4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[dvdmike]

Dts needs to get X working before anything else!

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

The problem was that few STBs supported HTML5 <video> MSE EME as it's only just been finalized or close to it and every STB will then support it as every browser will. Vidipath platforms and Digital bridge require it. So they will support CFF for UV.

So to this point the UV DRM was in the APP and less secure, less reliable with hit and miss support for features that are coming. Everything was done server side to support play anywhere anytime.

The copy/export function (digital bridge) uses SFF (Standard File Format) which is essentially CFF.

"SFF: • Will be based on ISO Base Media Format (BMF) and likely a modified form of the DECE CFF spec (with all UltraViolet components removed). Metadata: • MovieLabs Basic Metadata format will be used in SFF (as used in CFF – see the DECE Content Metadata Specification v1.0.7, Section 3 and 4) – this will provides content name, synopsis, rating etc. This Metadata will be provided by the Studio and delivered via the DBEF. • Chapter Thumbnails and Chapter points will be used in SFF (as used in CFF container metadata). This Metadata will be provided by the Studio and delivered via the DBEF. Forensic marking: • SFF Player Forensic marking is required to track content leakage. Need to incorporate a standard approach to carriage of Variants in ISOBMFF."

Kaleidescape currently uses a variation of the digital bridge now. Prior to the settlement of litigation, owners ripped their physical media to a server and could play directly from the server without the disc being present in a drive.
Now, the physical media is loaded into a vault and copied to storage. The vaults hold up to 320 discs. Playback of the bit for bit copy can be played, but only if the disc is in the vault. Playback can be to multiple players. So, it is the same as the bound copy function of the digital bridge. Currently, their is no support for the export function of the digital bridge, but perhaps in the future.

With Kaleidescape, if you have an Ultraviolet Right, you can download a bit for bit copy (i.e. Blu-ray quality) movie file from the Kaleidescape store. Currently only download is available, not streaming. EDIT: Kaleidescape does allow U V export to mobile devices.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

I want 4k, I just don't like the emperors new clothes...

Don’t know about new clothes but, HDR acquisition and production wasn’t around during the time of the Emperors however it is around during the time of Pope Francis…..http://www.live-production.tv/news/4...-ultra-hd.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

This is true but I'd wager there are FAR more SDR 4K sets out there at the moment than HDR ones...

you gotta start somewhere.

[Geoff D]

Yep, built on the back of the boneheads who never even saw HDR etc coming. Me, bitter? Nah.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yep, built on the back of the boneheads who never even saw HDR etc coming. Me, bitter? Nah.

Visionaries, not boneheads

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yep, built on the back of the boneheads who never even saw HDR etc coming. Me, bitter? Nah.

lol, well let me try to ease your pain by putting things into perspective.

Many theater owners just got done with their digital cinema conversion and a Vice President from a major theatrical projection company is already floating the idea of a second wave of Virtual Print Fee schemes for converting to HDR-capable projectors.

Technology is constantly evolving.

[jeff_rigby]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

The copy/export function (digital bridge) uses SFF (Standard File Format) which is essentially CFF.

"SFF: • Will be based on ISO Base Media Format (BMF) and likely a modified form of the DECE CFF spec (with all UltraViolet components removed). Metadata: • MovieLabs Basic Metadata format will be used in SFF (as used in CFF – see the DECE Content Metadata Specification v1.0.7, Section 3 and 4) – this will provides content name, synopsis, rating etc. This Metadata will be provided by the Studio and delivered via the DBEF. • Chapter Thumbnails and Chapter points will be used in SFF (as used in CFF container metadata). This Metadata will be provided by the Studio and delivered via the DBEF. Forensic marking: • SFF Player Forensic marking is required to track content leakage. Need to incorporate a standard approach to carriage of Variants in ISOBMFF."

Kaleidescape currently uses a variation of the digital bridge now. Prior to the settlement of litigation, owners ripped their physical media to a server and could play directly from the server without the disc being present in a drive.
Now, the physical media is loaded into a vault and copied to storage. The vaults hold up to 320 discs. Playback of the bit for bit copy can be played, but only if the disc is in the vault. Playback can be to multiple players. So, it is the same as the bound copy function of the digital bridge. Currently, their is no support for the export function of the digital bridge, but perhaps in the future.

With Kaleidescape, if you have an Ultraviolet Right, you can download a bit for bit copy (i.e. Blu-ray quality) movie file from the Kaleidescape store. Currently only download is available, not streaming. EDIT: Kaleidescape does allow U V export to mobile devices.

Thanks for the summary and I was not aware of Kaleidescape a one off home movie media server for $3999. I'm afraid that is out of my price range so I'll wait for the Panasonic UHD blu-ray proposal which requires a one time on-line check of on-disk serial number or DRM rather than a vault but serves the same purpose in allowing the UHD blu-ray copy on only one domain for one owner and keeps the UHD disk from being used for other domains.

