4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[bruceames]

From The Bits:

Ultra HD Blu-ray is also going to include some optional spec capabilities, the implementation of which will be up to both hardware and software manufactures. One of these will be Digital Extension or Digital Bridge, which (if and when employed) could allow consumers to securely move and copy movie content from the UHD-BD discs to their own hard drives and to mobile devices. The goal is to make the whole “digital copy” process much easier on Ultra HD Blu-ray than it is today on existing Blu-ray and DVD.

I'm kind of curious, "move and copy movie content." How would this work if 4K were a non-digital purchase?

[Jimmy Smith]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I agree re: Star Wars. Fox AND Disney are part of the UHD Alliance so there are no issues with rights and all that bollocks. .

Great I can't wait for Disney to release a few titles at an inflated price and when they don't sell a billion copies withdraw their support

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

From The Bits:



I'm kind of curious, "move and copy movie content." How would this work if 4K were a non-digital purchase?

There would probably be a necessary, BDA approved software player or smart device app player that would be heavily encrypted. It would allow you to rip the movie off the disc, but keep it "contained" to that program, so ripping the data for distribution to a home network device much harder. That is unless this program could be expanded to use in home networking applications kind of like the Kaleidoscope system, but you use your own hard drives to store the movies. The PC or Apple computer software could have a feature to then make a more compressed file to transfer to your smart device for playback.

I would think you would have to keep all the damn previews and FBI warnings, etc. etc. (that piss us all off) just like the disc versions.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Great I can't wait for Disney to release a few titles at an inflated price and when they don't sell a billion copies withdraw their support

The studios cannot make these discs much more expensive than regular Blu-ray... they'd start to move toward Laserdisc prices that kept the format a very, very niche, almost exclusive home video medium. But there wouldn't be the super-deluxe, film school in a box content like with many big LD releases.

If they don't phase out DVD's now, they're idiots. Three disc formats at once???

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

The studios cannot make these discs much more expensive than regular Blu-ray... they'd start to move toward Laserdisc prices that kept the format a very, very niche, almost exclusive home video medium. But there wouldn't be the super-deluxe, film school in a box content like with many big LD releases.

If they don't phase out DVD's now, they're idiots. Three disc formats at once???

It will be interesting to see how that shapes out and supporting three physical formats seems excessive, but there are still a lot of people who still use DVD and studios are probably afraid to pull the plug and lose money. In other words, the rentals and sales of DVD still might outweigh the costs of supporting it. I still actually rent movies from Family Video and every time I go in there so many people are renting DVD still.

[JediFonger]

love how much ignorance there is even in this thread about film vs. digital lolz

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

There would probably be a necessary, BDA approved software player or smart device app player that would be heavily encrypted. It would allow you to rip the movie off the disc, but keep it "contained" to that program, so ripping the data for distribution to a home network device much harder. That is unless this program could be expanded to use in home networking applications kind of like the Kaleidoscope system, but you use your own hard drives to store the movies. The PC or Apple computer software could have a feature to then make a more compressed file to transfer to your smart device for playback.

I would think you would have to keep all the damn previews and FBI warnings, etc. etc. (that piss us all off) just like the disc versions.

Yes but in order to do that the disc that you copy from needs to be registered to a certain account, so that you can't lend out the disc to others to copy on to their secure BDA-approved player. You probably won't be able to sell it either, if it is tied to your account. Otherwise you could just copy the movie and sell it.

But then if the sale was a true disc purchase, then it would be protected by First Sale and you will be allowed to sell it or give to someone else. I don't see how a disc originally purchased with First Sale protection could be converted to one where you would not be allowed to sell it because you are making it linked to a digital delivery device.

It's just that the whole concept of having it "as an option" raises a concern to me that all disc purchases will be digital-based and tied to the owner's account with no resale rights. Hopefully I'm reading into this too much.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by JediFonger

love how much ignorance there is even in this thread about film vs. digital lolz

Well, perhaps so with regards to some here having strong HD DVD advocacy roots, but I think for the loyal old timers here, we can humbly hold our own as to being proficient in some film vs. digital topics ranging from acquisition to post production. For example, from past pages…

Originally Posted by singhcr

What color space/bit depth is usually used for film scanning and eventual DI creation for restored or new movies?

