4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Mavrick]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Its gone waaaaay beyond that.

Im sub'd for info updates, not daily measuring contests...

I'm not sure what you mean, there hasn't been any fanboy comments from what I've seen, just discussion of the tech and wether or not it's possible to be updated or not or when we could see new hardware.

Although if it's too off topic you'd have report the offending posts so a moderator with privileges could clean up the thread.

[elwaylite]

Once you get into PS4 vs Xbox unit sales discussion and PC gaming, we are off topic.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Any reason a 4K blu-ray thread in the Blu-ray Tech forum has turned into a Gamer war?

Because the industry consensus was that the PS4 and XB1 would support UHD Blu-ray and as in the past millions of game consoles (PS3) supporting blu-ray helped with it's adoption.

Originally Posted by http://www.4gamer.net/games/999/G999902/20150211003/

Nishikawa Zenji of 3DGE:!? PS4 also supports inevitable sudden 4K Blu-ray standard appeared in the Xbox One also Maichen is to explore the possibility of bringing about a revolution in television and display

Originally Posted by http://www.singulus.com/en/press-news/press-releases/press-release/article/singulus-technologies-presents-production-technology-for-100-gb-blu-ray-disc/7.html

This favorable trend is amplified by the market launch of the new ultra-high definition television technology and the upcoming market introduction of the new gaming consoles Playstation PS 4 by Sony and Microsoft’s Xbox One. Both gaming consoles are even expected to be equipped with a Blu-ray drive with 4K support to win the consumers’ favor.

Originally Posted by http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/691088-xbox-one/69502816

XBOX ONE SUPPORTS BOTH 3D AND 4K, INCLUDING 4K FOR BLU-RAY

Originally Posted by https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=256623

I've been informed that PC's will not require new Blu-ray drives to playback 4k media/bluray. PC's will only need software that supports 4K.

For the first time Microsoft is including a blu-ray drive in the XB1 and will provide a Player for HD and UHD blu-ray with Windows 10. There is no mention of a special player being needed for OEM platforms that support Windows 10. Older PCs with a new dGPU and Windows 10 should be able to support UHD also.

Besides PCs, PS4 and XB1 helping with adoption, the UHD blu-ray digital bridge is also designed to help with UHD blu-ray adoption.

Originally Posted by http://www.cepro.com/article/fox_home_entertainment_proposes_blu-ray_movie_servers_as_uhd_digital_bridge/

By Julie Jacobson, October 21, 2013
Mike Dunn, president of 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, thinks we need an easier way to manage high-def content. He is calling on Hollywood and consumer electronics manufacturers to work together to create a Blu-ray player with terabytes of space for storing and managing content, including 4K Ultra HD.

During his keynote presentation at the CEA Industry Forum in Los Angeles this week, Dunn spoke of an “entertainment hub” that ushers consumers into the digital world. It would store and make TV shows and movies available to any device.

“Consumers would have the ability to copy their physical discs and store and manage their entire digital library in one centralized location—managed in the living room,” he says, “where most content is viewed on the big screen.”

To that end, he says, 20th Century Fox recently is launching an “Innovation Lab” to foster “relationships with CE and tech companies to start early in the innovation cycle.”

Anyway, he says this “Digital Bridge is really the platform for the future” and that “we must build it together.”

And then, he adds, “Everyone can innovate around that for the next 10 years.”

There is plenty of support for this in papers by Microsoft and Digital bridge proposals.

Microsoft has provided porting kits for Playready ND (UHD in home streaming) to iOS and Android and Playready ND has been mentioned in Game Consoles, and by UHD blu-ray proposals for the digital bridge. An ecosystem for in home commercial media streaming called Vidipath using Microsoft's Playready 2.5 which includes WMDRM10 is supposed to be implemented soon, Cable TV already supports it. The DLNA and DTLA which developed the Vidipath open source standards based on DLNA 2.0 is in the process of adopting UHD and that will be DLNA 3.0 which Microsoft has likely developed Playready ND to support.

Sony and Microsoft are supporting Vidipath for the PS3, PS4, XB1 and PCs and since early on it was mentioned that the PS4 will support UHD personal media and at some future date will support commercial UHD it must have a HDMI 2 port and support HEVC AND support DLNA 3

Now an article comes out that states the PS4 won't support UHD blu-ray but it's already been mentioned that the XB1 will support UHD Blu-ray and Playready ND. This leaves the PS4 out of this ecosystem for UHD unless it's just as a client from a XB1, PC or expensive upper end UHD blu-ray player streaming using Playready ND. Sony can't support their Android phones, tablets and TVs that support UHD with a game console that can Play UHD blu-ray with digital bridge (STORE, transcode and DASH serve). The Sony customer will need a PC or XB1.

