4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[Wendell R. Breland]

Seems to be a lot of talk and little action by the content providers.

Watched “Ant Man” last night on BD and the PQ was top notch. For the most part it was done using tripods, tracks & dolly and some Steadicam. Unfortunately it has a 2K DI finish even tho it had 2.8K and 3.4K sources. 3D was post process.

Here’s what really irks me, the title has a Dolby Atmos mix but the BD has a DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Seems to be a lot of talk and little action by the content providers.

Watched “Ant Man” last night on BD and the PQ was top notch. For the most part it was done using tripods, tracks & dolly and some Steadicam. Unfortunately it has a 2K DI finish even tho it had 2.8K and 3.4K sources. 3D was post process.

Here’s what really irks me, the title has a Dolby Atmos mix but the BD has a DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1

Disney and Fox will not be releasing immersive audio encoded titles until UHD Blu-ray.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

We're considering a second TV Shootout evaluation for the current 2015-16 TVs that were in our June 25-26 2015 Shootout, but this one will be focused on HDR, P3 color, 10-bit and PQ digital gamma.

We're waiting for Ultra HD BD and a few good HDR titles as well as a few needed new test patterns. So if all goes as planned this will come to fruition early February 2016.

If we can't get this put together then we'll default to our 2016 annual TV Shootout that will likely be the summer of 2016 and it will be with the new 2016 flagship TVs.

Hope you can join us!

-Robert

So, Robert you are an authorized Kaleidescape dealer. Kaleidescape HD downloads are bit for bit blu-ray quality with lossless audio codecs (Atmos, DTS-X, DTS HD MA, Dolby TrueHD). The Strato coming in early 1st quarter 2016 will play UHD HDR BR bit for bit downloads from the K-store.

Kaleidescape Strato 4K Ultra HD Movie Player - YouTube

Any chance that you might include a head to head comparison between physical UHD HDR disc and UHD HDR Kaleidescape download during a 2016 display shoot out? Seems to me Kaleidescape would want to participate in that.

I’m surprised that you never commented on Kaleidescape selecting the LG 65EG9500 OLED to showcase the Strato at CEDIA 2015.

@pentonman. While sales of OLED displays are good and conservative forecasts of the compound annual growth rate (CAGR) are around 28% through 2020; it would be shortsighted for the UHD Alliance to withhold HDR Premium qualification from OLED in 2016. A 28% growth rate through 2020 would give OLED a 10% share of the 4K display market.

http://press.ihs.com/press-release/t...-2020-ihs-says

Consumer reaction to HDR is difficult to predict at this point and will probably remain so until 2017.

[Robert Zohn]

ray, yes we are authorized Kaleidescape dealers and our store demo unit has a lot of content loaded. It's connected to our 8x24 matrix switch and we demo it often across our TV Shootout wall and in our dedicated store demo theater.

We also have 3 DIRECTV receivers, 3 OPPO BD players and 2 4K media servers so any combination of sources can be displayed on any or all of the displays.

From what we have seen on BD and Kaleidescape with the same titles the image and audio look and sound performance is the same. However, we have not tried Dolby Atmos.

We will have Kaleidescape's new 4K Strato along with whatever Ultra HD BD players are available for our upcoming 4K, HDR, WCG, 10-bit TV Shootout evaluation event.

Very serious fun for very serious a/v enthusiasts.

-Robert

[KRW1]

4k has gone mainstream. Over the years, I've seen many dumped HD and nearly HD TVs down by the bins in our apartment building but tonight I've just seen the first 4k TV dumped down there. I might attempt to salvage it later. It looks like a first gen Samsung about 55".

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

@pentonman. While sales of OLED displays are good and conservative forecasts of the compound annual growth rate (CAGR) are around 28% through 2020; it would be shortsighted for the UHD Alliance to withhold HDR Premium qualification from OLED in 2016....

don't worry about myopia.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

ray, yes we are authorized Kaleidescape dealers and our store demo unit has a lot of content loaded. It's connected to our 8x24 matrix switch and we demo it often across our TV Shootout wall and in our dedicated store demo theater.

We also have 3 DIRECTV receivers, 3 OPPO BD players and 2 4K media servers so any combination of sources can be displayed on any or all of the displays.

From what we have seen on BD and Kaleidescape with the same titles the image and audio look and sound performance is the same. However, we have not tried Dolby Atmos.