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Usually? I’d say, with a project in which a facility scans 35mm film at ‘4K’ (which is actually somewhat misleading because the Northlight 2 has an 8K CCD array which produces 4K files), they’ll output at 10bit log DPX.

Now, best practice that some cutting edge facilities (which have the storage capacity) follow? Scan the OCN and output at 16bit DPX. From there, uncorrected content intended for theatrical presentation is graded in DCI P3 space and for theatrical deliverables, P3 is converted to XYZ color space (12 bit pixel depth). For home deliverables (like for instance HD Blu-rays), I’ve already posted the color management pipeline explaining about the ODT and trim pass even revealing typical booking times reserved by Producers for the process here...https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...im#post9623181

Regarding best practice for a DI workflow? That be 16 bit OpenEXR ACES…http://www.oscars.org/science-techno...ESOverview.pdf starting from 16bit RAW digital camera imagery, which, to give a heads-up to theater goers, was employed on Dolphin Tale 2 (Technicolor being the color grading facility) albeit in 2K DCP deliverable.

Jedi, would you care to enlighten as to differences between going from ACES 0.7.1 to the now current 1.0 ?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Lyris

Aaack, Here is the link I meant to post! Apologies.
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/uhd-bd-201501053979.htm

Not bad David. Now, what have you learned regarding ULTRA HD BLU-RAY since having written that piece? By ‘learned’, I mean facts, be they ‘unofficial’ or ‘official’….doesn’t matter, but please no assumptions nor suppositions.

Hint: think mandatory and optional features. Also, be forewarned, as I stop reading anyone’s posts once they say…’it is my understanding’ because often what follows is nothing but speculative rambling noise.

[Kirsty_Mc]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

If they don't phase out DVD's now, they're idiots. Three disc formats at once???

Yes but this is different from the past (ie. Laserdisc vs CED) as the technology is upwardly compatible. A BD player will play DVD and it's almost certain a 4K BD player will play 1080P BDs and DVDs, so to a large extent they are part of the same ecosystem. I don't see DVD going away any time soon. It's been a long time since I bought one, I wouldn't advise buying one where a BD is available, but I dont begrudge anyone buying one if it fits their budget or expectations.

[KRW1]

DVD is so cheap it'll be around forever. There are millions and millions of players out there, all over the world. I'll still pick one up if I'm desperate to see something and there's no other way.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I was add an edit to my post but here's as good a place as any: if the studios are afraid of losing their double dip percentages by fronting up their biggest catalogue titles in 4K, then they can always release a HDR/Atmos version further along the line.

The double dip potential for Star Wars writes itself due to the timing.

Original Trilogy and new one for 2016/7

Original Trilogy and Prequel Trilogy set for 2018 for the second film.

Box set with all 9 films in around 2022!

Deluxe set with all 9 films and spin offs etc. Whenever.

Then we'll be somewhere towards 8k and I'll probably be too old to care "Ultra HD is good enough for most, 8k BD will be dead in the water, or a niche within a niche, and, anyway, we'll all be streaming by then as internet speeds will be up to scratch and you'll need a new telly to get the benefit, most people are content with a 120 inch set and won't have the room for a 200 inch set" is the sort of thing I'm likely to say, I warn you now.

[Selaboc]

Originally Posted by KRW1

DVD is so cheap it'll be around forever. There are millions and millions of players out there, all over the world. I'll still pick one up if I'm desperate to see something and there's no other way.

Indeed, and least we forget, there are still a large number of TV shows and movies that are only available on DVD - and some of those were shot on SD video tape and thus are not capable of native HD resolutions and thus wouldn't benefit greatly from a BD release.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Not bad David. Now, what have you learned regarding ULTRA HD BLU-RAY since having written that piece? By ‘learned’, I mean facts, be they ‘unofficial’ or ‘official’….doesn’t matter, but please no assumptions nor suppositions.

Hint: think mandatory and optional features....

Perhaps I didn’t make myself clear. I’m referring in regards to alternative methods of showing HDR vis-à-vis the ULTRA HD BLU-RAY spec. This should be ‘unembargoed’ information by now.

You’re still at the show, correct? Talk to the right people for enlightenment.