Will this increase XB1 sales? Yes
Will it eventually impact PS4 sales? Yes
Is the AAA game console market unlimited? No
Is this a really really stupid move on Sony's part if true? Yes

Is it true, I don't think so, the author of the article (Nishikawa Zenji) has problems with this also as he cites a previous article of his predicting the PS4 and XB1 would support UHD Blu-ray (above) and asks Ito if he is lying. So Sony purchased special blu-ray drives that can't support 3 layers and Microsoft purchased standard drives that can support 3 layers. Ito says Sony doesn't have a HEVC accelerator yet

"The official answer is that the PS4 supports 4K output but for personal contents, like photos or videos, commercial media will wait for some future date. Not games. PS4 games do not work on 4K." says Shuhei Yoshida, president of Sony Worldwide Studios, to Polygon.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Any reason a 4K blu-ray thread in the Blu-ray Tech forum has turned into a Gamer war?

jeepers , reading the 2nd link in ray’s post near the top of the last page you would think there is a calibrator war going on somewhere (SpectraCal vs. Light Illusion (http://www.lightillusion.com/ ) ? i think someone over there at SC needs some anger management counseling prior to writing their blog releases.

note: with regards to grading rather than calibrating , there is an old 23 page NDA agreement that’s been applicable to some companies who started producing DV HDR content months ago.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by sonicyogurt

This is patently false, and the links you provided in no way represent "the industry consensus".

One of the cites is from the company that developed the equipment to manufacture 3 layer COMMERCIAL disks that are used for UHD blu-ray media. = Industry insider

The hardware to make 3 layer disks started shipping in late 2013.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

Now an article comes out that states the PS4 won't support UHD blu-ray but it's already been mentioned that the XB1 will support UHD Blu-ray and Playready ND.

The PS4/XB1 doesn't have the CPU processing power needed to decode 4K HEVC at 100 Mbps with 10-bit video. To be capable of that the game consoles would need a fixed function HEVC decoder and we only started to see CPUs/GPUs with that this year. So to add Ultra HD Blu-ray support to the PS4/XB1 would require a major hardware revision. Personally I think that is very unlikely for the XB1 but that it will eventually happen for the PS4.

[kristoffer]

Originally Posted by sonicyogurt

That's what we've been talking about for the past few pages.

I know.

[Derb]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

1) nope one will stay in front
2) you assume that everyone will upgrade, this is a falicy

1) Right, neck n neck.
2) When devs make popular AAA games only for 8th gen, you better believe "most" will upgrade & the rest will play Halo 3 or stream Netflix.

[sonicyogurt]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

I know.

I guess this didn't come through, but I mean that exact link is what started the conversation a couple days ago (post #4120). No big deal, though! It happens.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Derb

1) Right, neck n neck.
2) When devs make popular AAA games only for 8th gen, you better believe "most" will upgrade & the rest will play Halo 3 or stream Netflix.

I worked high up in games retail and PR for 10 years, but you continue to tell me your thoughts

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

I worked high up in games retail and PR for 10 years, but you continue to tell me your thoughts

Every console generation has sold more than the previous one. Why do you think that this trend will not continue?

[Derb]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

I worked high up in games retail and PR for 10 years, but you continue to tell me your thoughts

Would explain your social skills.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

The PS4/XB1 doesn't have the CPU processing power needed to decode 4K HEVC at 100 Mbps with 10-bit video. To be capable of that the game consoles would need a fixed function HEVC decoder and we only started to see CPUs/GPUs with that this year. So to add Ultra HD Blu-ray support to the PS4/XB1 would require a major hardware revision. Personally I think that is very unlikely for the XB1 but that it will eventually happen for the PS4.

Kaveri and Carrizo have Xtensa processors on a ARM AXI bus to support HEVC. Kaveri's UVD4 (Xtensa processor) is on 100% of the time to decode HEVC and Carrizo's UVD6 is on 30% of the time. The Xtensa processors in the UVD are also used for gesture recognition and True Audio. Both the PS4 and XB1 have confirmed Xtensa processors for Audio and that same processor can be used for other features. Sony says the Xtensa processor for audio in the PS4 can decode 200 MP3 streams and there are only 22 virtual audio channels which middle ware converts into a much lower number of channels.

Originally Posted by http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-orbis-unmasked-what-to-expect-from-next-gen-console

PS4 Additional hardware: GPU-like Compute module, some resources reserved by the OS
"However, there's a fair amount of "secret sauce" in Orbis and we can disclose details on one of the more interesting additions. Paired up with the eight AMD cores, we find a bespoke GPU-like "Compute" module, designed to ease the burden on certain operations. We're assured that this is bespoke hardware that is not a part of the main graphics pipeline but we remain rather mystified by its standalone inclusion, bearing in mind Compute functions could be run off the main graphics cores and that devs could have the option to utilise that power for additional graphical grunt, if they so chose." For the PS4 we know Tensilica DSPs are in the PS4 likely in the ARM Southbridge and maybe Xtensa IVPs.

