4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Geoff D]

Sony in "forward thinking" shocker.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Sony in "forward thinking" shocker.

Don't be too harsh on them if you want to actually see many 100GB UHD discs produced (as opposed to only 66/DL).

[jono3000]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Don't be too harsh on them if you want to actually see many 100GB UHD discs produced (as opposed to only 66/DL).

At this point I'd be happy to see a single UHD disc produced!

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by jono3000

At this point I'd be happy to see a single UHD disc produced!

Yeah, and without online DRM... otherwise, who cares?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Don't be too harsh on them if you want to actually see many 100GB UHD discs produced (as opposed to only 66/DL).

Call me crazy but I'd love to see some public announcements from Sony re: their work on UHD BD and to have a bit more cheerleading of the format. It's clear from the various leaked documents that they've been working on it for a while - as befits a major player in the BDA - but their public stance has been one of utter indifference, if not outright negativity to the idea of 4K on disc (what with them having their own 4K VOD delivery platform, in the US anyway).

If it comes to fruition and actually makes some headway in the market then I'll give Sony all the credit in the world, but not yet.

[Mavrick]

Originally Posted by moviedude 2K15

Do you guys think 4K Blu-ray will have blue cases like the current releases or will they change the case color to differentiate the new format from regular Blu-ray? Also what color would you want to see the cases be if it matters at all to you?

Black with gold logo

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Call me crazy but I'd love to see some public announcements from Sony re: their work on UHD BD and to have a bit more cheerleading of the format. It's clear from the various leaked documents that they've been working on it for a while - as befits a major player in the BDA - but their public stance has been one of utter indifference, if not outright negativity to the idea of 4K on disc (what with them having their own 4K VOD delivery platform, in the US anyway).

If it comes to fruition and actually makes some headway in the market then I'll give Sony all the credit in the world, but not yet.

Fair assessment.

[raygendreau]

I just finished reading a 288 pg document covering the BDA 45 meeting.(July 2014 in Montreal) The plan at that time called for Three new discs; BD+HDR, UHD BD, and UHD BD+HDR. The Digital Bridge would be mandatory on both of the new UHD discs.

I have decided not to post links to any Wikileaks sourced Sony docs. after reading this:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...es-information

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

I just finished reading a 288 pg document covering the BDA 45 meeting.(July 2014 in Montreal) The plan at that time called for Three new discs; BD+HDR, UHD BD, and UHD BD+HDR. The Digital Bridge would be mandatory on both of the new UHD discs.

I have decided not to post links to any Wikileaks sourced Sony docs. after reading this:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...es-information

Interesting stuff, sounds like it's going to be a staggered launch again, I wouldn't be surprised if a format war happened, no doubt BD+HDR, UHD BD and UHDBD+HDR will be released under profiles 6,7 & 8 in any given order followed by a profile 9 that is audio only.

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by moviedude 2K15

Do you guys think 4K Blu-ray will have blue cases like the current releases or will they change the case color to differentiate the new format from regular Blu-ray? Also what color would you want to see the cases be if it matters at all to you?

I have asked this a couple of times, it's one of the aspects that's interesting me the most at the minute as the spec seems to be pretty much locked down, I predict that they will resemble PS4 cases which if you have not seen them are the same size as Blu-ray cases but they lack to bar at the top which displays the Blu-ray logo.

Personally I wouldn't mind a complete change, I think DVD had it to be honest.

[bailey1987]

If BD+HDR is a standard 1080p Blu-ray with the addition of HDR then there would be little point in it as it would require a new BD player which if you're planning on buying a BD player at that point you may as well go Ultra HD Blu-ray as long as the price is reasonable. I would hope that Ultra HD Blu-ray launches at no more than the top end Blu-ray player prices.

Edit: even if a film was only shot at 1080p it would no doubt have a higher colour space and if it was anywhere near 1080p it would be 2K like the star wars prequels, I highly suspect that all films will benefit from Ultra HD Blu-ray even if the pixels are not 2160p

[Geoff D]

What's far more worrying is the disc makers were/are getting cold feet over the 100GB production lines, none of which even existed as of July 2014. As I suspected, the 100GB discs aren't gonna be ready for prime time because no-one wants to make the huge investment needed to make it happen, though the BDA 45 document does make mention of Sony developing their own production line which would not be made commercially available to other replicators, as hinted at by Penton above.