We will have Kaleidescape's new 4K Strato along with whatever Ultra HD BD players are available for our upcoming 4K, HDR, WCG, 10-bit TV Shootout evaluation event.

Very serious fun for very serious a/v enthusiasts.

-Robert

Very serious fun, indeed!

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

don't worry about myopia.

I'm not worried about your opia, just theirs.

[bailey1987]

Here's something:

http://www.indiantelevision.com/tech...cations-151212

MUMBAI: Technicolor is accelerating content production that is compliant with the Ultra HD displays and content specifications after the UHD Alliance’s released specifications for the same.

[jmy2469]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

We're considering a second TV Shootout evaluation for the current 2015-16 TVs that were in our June 25-26 2015 Shootout, but this one will be focused on HDR, P3 color, 10-bit and PQ digital gamma.

We're waiting for Ultra HD BD and a few good HDR titles as well as a few needed new test patterns. So if all goes as planned this will come to fruition early February 2016.

If we can't get this put together then we'll default to our 2016 annual TV Shootout that will likely be the summer of 2016 and it will be with the new 2016 flagship TVs.

Hope you can join us!

-Robert

Always look forward to the Shootout, cant make it to NY,I am in FL,but I do follow it online. Robert, when do you expect the new 2016 sets to hit the market? I am waiting until CES to see what is coming out before I purchase anything.

[Robert Zohn]

Typically we begin seeing new models showing up as follows:

- Smaller screen sized of the entry to mid tier series launch late March - April. Larger screen sizes in the same category begin to show up in May.

- Smaller screen sizes for the flagship series typically begin shipping June - August with larger screen sizes showing up *July - August.

*Some manufacturers top series launch even later.

The day before CES exhibits open we have the manufacturers schedule "Press Only" preview events and typically they announce the launch dates.

-Robert

[dvdmike]

Nonway I miss another Sony range change

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

However, we NEED the masses to ensure an ongoing supply of varied titles.

To further the sports analogy...I'm a hot-rodder. The reason that I have access to Chevy big block V8 engines is NOT because General Motors wants to service a few thousand enthusiasts. The reason I can get a big block is because, many years ago, some shoe salesman decided he needed an Impala station wagon to take his family to Cypress Gardens.

In other words, the masses provided the overall market in which the enthusiast could exist.

We need the masses to guarantee that production equipment is purchased and that productions lines can operate at reasonable volume and profit. We need multiple makers producing players in order to make them affordable...Samsung and Panasonic will have us ALL (themselves included) over barrel if only a limited number of people buy into this format.

My personal reality is that I will almost certainly "buy into" UHD BD. I've bought into every other format. I still have my dads old Betamax player and I have an HD DVD player squirreled away. My next TV will be 4K and, since it will be backward compatible, I'll buy a UHD BD player (at a reasonable price). But I have serious doubts about titles. I am an enthusiast. 95% of my BD purchases are catalogue titles. If this format lands with a thud, who's going to put money into pressing those 1950's, 60's and foreign films that I buy?

So I may well end up with a full UHD BD home theater...and 5 UHD Blu-ray Discs (of the discs proposed so far, I wouldn't pay $2.00 for all of them put together).

Your analogy does not work. In a motor the big bucks go into making the motor and so it needs mass market or it gets ridiculously expensive very fast (for example you might need to re-tool the assembly line more often, you will need to buy parts in smaller quantities at a higher price.....). In a movie the big bucks are content related (making the film, advertising the film) and that is distributed amongst every media so it does not matter if Joe watches it on DVD, BD, UHD BD, Vudu, Netflix....

[jmy2469]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Typically we begin seeing new models showing up as follows:

- Smaller screen sized of the entry to mid tier series launch late March - April. Larger screen sizes in the same category begin to show up in May.

- Smaller screen sizes for the flagship series typically begin shipping June - August with larger screen sizes showing up *July - August.

*Some manufacturers top series launch even later.

The day before CES exhibits open we have the manufacturers schedule "Press Only" preview events and typically they announce the launch dates.

-Robert

Thanks for the info Robert. I am interested in Sony's Flagship model for 2016. I did see that the press conference for Sony at CES is on January 5th at 8pm EST, I'll be watching. CES can't get here soon enough.

[Dex Robinson]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

...In a movie the big bucks are content related (making the film, advertising the film) and that is distributed amongst every media so it does not matter if Joe watches it on DVD, BD, UHD BD, Vudu, Netflix....