[JohnAV]

This tidbit from the Panasonic 4K display CX850 article is interesting

As for 3D, we believe the set will have active 3D technology with RF glasses like last year's sets. However, engineers at the Panasonic booth were unclear as to whether native 4K 3D content would be supported. Since 3D capability is not part of the new Ultra HD Blu-ray spec, this may not be cricially important. Panasonic reps did confirm that legacy 1080p Blu-ray 3D (and other 3D High Definition sources) would be supported. More details on the CX850's specific features and capabilities (as well as pricing and availability) are expected later this year.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

This tidbit from the Panasonic 4K display CX850 article is interesting

The MVC subset (used for 3D encoding) for H.265 has not been finalized and ratified by MPEG. It may be added later on just as it was for the H.264 codec and regular Blu-ray.

However, there is far less industry enthusiasm for 3D as there once was. It's 2D 4k, 10 bit, HDR, HFR, a wider color gamut, object based 3D surround, etc. etc. now. You know, improved tech stuff that doesn't give many people a splitting headache and eye strain.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Yes but in order to do that the disc that you copy from needs to be registered to a certain account, so that you can't lend out the disc to others to copy on to their secure BDA-approved player. You probably won't be able to sell it either, if it is tied to your account. Otherwise you could just copy the movie and sell it.

But then if the sale was a true disc purchase, then it would be protected by First Sale and you will be allowed to sell it or give to someone else. I don't see how a disc originally purchased with First Sale protection could be converted to one where you would not be allowed to sell it because you are making it linked to a digital delivery device.

It's just that the whole concept of having it "as an option" raises a concern to me that all disc purchases will be digital-based and tied to the owner's account with no resale rights. Hopefully I'm reading into this too much.

All of that sounds very similar to Xbox One's original proposed system. If 4K BD has any sort of online DRM then I will never support it.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

All of that sounds very similar to Xbox One's original proposed system. If 4K BD has any sort of online DRM then I will never support it.

Same here.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

It's just that the whole concept of having it "as an option" raises a concern to me that all disc purchases will be digital-based and tied to the owner's account with no resale rights. Hopefully I'm reading into this too much.

I think after what happened with AACS managed copy it is reasonable to be skeptical about any optional DRM system that can allow people to copy an entire disc onto their computers.

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

I would think you would have to keep all the damn previews and FBI warnings, etc. etc. (that piss us all off) just like the disc versions.

If the studios would get rid of that kind of stuff with Ultra HD Blu-ray, or at least let people skip it, that would generate a tremendous amount of goodwill for the format.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I’m referring in regards to alternative methods of showing HDR vis-à-vis the ULTRA HD BLU-RAY spec. This should be ‘unembargoed’ information by now.

The Hollywood Reporter has mentioned that Ultra HD Blu-ray will have a mandatory HDR system that is based on an open standard (my guess would be the HDR system defined in HEVC) and two optional HDR systems (Dolby Vision and Philips HDR).

[Richard Paul]

Scott Wilkinson reported from CES that the UHD Alliance is working on a certification program and that the minimum requirements would be the "P3/DCI color gamut, 10-bit color, 1000 nits of peak brightness, and PQ gamma (aka SMPTE ST 2084)". SMPTE ST 2084 is the HDR system that was defined in HEVC.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul;10255850[URL="http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/behind-screen/ces-ultra-hd-blu-ray-761728"

The Hollywood Reporter has mentioned that Ultra HD Blu-ray[/URL] will have a mandatory HDR system that is based on an open standard (my guess would be the HDR system defined in HEVC) and two optional HDR systems (Dolby Vision and Philips HDR).

My, my, Carolyn is indeed quick on the draw! I tried to help you out there David (lyris) but, you snooze, you lose.

P.S.
Reminds me Richard before I forget, since I recall you’ve become a connoisseur of quality show/conference/retreats like the one which I’ve had the pleasure of for years (including thee ‘ol softball games) - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...pa#post9356437

Head’s up to next month’s annual retreat, Carolyn is scheduled to moderate the ICG panel which follows the 'Extended Color Gamut: What Do Artists Need?' panel. Don’t miss it…or else don’t miss reading about it from one of the reporters covering.