4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Geoff D]

Yup. OTT is gaining ground every single day that the BDA drag their feet, and personally I think the lethargy is less an altruistic intent to get it right and more the result of trying to wrangle the desires of every company and studio. Hell, last time they did this dance we got two separate HD formats so it's no wonder it's such an arduous task to get them all singing from the same hymn sheet - and OTT has already given them all a chance to exploit 4K delivery for their own ends.

The need to get this format out sooner rather than later was recognised in one of the leaked documents from Sony, they said that it needs to be out by mid 2014 to give it a chance of claiming the high ground over OTT 4K services. But we're looking at going almost two years past that point before UHD BD is finally ready to rumble, and with all those 4K apps built into TVs it has most definitely got competition. Not in terms of the quality of the service to be sure, but most regular people don't give a toss about the numbers game. If it looks good to them then it looks good to them.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yup. OTT is gaining ground every single day that the BDA drag their feet, and personally I think the lethargy is less an altruistic intent to get it right and more the result of trying to wrangle the desires of every company and studio. Hell, last time they did this dance we got two separate HD formats so it's no wonder it's such an arduous task to get them all singing from the same hymn sheet - and OTT has already given them all a chance to exploit 4K delivery for their own ends.

The need to get this format out sooner rather than later was recognised in one of the leaked documents from Sony, they said that it needs to be out by mid 2014 to give it a chance of claiming the high ground over OTT 4K services. But we're looking at going almost two years past that point before UHD BD is finally ready to rumble, and with all those 4K apps built into TVs it has most definitely got competition. Not in terms of the quality of the service to be sure, but most regular people don't give a toss about the numbers game. If it looks good to them then it looks good to them.

If you look at all the leaked documents and quotes from the Fox president you get this: How to overcome Chicken and egg adoption due to 1080P being "good enough" and UHD (4K) requiring a new TV. The Wiki leaked Panasonic UHD pdf was all about the hardware providing multiple resolutions including 1080P and encryption schemes for streaming, including Playready WMDRM (up to 1080i) and ND (1080P to 4K). Taken down was a Sony PDF on UHD blu-ray mentioning Playready ND streaming to handhelds then Miracast from them to HD & UHD TVs. Here is another one on page 7 mentioning streaming to handhelds. Microsoft released the Playready ND porting kit for Android and iOS October 2013.

Originally Posted by http://www.cepro.com/article/fox_home_entertainment_proposes_blu-ray_movie_servers_as_uhd_digital_bridge/

By Julie Jacobson, October 21, 2013
Mike Dunn, president of 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, thinks we need an easier way to manage high-def content. He is calling on Hollywood and consumer electronics manufacturers to work together to create a Blu-ray player with terabytes of space for storing and managing content, including 4K Ultra HD.

During his keynote presentation at the CEA Industry Forum in Los Angeles this week, Dunn spoke of an “entertainment hub” that ushers consumers into the digital world. It would store and make TV shows and movies available to any device.

“Consumers would have the ability to copy their physical discs and store and manage their entire digital library in one centralized location—managed in the living room,” he says, “where most content is viewed on the big screen.”

To that end, he says, 20th Century Fox recently is launching an “Innovation Lab” to foster “relationships with CE and tech companies to start early in the innovation cycle.”

Anyway, he says this “Digital Bridge is really the platform for the future” and that “we must build it together.”

And then, he adds, “Everyone can innovate around that for the next 10 years.”

Windows 10 PCs, XB1 and PS4 will be UHD blu-ray players with Digital bridge supporting in home streaming with Playready ND. They will be DVRs and Media hubs for Cable and Antenna TV. This is what the Fox President is mentioning above....When?

1) In 2016 the FCC will authorize a Downloadable Security scheme to replace the cable card and that's when Cable TV DVRs are possible.
2) The XB1 will support Antenna TV DVR for 1080P with the next update. 1080P for Antenna TV is only possible with ATSC 2.0 which uses the blu-ray codec.
3) The Vidipath/DLNA - Playready Ecosystem allows sharing media between certified platforms in the home. Currently Cable TV DVRs are mandated to support it by the FCC but no clients have been released, they are waiting on something too!

I think early 2016 possibly at CES this will all come out and early 2016 we will get our UHD blu-ray players; price $350 for a PS4. You are going to need a 5 TB external USB drive ($138).

The PS4 will support 4K blu-ray

Interesting finds showing PS4, XB1 and PS3 media plans including TV Tuners with a Downloadable security scheme and Vidipath

One of the moderators on this board posted this:

Originally Posted by https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=256623

I've been informed that PC's will not require new Blu-ray drives to playback 4k media/bluray. PC's will only need software that supports 4K (PowerDVD 14 already does this). So we have it then....