And that's exactly why my analogy works.

Don't forget the title of this thread: "4k Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming Late 2015".

If Joe watches 4k content of VUDU, Netflix, Downloads or whatever, then producers will be perfectly happy to make money through those venues.

Physical media requires a comparitvely more involved and expensive chain of entities with prodiction lines for discs, art work, and packaging...plus distributors, transportation and retailers. Everything from plastic resin and janitors to semi-trailers is part of the chain.

If Universal can make money providing a digital file to a service that will sell it on their behalf, they'll be happily taking the money with little risk.

In order for us to get physical discs, somebody has to make the decision to buy production equipment...and they need to have that production equipment running for more than one shift. There needs to be a big, PROFITABLE demand for anybody to invest in the production and distribution of physical media. I would love to see XANADU on UHD BD...but that won't happen unless Universal decides that they can sell enough copies of JURASSIC WORLD and MINIONS. If the big titles can't establish a solid market, then the catalogue buyers will be SOL.

So yeah, it DOES matter how Joe watches movies...because if Joe is watching on Netflix, he's not going to convince a company to invest in a UHD BD production line.

[Opips3]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Seems to be a lot of talk and little action by the content providers.

Watched “Ant Man” last night on BD and the PQ was top notch. For the most part it was done using tripods, tracks & dolly and some Steadicam. Unfortunately it has a 2K DI finish even tho it had 2.8K and 3.4K sources. 3D was post process.

Here’s what really irks me, the title has a Dolby Atmos mix but the BD has a DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1

I understand. You want Dolby Atmos on blu-ray but Studio decide to want standard HD audio. It's rare.

UltraHD disc will everyone on Dolby Atmos or DTS-X.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

...what Penton often refers to as the 'trim pass'.

With regards to wordage, as an aside, an Ultra HD forum glossary produced by the organization (http://ultrahdforum.org/) will be published soon.

[Robert Zohn]

Originally Posted by jmy2469

Thanks for the info Robert. I am interested in Sony's Flagship model for 2016. I did see that the press conference for Sony at CES is on January 5th at 8pm EST, I'll be watching. CES can't get here soon enough.

Thanks, Sony was kind enough to invite me to attend the Press Conference! I'll be reporting on Blu-ray.com what we learn. I also have personal meetings to review the 2016 products in Sony's private suite.

More to come...

-Robert

[jmy2469]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Thanks, Sony was kind enough to invite me to attend the Press Conference! I'll be reporting on Blu-ray.com what we learn. I also have personal meeting to review the 2016 products in Sony's private suite.

More to come...

-Robert

That is great Robert! I'll keep my eyes open to see what you post here.

[raygendreau]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

ray, if 15 f-stops is accepted as the requirement for "Premium" HDR, then how or why would it matter if you count from peak luminance or MLL? Actually, mathematically and physically it makes no difference whatsoever.

F-stops relates to the amount of light that passes through and the higher the f-stop value the less light that passes through. Every single f-stop in numeric value cuts the light output in half, conversely every lower valued f-stop increases the light by the multiple of x2.

So in photography on a camera lens f11 delivers 1/2 of the passing through the lens than the next larger lens aperture, called f8. And it simply does not matter which direction you measure the light so starting from MLL to increasing the light to starting at the peak luminance and gradually reducing the f-stops give you exactly the same results.

What does matter is how low the light output can go on the display as our vision is more sensitive to low light and further high peak luminance is uncomfortable in low ambient light viewing. So for HDR mapped to OLEDs f-stop range will perform far better than any LCD TV that can produce higher light output and unfortunately, higher MLL.

If you consider the population of the HDR Alliance you may be able to see why LG may have trouble getting OLED ranked as a "Premium" HDR display.

-Robert

Here is Flatpanels take on the UHD Alliance Premium HDR Spec.:

"It is unclear whether high-end TVs from 2015 will be able to meet the requirements, but some 2016 TVs likely will. We do not know the specifications yet but our talks with the UHD Alliance suggest that we can expect something along the lines of 4K resolution, HDR (only OLEDs with higher brightness and LCDs with full local dimming), accurate color reproduce, and full DCI P3 color space coverage.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...m22A2LbSR4X.99

Panasonic is a member of the Alliance and they will surely support LG's position on HDR premium certification for OLED.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

HDR premium certification for OLED.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=4585
^ next time I’ll add another wink for reassurance.