not have capability to stream 4K video on Youtube. Am I heartbroken about not doing that, no, I am not. Another thing is that I can't stream movies or TV shows from Netflix. Am I even more heartbroken about that, No of course not.

I am just telling you what limits I encounter with what I can do with one just piece of hardware that I own so far.

On the physical media side of this format; we know on this site that the minimum storage amount for UHD-BD will be at 66GB and the maximum storage amount will be at 100GB. We can't however know for sure how much storage is needed for a 4K digital copy via digital bridge. If someone uses the new Sandisk 512GB video card to store and play 4K video, what amount of time will people think that same card will last if it costed someone a lot of money to buy from a department store in the 1st place.

Would they think that card will last even one year for 4K storage? Probably not as it is only a starting point in the technology if your thinking to download lots of 4K titles on it. The next question you could ask yourself is for the hard drive storage on your PC, laptop or Mac. Is it currently capable or fast enough of receiving 4K video at any time? Does it need extra requirements like new chipsets, bigger hard drive facilities, new video cards, 4K audio and video codecs etc?

Does your computer need extra requirements to play 4K video smoothly if it's downloaded to your hard drive via a secure server? All of these questions would need to be answered by computer manufacturers and ISPs very quickly.

I think this is needed to be confirmed now and ASAP as I do not want to see this process rushed. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if digital bridge was formed in the lead-up to 8K several years from now.

[Dex Robinson]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That raises a point I was thinking about regarding the issue of ownership: I already own several favourite movies several times over on various forms of physical media, so my sense of entitlement is quite sated and I don't share the sense of moral outrage that others feel when they're told that they possibly won't 'own' these UHD versions. Heck, if they do combo packs with regular BDs then we'll have an edition to have and to hold 'til death do us part right there in the box, it just won't be the UHD copy.

My sense of entitlement remains.

When I buy something, it's mine. It belongs to me to use as I see fit. if it's a disc, I can watch...or use it as a coaster. My choice.

The fact that I have owned something before, in NO way lessens my expectation that I will have full ownership rights again if I buy it on another format.

I owned Blues Brothers on VHS. I owned Blues Brothers on DVD. I own it on HD DVD and I owned it on Blu-ray. I still have all of them (including that 1980's era VHS tape) and I can take them where I want and play them when I want. If I don't have that right with UHD BD then I simply won't buy it.

Seriously, how many consumers will honestly say that they don't feel that they have an entitlement to ownership because they have owned a movie previously on another format? Maybe there are six people on the planet who feel that way...which would make for an interesting market share.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

I think we'll be lucky just to get a new disc format in this digital internet age. It's not like Blu-ray set the world on fire. So if it comes with extra protections that reflect 2015 realities, then I won't piss and moan about it. I don't want to have to live the alternative, UHD streaming with a totally inadequate bitrate, or waiting 7 hours for a movie to download.

So long as you're comfortable presumably spending $30-40 on a UHD disc with all of the inevitable limitations which have been discussed - as well as the distinct possibilty of your "collection" of UHD BDs becoming very expensive coasters if/when the plug is pulled on the format which could happen rather early for a number of reasons - great. But will you then piss and moan about it?

The pissing and moaning needs to be done now. A strong statement needs to be made to the studios and BDA that this will not be accepted or otherwise they can eat the format for all I care. I will just ride out Blu-ray for as long as I can and not worry about those encodes vanishing one day. But, that's just my take.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

So long as you're comfortable presumably spending $30-40 on a UHD disc with all of the inevitable limitations which have been discussed - as well as the distinct possibilty of your "collection" of UHD BDs becoming very expensive coasters if/when the plug is pulled on the format which could happen rather early for a number of reasons - great. But will you then piss and moan about it?

The pissing and moaning needs to be done now. A strong statement needs to be made to the studios and BDA that this will not be accepted or otherwise they can eat the format for all I care. I will just ride out Blu-ray for as long as I can and not worry about those encodes vanishing one day. But, that's just my take.