There are two proposals for the UHD blu-ray digital bridge, one allows a copy on portable media using the SFF and the other allows streaming over the home network with the CFF. Both use the DBEF (Digital Bridge Export Function) which does not concern it'self with DRM. I'm most familiar with the in home streaming as it was mentioned in Playready ND whitepapers and the Panasonic-Sony Digital bridge proposals.

My understanding is Ultraviolet will match what is coming for UHD Blu-ray and you posted an example for a one off that does that for Ultraviolet now.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by jeff_rigby

Thanks for the summary and I was not aware of Kaleidescape a one off home movie media server for $3999. I'm afraid that is out of my price range so I'll wait for the Panasonic UHD blu-ray proposal which requires a one time on-line check of on-disk serial number or DRM rather than a vault but serves the same purpose in allowing the UHD blu-ray copy on only one domain for one owner and keeps the UHD disk from being used for other domains.

.

Yes. Currently the Kaleidescape target market is strictly high end home entertainment consumers that demand the highest quality content and they get it with bit for bit Blu-ray quality downloads from their store. They promise the same bit for bit quality with UHD BR although they may have it available via download before the equivalent UHD BR physical disc is available. We'll know in 2016 when their 4K Strato is available.

Their first server in 2002 was $27,000, so prices are more reasonable today, but, if they follow through on their plan to expand their customer base with a unit priced at under $1,000, they are going to receive a lot of attention. Perhaps they will have something like that to show at CES 2016.
http://www.cepro.com/article/print/c...ntent_4k_cost/

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Yes. Currently the Kaleidescape target market is strictly high end home entertainment consumers that demand the highest quality content and they get it with bit for bit Blu-ray quality downloads from their store. They promise the same bit for bit quality with UHD BR although they may have it available via download before the equivalent UHD BR physical disc is available. We'll know in 2016 when their 4K Strato is available.

Their first server in 2002 was $27,000, so prices are more reasonable today, but, if they follow through on their plan to expand their customer base with a unit priced at under $1,000, they are going to receive a lot of attention. Perhaps they will have something like that to show at CES 2016.
http://www.cepro.com/article/print/c...ntent_4k_cost/

The content is not cheap either £10 for doc Hollywood in SD!
Some of the HD titles are not too bad, but only 244 movies so far.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

The content is not cheap either £10 for doc Hollywood in SD!
Some of the HD titles are not too bad, but only 244 movies so far.

And 16 with Dolby Atmos. are the prices comparable with UK prices?

https://store.kaleidescape.com/collection/dolby_atmos

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

And 16 with Dolby Atmos. are the prices comparable with UK prices?

https://store.kaleidescape.com/collection/dolby_atmos

They are in places cheaper than the BD but in others more expensive San Andreas is £2 cheaper on Amazon for the disc

[raygendreau]

So, we will be seeing 800 nit tvs at CES 2016 from LG, Vizio and others. Will we ever see Dolby's dream 4000 to 10,000 nit power hungry monsters?

The UHD Alliance might want to add Energy Star certification to their standards.

I'm sure Jerry Brown and green conscious legislators in California are taking a hard look at this:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...6#post11531206

Trouble for HDR?

"As for 4K Ultra HDTVs supporting new HDR capabilities, which add picture quality improvements by expanding the contrast performance and image detail in areas ranging from dark blacks to bright whites, the NRDC said two HDR movies it tested on 4K HDR TVs caused power to increase an average of 47 percent compared to viewing the same movie on a 4K Ultra HDTV without HDR."


https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...1&postcount=15

[tvine2000]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Change of strategy for all various internet forum and website ‘video expert’ 4K Blu-ray prediction killjoys….Must now pivot shift debate from *naysaying* (it’ll never happen) to *niche saying* regarding its adoption in order to marginalize the whole technological achievement.

Ah , they do enjoy moving the goalposts further and further back for something they either personally don’t want or don’t believe in.

Yep ,every time a new format comes out , we heard all the naysaying with DVD, BD and now 4K. They were all proven wrong each time and will again with 4K and beyond. And once the format takes off they go off and hide and is never heard from again ..until the next format.
And for now ,we live happy ever after

[Dex Robinson]

Originally Posted by tvine2000

Yep ,every time a new format comes out , we heard all the naysaying with DVD, BD and now 4K. They were all proven wrong each time...

Ah...no.

The naysayers were proven right about BD. It never really took off.

Don't get me wrong. I got three BDs this week bringing the total in my collection to about 880 BDs. I love my physical media.

But BD NEVER caught on with the masses. It continues to lag far, far behind DVD and it will never surpass DVD. I'm not happy about it but it's an annoying reality that I'm forced to accept. Sometimes, naysayers are right.

BD captured a small share of the market that remains dominated by DVD. ULTRA HD Blu-ray will certainly capture a much, much smaller market than BD.

I want physical media to live for as long as I do. I love my library of movies and TV on hard copies. But blind cheer-leading doesn't change the numbers. History has not been kind to Blu-ray. The naysayers won that round fair-and-square. History will be brutal to ULTRA HD Blu-ray.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

Ah...no.