Microsoft posted this in a Playready whitepaper:

From Microsoft's Playready 3 site: Supporting In-Home Content Distribution with PlayReady for Network Devices page 14

"The game console, acting as a PlayReady ND transmitter, has obtained a license from the service and it sends media files to valid PlayReady ND receivers that are part of the same in-home network. It also uses PlayReady technologies to build and issue local licenses to authorized receiving devices. Note that this model can also be applied to both live streams, video-on-demand and DVR content."

So there we have it....

[MisterXDTV]

I said this many times: the most important disc player in the world is called Playstation. History tell us this:

PSX 1995: CD (bye bye music cassettes for music and cartridges for games!)

PS2 2000: DVD (bye bye VHS!)

PS3 2006: Blu-ray (HD video and gaming at Home)

PS4 2013: Blu-ray (???)

Launching a new format in 2016 that doesn't support PS4 (and Xbox One) makes no sense:

With PS4 and Xbox One we are talking about 40M consoles sold worldwide in less than 2 years.
UHD Disc compatibility would have meant 40M players ready to be used at launch.

But hardware manufacturers are desperate for money. so they are making stand-alone players that nobody is going to buy.

Instead these consoles will probably receive a free firmware upgrade to enable 4K video playback via streaming (including HEVC support)

Great strategy and timing BDA!!!

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

I said these many times: the most important disc player in the world is called Playstation. History tell us this:

PSX 1995: CD (bye bye music cassettes for music and cartridges for games!)

PS2 2000: DVD (bye bye VHS!)

PS3 2006: Blu-ray (HD video and gaming at Home)

PS4 2013: Blu-ray (???)

Launching a new format in 2016 that doesn't support PS4 (and Xbox One) makes no sense:

With PS4 and Xbox One we are talking about 40M consoles sold worldwide in less than 2 years.
UHD Disc compatibility would have meant 40M players ready to be used at launch.

But hardware manufacturers are desperate for money. so they are making stand-alone players that nobody is going to buy.

Instead these consoles will probably receive a free firmware upgrade to enable 4K video playback via streaming (including HEVC support)

Great strategy and timing BDA!!!

What's worse is the thought that PS5 will only support Ultra HD and not 8K.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

What's worse is the thought that PS5 will only support Ultra HD and not 8K.

That's not a problem as 8K is a pipe dream for the next decade: I'm not sure a PS5 will have a disc drive at all!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

So there we have it....

So you're agreeing with my post then?

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

I said this many times: the most important disc player in the world is called Playstation. History tell us this:

PSX 1995: CD (bye bye music cassettes for music and cartridges for games!)

PS2 2000: DVD (bye bye VHS!)

PS3 2006: Blu-ray (HD video and gaming at Home)

PS4 2013: Blu-ray (???)

Launching a new format in 2016 that doesn't support PS4 (and Xbox One) makes no sense:

With PS4 and Xbox One we are talking about 40M consoles sold worldwide in less than 2 years.
UHD Disc compatibility would have meant 40M players ready to be used at launch.

But hardware manufacturers are desperate for money. so they are making stand-alone players that nobody is going to buy.

Instead these consoles will probably receive a free firmware upgrade to enable 4K video playback via streaming (including HEVC support)

Great strategy and timing BDA!!!

DTLA in 2010 had a paper mentioning streaming using DTCP-IP in the home from blu-ray players (page 7). No ecosystem developed then so it languished. It's proposed again and maybe it will take off this time.

I think the microsoft-sony.com domain registration by Microsoft is about the XB1 and PS4 using the same standards...supporting the same ecosystem so this time it takes off.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

So you're agreeing with my post then?

Agree, I've been wondering at the delays too. I thought June for Vidipath...no go, October for UHD (DRM, codecs, HTML5 <video> MSE) OTT streaming ...may be coming and at least an announcement at the end of October by Sony and Microsoft that Firmware updates for the XB1 and PS4 were coming to support vidipath and maybe early 2016 to support UHD blu-ray with digital bridge.

We can't get ooVoo for the PS4 till some of the above are in the browser and part of the WebMAF framework. When that happens we will get a new Netflix HD/UHD app.

[bruceames]

Reason why they're dragging their feet is not the lack of a format war but a complete lack of enthusiasm by the content providers.

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

That's not a problem as 8K is a pipe dream for the next decade: I'm not sure a PS5 will have a disc drive at all!

8K will probably never have a physical format, except for maybe some retailers loading the files onto flash drives or cards.

The PS5 could theoretically be 8K compatible if a standard comes out for an AV cable that is 8K compatible.

We'll see. 8K adoption is probably closer to the PS6 timeframe though.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

DTLA in 2010 had a paper mentioning streaming using DTCP-IP in the home from blu-ray players (page 7). No ecosystem developed then so it languished. It's proposed again and maybe it will take off this time.

I think the microsoft-sony.com domain registration by Microsoft is about the XB1 and PS4 using the same standards...supporting the same ecosystem so this time it takes off.

Jeff, I don't understand reading your posts: do you think that the current PS4 will be able to read UHD BD Discs???

I don't think it's possible at all

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Jeff, I don't understand reading your posts: do you think that the current PS4 will be able to read UHD BD Discs???