Durango additional graphics hardware - "rumours have circulated for quite some time that it is some way behind Orbis, but equally there has been the suggestion that the GPU itself is supplemented by additional task-specific hardware. We could not confirm this, but an ex-Microsoft staffer with a prior relationship with the Xbox team says that two of these modules are graphics-related."

After the NDA expired Microsoft published this: See the HEVC game streaming from XB1 to windows 10. It's not supported the other way from a Windows 10 computer to XB1 as most PCs would have to use the GPU for HEVC and game performance would be crippled.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Every console generation has sold more than the previous one. Why do you think that this trend will not continue?

Where did I say that? I said that not all people will upgrade.
Also smartphones have made a huge impact.
For example consoles don't sell in Japan anymore

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

The PS4/XB1 doesn't have the CPU processing power needed to decode 4K HEVC at 100 Mbps with 10-bit video. To be capable of that the game consoles would need a fixed function HEVC decoder and we only started to see CPUs/GPUs with that this year. So to add Ultra HD Blu-ray support to the PS4/XB1 would require a major hardware revision. Personally I think that is very unlikely for the XB1 but that it will eventually happen for the PS4.

They do, my phone does, my Amazon fire TV 4k does

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

You have confused next console coming out with lasting

no, that is what the discussion has been about (HW and what it can do).

Also "lasting" in any other way is immaterial and a joke.

For example last month I plaid a bit of pac-man on my Atarii and before that this summer a bit of Sonic on Sega, in that way every generation lasts for ever since nothing stop[s someone from dusting it off.

On the other hand Sony is still making and selling PS3's and they continued with the PS2 until 2013 around the time the PS4 came out http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/...-game-console/ and did the same with the PS1 http://www.gamespot.com/articles/son.../1100-6146549/ so the dates I posted would still be relevant and just call it roughly a dozen years but then you get more of the MS mess, they stopped the XB with the 360 but continued 360 production when the XBone came out.

PC gaming is not advancing?

as fast

Moore's law would disagree

who cares? you do realize that just because it is called Moor's LAWdoes not mean that it is legally or factually binding but an observation made a long time ago with a small range of predictability? Also Moor's law is about transistors/HW and not about SW/Gaming.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

Kaveri and Carrizo have Xtensa processors on a ARM AXI bus to support HEVC.

A fixed function HEVC hardware decoder for CPUs/GPUs only became possible this year so there is no way that it could be in the PS4/XB1. Note that partial GPU acceleration for HEVC is not the same thing as a fixed function HEVC hardware decoder. You can offload about 30% of HEVC decoding to a GPU that lacks a HEVC decoder which is why it is normally called "partial acceleration" and the majority still has to be done on the CPU. The CPU used in the PS4/XB1 isn't even close to sufficient and even if you doubled the number of CPU cores it still wouldn't be enough. 4K HEVC at 100 Mbps with 10-bit video takes an incredible amount of CPU power to decode and realistically the only way a current game console could do it would be with a fixed function HEVC decoder.

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

After the NDA expired Microsoft published this: See the HEVC game streaming from XB1 to windows 10. It's not supported the other way from a Windows 10 computer to XB1 as most PCs would have to use the GPU for HEVC and game performance would be crippled.
...

The problem isn't with HEVC decoding, which can be quite reasonable for 8-bit video with a low resolution and a low bit rate, but with decoding 4K HEVC at 100 Mbps with 10-bit video (10-bit HEVC basically doubles the amount of processing power needed for CPU decoding).

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

no, that is what the discussion has been about (HW and what it can do).

Also "lasting" in any other way is immaterial and a joke.

For example last month I plaid a bit of pac-man on my Atarii and before that this summer a bit of Sonic on Sega, in that way every generation lasts for ever since nothing stop[s someone from dusting it off.

On the other hand Sony is still making and selling PS3's and they continued with the PS2 until 2013 around the time the PS4 came out http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/...-game-console/ and did the same with the PS1 http://www.gamespot.com/articles/son.../1100-6146549/ so the dates I posted would still be relevant and just call it roughly a dozen years but then you get more of the MS mess, they stopped the XB with the 360 but continued 360 production when the XBone came out.



as fast

who cares? you do realize that just because it is called Moor's LAWdoes not mean that it is legally or factually binding but an observation made a long time ago with a small range of predictability? Also Moor's law is about transistors/HW and not about SW/Gaming.

Lol

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Every console generation has sold more than the previous one. Why do you think that this trend will not continue?

Nintendo would like to know where you got that info...

[Brightstar]

Originally Posted by kristoffer

Yes.

Region coding removed from Ultra HD Blu-ray spec: http://www.tweaktown.com/news/47987/...pec/index.html via @TweakTown

Thank you so much you made my day best news ever !! Now i dont have to wait years for my favorite movie to come out