The BDA is fully aware that being restricted to 66GB discs will cause compromises in terms of HDR further down the road, as well as being able to fit on additional languages and bonus content (or lack thereof), which would lead to multi-disc releases (as I mentioned in the linked post above) being much more common. The investment required for a single 100GB production line capable of 100,000 units per day is a cool $17M (as opposed to a 'mere' $1.75M for a new 66GB line), all for a format that could have a very limited appeal and thus a limited shelf life in general, so it's no wonder no-one wants to take the plunge.

Add on the DRM - the document makes another mention of time release keys - to a possible prevalence of 66GB discs (meaning compromised presentations more often than not) and UHD BD is heading for disaster, especially if they persist with three new types of presentation on different discs because the market will become so fractured and piecemeal that it'll hardly be worth bothering with.

[Geoff D]

And I know I said a couple pages back that I didn't have a problem with changing a disc mid-movie if needed - especially at the outset of the format for something with a built-in break point like the intermission in Lawrence of Arabia - but I certainly wouldn't want it to become the norm with EVERY movie that's over a certain running time. Otherwise UHD BD really WILL become the new Laserdisc.

[bailey1987]

The whole Ultra HD Blu-ray thing is causing me no end of stress and anxiety

As for Europe ditching physical discs if they could figure out a way to end piracy they would all be right back at some point, I suspect that DVD will have been long since discontinued by then.

[Geoff D]

Another thing mentioned in the document was how streamed 4K was basically equivalent to 2K BD in terms of picture quality with much better audio (natch) for the latter. I've been very sceptical of 4K streaming in general and that just confirms it. If UHD BD is a bust then there's no way I'm turning to 4K VOD, so it looks as if upscaled 2K BD and 4K satellite TV transmissions is about as good as it's gonna get for mah 4K TV.

[bailey1987]

I'm predicting that VR will figure into UHD somehow, just thought I would throw that in there

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Another thing mentioned in the document was how streamed 4K was basically equivalent to 2K BD in terms of picture quality with much better audio (natch) for the latter. I've been very sceptical of 4K streaming in general and that just confirms it. If UHD BD is a bust then there's no way I'm turning to 4K VOD, so it looks as if upscaled 2K BD and 4K satellite TV transmissions is about as good as it's gonna get for mah 4K TV.

I can't help but admit that I am glad to hear that streamed 4K looks like 2K, I like collecting films I like and I am sick to my back teeth from all the nay sayers who probably never had a DVD player or watched a film at home in surround sound and couldn't tell you the last time they saw a film legally.

[bruceames]

Jeez, no wonder why the studios still aren't saying anything. Too much stuff still up in the air.

I agree 4k streaming = 2k BD. But that's actually saying a lot, and when they add HDR it will look better. I think for UHD in the digital world that downloads will be for owning and streaming for renting. And that the Digital Bridge feature in UHD BD players will be able to download movies as well, to own (and perhaps even rent), as well as copy movies from discs. At least I think the studios will want that kind of integration, in order to appeal to a wider market and to make more movies available (much easier to make a movie available by download than by disc, and many will not be feasible via disc due to low sales potential).

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

Interesting stuff, sounds like it's going to be a staggered launch again, I wouldn't be surprised if a format war happened, no doubt BD+HDR, UHD BD and UHDBD+HDR will be released under profiles 6,7 & 8 in any given order followed by a profile 9 that is audio only.

I think you can expect premium pricing on the +HDR discs and some interesting combo packs at launch.

[Geoff D]

I hope that the talk of three formats is more of a branding exercise than a taste of things to come, because the market simply won't be able to support six competing disc versions of any one movie (DVD, BD, 3D BD, HDR BD, UHD, HDR UHD). For example, a UHD film mastered in HDR and branded as such should be a single release because it's also carrying the metadata to enable playback on legacy SDR screens, whereas something mastered solely in SDR would naturally be branded with the standard UHD rating.