I don't think it's possible at all

Yes Windows 10 PCs, PS4 and XB1 will be firmware upgraded to support 4K blu-ray with digital bridge.

I already cited where you can find proof of this both from a Moderator on this site and from other sources.

A 2010 or older blu-ray drive (with firmware update) can read a UHD blu-ray disk but not reliably. In 2010 four things happened: Note: all this occurred in 2010!!!!!

1) Sony released the BD-R and BDXL whitepaper to upgrade the specs for blu-ray drives to read 4 layers.
2) Sony and Panasonic released a new laser with greater output and life.
3) Sony filed a patent to address older drives not reliably reading BDXL disks. They made a distinction between Ver1 drives 2010 and older and newer drives that followed the BDXL whitepaper specs. They proposed inverting the tracks on BDXL disks so that 2010 and older drives couldn't read them at all.
4) Panasonic released a firmware update tweak for blu-ray drives that allowed 33GB/layer.

By 2012 all blu-ray drives being sold could read UHD blu-ray disks reliably. Players still would have to support HEVC, new copy protection schemes and more but for a PC, XB1 or PS4 that is just firmware.

Commercial disk manufacturing equipment started shipping in 2013: Singulus Develops Technology for 100 GB, 4K Triple-Layer Blu-Ray Discs in 2013. In this Cite is this:

This favorable trend is amplified by the market launch of the new ultra-high definition television technology and the upcoming market introduction of the new gaming consoles Playstation PS 4 by Sony and Microsoft’s Xbox One. Both gaming consoles are even expected to be equipped with a Blu-ray drive with 4K support to win the consumers’ favor.

[MisterXDTV]

I don't think it will happen for PS4 and XONE but I hope for BDA you are right.....

[bailey1987]

Did everyone catch this: http://macvideopro.digitalmedianet.c...n-Demo-4113424

official site: http://www.jargon-tech.com/website/i...tml#faq_anchor

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

Yes Windows 10 PCs, PS4 and XB1 will be firmware upgraded to support 4K blu-ray with digital bridge.

I already cited where you can find proof of this both from a Moderator on this site and from other sources.

A 2010 or older blu-ray drive (with firmware update) can read a UHD blu-ray disk but not reliably. In 2010 four things happened: Note: all this occurred in 2010!!!!!

1) Sony released the BD-R and BDXL whitepaper to upgrade the specs for blu-ray drives to read 4 layers.
2) Sony and Panasonic released a new laser with greater output and life.
3) Sony filed a patent to address older drives not reliably reading BDXL disks. They made a distinction between Ver1 drives 2010 and older and newer drives that followed the BDXL whitepaper specs. They proposed inverting the tracks on BDXL disks so that 2010 and older drives couldn't read them at all.
4) Panasonic released a firmware update tweak for blu-ray drives that allowed 33GB/layer.

By 2012 all blu-ray drives being sold could read UHD blu-ray disks reliably. Players still would have to support HEVC, new copy protection schemes and more but for a PC, XB1 or PS4 that is just firmware.

Commercial disk manufacturing equipment started shipping in 2013: Singulus Develops Technology for 100 GB, 4K Triple-Layer Blu-Ray Discs in 2013. In this Cite is this:

I hope there is truth in this, I think by the end my fat PS3 could do every feature of Blu-Ray but it was gimped to begin with, it got there in the end though.

There's also the PS4 Bluetooth remote control that's being released soon, it could be a omen. http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2015/1...er-this-month/

[Derb]

Originally Posted by bailey1987

I hope there is truth in this, I think by the end my fat PS3 could do every feature of Blu-Ray but it was gimped to begin with, it got there in the end though.

There's also the PS4 Bluetooth remote control that's being released soon, it could be a omen. http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2015/1...er-this-month/

Would be nice but it's a PDP product & we already have third party remotes for PS4.. though this one does look sexy.

[Mavrick]

Originally Posted by Derb

Would be nice but it's a PDP product & we already have third party remotes for PS4.. though this one does look sexy.

Yeah that remote was announced months ago around the same time as E3. I believe we spoke about it in one of the PS4 threads but it's only just getting mainstream attention because Sony finally decided to run a blog post about it.

[Coenskubrick]

I find all this talk about future 8K formats absolutely laughable. The only thing that will ever be in 8k are tech demos for showing off and maybe some DCPs. Can't believe people think 8k home media could have any practical benefit.

[Herb and Skills]

I spoke with a sales rep at magnolia today. He has all the info. Players between $500 and $1000. Discs will be $49.99! Wtf? Too rich for my blood.

[sonicyogurt]

Originally Posted by Mavrick

but it's only just getting mainstream attention because Sony finally decided to run a blog post about it.

To be fair, that PS4 remote is just now being released. (I don't think Amazon is even shipping them until later this month...it's just a GameStop thing for the moment.) For a product like this, I don't think you're going to draw a lot of attention months in advance outside enthusiast press.