The naysayers were proven right about BD. It never really took off.

Don't get me wrong. I got three BDs this week bringing the total in my collection to about 880 BDs. I love my physical media.

But BD NEVER caught on with the masses. It continues to lag far, far behind DVD and it will never surpass DVD. I'm not happy about it but it's an annoying reality that I'm forced to accept. Sometimes, naysayers are right.

BD captured a small share of the market that remains dominated by DVD. ULTRA HD Blu-ray will certainly capture a much, much smaller market than BD.

I want physical media to live for as long as I do. I love my library of movies and TV on hard copies. But blind cheer-leading doesn't change the numbers. History has not been kind to Blu-ray. The naysayers won that round fair-and-square. History will be brutal to ULTRA HD Blu-ray.

UHD is the new laserdisc, this will be serving the highend.
There are reasons that this:



And these:




Exist, and they are both valid for their market, one is stupidly better than the other and not everyone can see that nor want to.
Does not make either invalid, but no way I would be seen dead with streaming or an iPod and iTunes downloads

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

The naysayers won that round fair-and-square.

Heck, I also remember the naysayers also saying such things as HD DVD was a superior format compared to Blu-ray. Regardless, over the years, Blu-ray has had to contend with much more competition for consumers’ entertainment time and dollar as compared to the days of couch-potatoing DVD-watching on TV, where alternative devices like cellphones, etc. and alternative screen entertainment (like facebook, twitter, instagram and other social media sites) were not in vogue at the time. So, given that, I think the format’s done respectable.

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

I want physical media to live for as long as I do. I love my library of movies and TV on hard copies. But blind cheer-leading doesn't change the numbers.

If next-gen video is not promoted on forums and websites devoted to users interested in watching premiere quality content presentation, then where else?

I’m all for occasional constructive criticism but Dex, the overall trend/tone of your *contributions* in toto in these threads about Ultra HD Blu-ray seems to be akin to *I beat my wife because she's a loser but…..I really do love her….heck, I go to work every day and bring home the bacon to support her*.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

Does not make either invalid, but no way I would be seen dead with streaming or an iPod and iTunes downloads

Good point with the pics. Plus, I'm now liking the interpersonal skills.

Anyway, there is one little known about (by hobbyists), but nevertheless cool app with an iPad. It’s called ‘ColorStream’ and when DPs/Directors are e.g. 3,000 miles away during a movie shoot it allows them to quickly communicate to the colorist the look they’re desiring for the scene by using images they take with an iPad. See More here….https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/colo...843548705?mt=8

[DVD Polizei]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Heck, I also remember the naysayers also saying such things as HD DVD was a superior format compared to Blu-ray. Regardless, over the years, Blu-ray has had to contend with much more competition for consumers’ entertainment time and dollar as compared to the days of couch-potatoing DVD-watching on TV, where alternative devices like cellphones, etc. and alternative screen entertainment (like facebook, twitter, instagram and other social media sites) were not in vogue at the time. So, given that, I think the format’s done respectable.

I give Blu-ray a C-.

It's the only choice in town, so when you have no competition, why strive for quality. How can you say Blu-ray has done well when no other competitor has been allowed into the market.

HD DVD would have done just fine, and would not have used a crappy-ass layer of Java, screwing up Blu-ray players on a consistent basis.

You wouldn't have needed updates just to play a movie. But Sony wanted an extra layer of protection from copying.

And who the F**K uses BD-Live, anyway?

Additionally, studios haven't even taken advantage of the damn Blu-ray format's storage capacity. We have extras MISSING and COMPLETELY DISREGARDED from those who put releases on the Blu-ray format.

How many DVD-only shows have been put on Blu-ray for consumer convenience?

I also thought Blu-ray was supposed to be an about-face for quality?

Yeah, right.

Most movies should be at the 30Mbps rate, and I see routinely they are at 18Mbps. Color gradients of shadows and solid colors are still seen...just like DVD. BD-25 discs are preferred over BD-50 discs.

Even though consumers now have an average of 3x the average television size, the quality of Blu-ray has not caught up with them.

Yeah, bring on 4K. You better keep your Blu-rays...and your DVDs...because the same material you saw there more than likely will NOT be on your super fancy awesome 4K disc.

This game of better quality is slowly eating itself to the point of being unsustainable, and this is not because of lack of consumer interest...but the lack and apathetic behavior of movie studios not giving consumers what they want in a release.

Consumers want a definitive release.

Movie studios want you to continually upgrade your physical collection.

[KRW1]

I didn't really think we'd still be talking about bluray in 2015/6 anyway, so just for sticking around it's a winner.

I was told that we'd all be buying downloads by about 2013 and bluray was released just as physical media was about to go obsolete so would never be more than a niche format with very few releases and certainly no B-movie or cult movies would be released on the format. Sounds familiar.