I not going to worry about things that are beyond my control. Life is too short for that. There is risk in everything you buy. If internet authentication is part of the price for being able to enjoy the best possible A/V experience available, then hey, that's a risk I'm willing to take. I'm not sitting that one out because I have some control issue hang-up. Quality is just too important for me. As someone else said, YMMV. Do what you gotta do.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

...Watch the soundbites at the end for comments from the first 65" and 77" buyers.

FIRST US CONSUMERS PURCHASE ULTRA HD 4K OLED TVs - YouTube

I think I dozed off during the first 30 sec.
As far as the buyers go, just wondering who is richer amongst the rich people set. Per capital income of people living in Santa Monica (Video & Audio Center) greater or lesser than fellow Insider Robert Zohn’s Value Electronics folks in Scarsdale?

And as far as global disposable income goes, who (what TV retailer) rules in Switzerland …http://www.businessinsider.com/dispo...graphic-2015-3

Any Swiss members here?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Thinking of doing a poll as follows:

Will you folks purchase UHD Blu-ray disc that requires online authentication?
YES, I will buy UHD Blu-ray disc that requires online authentication.
NO, I will not buy UHD Blu-ray disc that requires online authentication.

Any other suggestions to add to the poll?

No, that should make it easy for everyone to vote and get some hard data.
Where's the poll?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

My sense of entitlement remains.

When I buy something, it's mine. It belongs to me to use as I see fit. if it's a disc, I can watch...or use it as a coaster. My choice.

The fact that I have owned something before, in NO way lessens my expectation that I will have full ownership rights again if I buy it on another format.

I owned Blues Brothers on VHS. I owned Blues Brothers on DVD. I own it on HD DVD and I owned it on Blu-ray. I still have all of them (including that 1980's era VHS tape) and I can take them where I want and play them when I want. If I don't have that right with UHD BD then I simply won't buy it.

Seriously, how many consumers will honestly say that they don't feel that they have an entitlement to ownership because they have owned a movie previously on another format? Maybe there are six people on the planet who feel that way...which would make for an interesting market share.

I didn't say that my feelings applied to all consumers. To be honest Dex, given how so many people on here have been putting down 4K as a display format for the last few years - whilst simultaneously championing new 4K transfers, go figure - I'd be amazed if UHD BD got that many punters out of BRDC's membership. Well, I'll be one of 'em, anyway.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I think I dozed off during the first 30 sec.
As far as the buyers go, just wondering who is richer amongst the rich people set. Per capital income of people living in Santa Monica (Video & Audio Center) greater or lesser than fellow Insider Robert Zohn’s Value Electronics folks in Scarsdale?

And as far as global disposable income goes, who (what TV retailer) rules in Switzerland …http://www.businessinsider.com/dispo...graphic-2015-3

Any Swiss members here?

Median Household Income in and around both Scarsdale and Santa Monica is about $250,000. Per Capita Income isn't relevant.

http://www.city-data.com/income/inco...alifornia.html
http://www.city-data.com/city/Scarsdale-New-York.html

By 2016 these displays will be more affordable. The 65" and 77" shown sold in the video were $12K and $25K at the time (3rd quarter 2014). The 2015 65" Flat OLED can be preordered from an authorized retailer for $7K, delivered and the 77" for $22.5K. Last year's 55" FHD OLED recently sold at an 8 hr in store Frys sale for $1,499.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I think I dozed off during the first 30 sec.

It was infinitely more exciting than soccer.

[Dreamliner330]

I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to reduce my Blu-ray collection to my "gotta have it's" so I don't lose my shirt when 4KBD's start rolling out. I gotta say though, I despise ANY REQUIRED Internet access for anything, including this authentication crap.

Remember BD-Live?

10 years from now things you buy in November won't work if activation is required.

If Authentication is required, guaranteed future headline:

"WB to end authentication service, be sure to download your authentications before xx/xx/xxxx and hope your player doesn't ever break"

local > cloud

Nintendo online for original Wii: Dead
Target Ticket: Dead

Services only last as long as money is flowing in.